isitsuby Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 The cheapest leagcy quote I have is about $2000 more than the cheapest Camry quote. I like the Suby better because it will help in winter, but I am having a hard time justifying a $2000 premium for it. My friend's Camry with winter tires does pretty well in the Winter, perhaps not as well as a suby. According to Car and Driver, the depreciation of a Camry is $1,385 while that of a Legacy is $2,875. But auto trader showed similar prices after a quick scan. Has anyone faced a similar dilemma? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttnio Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Car shopping is lots of fun....isn't it?....I had fun shopping rather than worrying about a dilemma...no regression....all the best on your choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Motion Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 FWD vs AWD? FWD are boring... and think how often do u see a LGT vs how often do you see a camry? (was that a camry just passed by as I was typing this, and as you are reading this?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulse Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Have you been able to drive both? IMHO the difference in feel and the added excitment of the AWD Legacy is easily worth the +2k price premium. This is before taking into consideration standard things NOT on the Camry things like AWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irimis Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Ok, you came to LegacyGT.com and asked if the Legacy is worth 2k more. We are going to say yes. Drive both cars and see what you like. The AWD alone is worth the extra 2k IMO. Its an amazing system in weather and very fun to drive. I remember reading that Subarus were moving up in resale value, even compared it to Honda. Here. So maybe what you read is a little older. Esp with all the issues Toyota dealt with on recalls they took a big hit. Personally not a fan of the new body style as it kind of looks like a Camry, but if I have to pick between the two I'd go with Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Thanks for the responses. Impulse: I have driven both, and I must say the Camry surprised me in the cornering while the suby was slightly poorer than expected. Must note though that I had expected suby to handle much better than the "boring" Camry. In the end I was disappointed to see they handled about the same on the pavement. The plus I see in Suby is that it will likely deal with the snow much better (and be less common, @Drift , but cost $2000 more. For this car, I am want something trouble free, and good for my family. If I can afford a thrill ride sometime in the future, I will go to the miata, or wrx/sti, or a 911 (if my stock portfolio does really well:). So I am unsure, if as a family car, is it the Legacy that I should get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Base model vs Base model...get the camry. will hold its value about the same... If you get tons of snow...get the subie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Base model vs Base model...get the camry. will hold its value about the same... If you get tons of snow...get the subie... Sounds sensible. We do get lots of snow in eastern Canada, but its pretty flat as compared to CO. Snow tires are a must on both, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Not on the subie I drove all winter on summer performance tires and we get 100+ inches...and I drive a pass from 6k to 10k every day..... Did I have to be more careful? yes....I will put all seasons on this winter... The subies handle awesome in snow and ice.... My 07 accord w/ snow tires handled okay...but not as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-WDC Spec B Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 isitsuby talk to both your dealers. tell them you are stuck between and see what they will offer you. I say the suby since you are in canada but if you get a great deal on the camry get it. both cars are build in the subie plant in Indiana (i think for the canadian models too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 isitsuby, consider that the Subaru will be safer, not only because of full-time awd and because, well, it ranks at the top of safety picks, but it won't try to kill your family by taking off on it's own You can't put a price on that. So, how do you think I did? Would I make a good sleazy salesguy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 If you feel like crashing into walls when your accel pedal gets stuck, then go ahead and get the Camry. There are many online comparsion tools where you can compare between the two. While the Legacy may be more expensive I can say that the Subaru will give you a better return when you go to trade it in. The camry does not hold its resale as well as the Legacy. And dollar for dollar the Legacy is a much better value for your money. But read reviews of both, do side-byside comparisons. While driving helps, it's tough to say which car handles better. You feeling of handling could be way different from someone else. In addition an awd vehicle will drive differently than a fwd. So if you are driving the legacy the same way as the camry, you may not see the differences. Also, if these are used, they may have had crappy tires put on one or the other. I will say though, the chances of you loving the legacy down the road are probably MUCH higher than the Camry. I've never heard anyone say they LOVE their camry, but have seen many people (including myself) say they love their legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dntk Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I drove the base model Legacy and i was very disappointed with it, however like you said you are going for safety/family more than thrills, and you cant go wrong with the Legacy in that respect, if you ever read about the people who get into accedents in the Legacy everyone always say they made it out just fine. Also I gots a little story a friend of mine told me about her driving in a WRX, well her friend who was driving took a corner to fast hit slide off the road, crashed into something (cant remember what, cliff side, pole, tree) something solid, but it hit the quarter panel and didnt set off the airbags, after that they tumbled down a cliff into a lake, due the frontal impact not being directly head on the airbags did not deploy, since the car is designed to move the impact away from the passengers both where still conscious, and where able to climb out of the car and swim to shore. She is very thankful to Subaru about how they build there cars. Now with that being said i cannot validate that this really happened but this person was not known to lie and its the story that was told to me. also, with the Toyota gas pedal fiasco, people are going to look down on toyota for some time now and could make it difficult to sell in the future or hurt trade in values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-WDC Spec B Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 oh yes safety... then go with a legacy... i parked my wrx in a tree oneday after this guy lost control of his car and spun into my lane.... after then i really do trust subaru with my life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Saftey wise, all of the family sedan class has done a good job recently. They all have traction, stability, EBD. @Verwilderd: I would agree about loving the Suby if it handled much better, or had tubro etc. But the base model doesn't seem to have much more than AWD in addition to what a Camry has. So if I was to buy it I would have to justify it to myself like: AWD = $2000 @Verwilderd: I agree that handling may be a bit subjective. However, C & D and Motortrend both have reviews of the drives and have commented that the Legacy handling is average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 The 2.5i is simply not configured to be a handler since it tries to go for the average class. When you put it like that, it is hard to justify the extra two thousand. Not to mention that, depending on how long you keep the car, you are potentially looking at some increased maintenance expense. The Camry doesn't have differentials that are worth replacing the fluid for, while the Subie does. Also, a spark plug job on the Boxer motor, unless I am completely wrong, is more expensive than on other more straight-forward engines. Not out of this world expenses, but something to keep in mind nevertheless. Sounds like you're just about the average buyer and if the awd difference is not a deal-breaker for you, then by all means go with the Camry. To be perfectly honest I am a bit surprised you considered the Legacy in the first place. It is not without reason that Subaru is a niche brand and I think your research and point of view thoroughly shows it. Later edit: maybe you simply need to shop around some more? I looked on the US sites and the MSRP between base Camry and 2.5i is off by only a few hundred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 at those prices I would probably go with the camry but if you like the AWD you should at least go to the subaru dealership and give it a try. Ill outline it below... Put them on the spot. A car salesman is working off ABC - Always Be Closing. They will try to get you to subliminally "commit" and say "yes" as much as possible during your experience in the dealership. If they feel you are just playing them to lower the price so you can go back to Toyota and get a better price there, then they are less likely to work with you You have to look at the two cars and ask yourself how much more you would really be willing to pay for the AWD and whatever other little things the subaru may have over the Camry. For the sake of explanation, lets say that you would be willing to pay 1000 extra to get the Legacy instead of the Camry. Go to the subaru dealership, explane the price disparency between the two cars and that you cant justify paying 2k more for AWD. After this before they get into talking to you about this and that, say the magic words. (for this example you said you would take the subaru for 1000 more than the camry price whatever that may be) "If you could get the Subaru price down to 500 over the camry price I would take the subaru home today" To any salesman who knows anything thats a sign that they are a serious buyer. Car sales is all about finding out somebodys hotbutton issue and then satisfying it. The numbers in the example are insignificant its the language you use thats important. figure out what you want and decide if its true then go in there and tell them if they can do what you want then YOU WANT TO BUY THE CAR. Now dont put all your cards on the table at once, leave some room for renegotiation. They will most likely come back out and say something like "i cant do it for 500 more, but I can do it for 1200 more" then you go back and say no thats too much but could you do it for 800 more. This may go back and forth a few times and you want to give yourself room to work with. Sometimes depending on how much they were holding in the car they may just come back and say OK its a deal and you get it for 500 more. really you should start with if you can get it for the same price as the Camry I will buy it and go from there. You have to put it into your own words but hopefully that helps you squeak what you want out of the subaru dealer and gets you that AWD for less. (I used to sell cars if you didnt already figure that out FYI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 the car they may just come back and say OK its a deal and you get it for 500 more. A good salesman would never do that..... But I agree....give a look at the accords....I have some 09s on my lot that are pretty nice...I have owned several accords and have had no problems w/ their quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTATV Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 A good salesman would never do that..... nope a good salesman won't but wouldn't you agree a verbal "comitment" generally makes a manages and salesman more willing to negotiate and try to find a happy medium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguyco Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 yes...god if i could only get a reasonable verbal committment from 25% of my customers I could make more money.... It is amazing to me how many are afraid to commit at a reasonable amount.... I knew what you meant....I took that quote a little bit out of context to make a point...and also to help me vent a little about my shitty day;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitsuby Posted May 22, 2010 Author Share Posted May 22, 2010 @fishbone: I agree if you are offering something better (AWD) but list at 1% above others, but actually cost 7% more than others then you are likely to be a niche. I am happy to go upto a $1000 more than the Camry for the AWD. But at $2000 more, I am very hesitant. @CTATV: Thanks for the great Tips. I did not see your post last night, but I did go to a Suby dealer (not the primary one I have been talking to) to see the best price he could offer me. What's funny is that I went in with pretty much the line you suggest. I went in saying that I like your Car better than Camry, but not 2000 better. Here are the numbers that I have been quoted as the best quote for the Camry. I want you to come close to that number so I can justify the purchase to myself. Of course the salesman didn't even come to within 2000. He had one car left in his lot. The reasons seems simple. The 2010s seems to have sold well. The car pricing report I ordered, shows that Camry wholesale price is about 500 less than Legacy and Toyota is offering 2000 cash rebate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 How often do you have to get to work 8am sharp (or somewhere else you have to get no matter what) when there's lots of snow on the ground? Winter tires are nice, but with just one tire trying to move you - might not be enough. If you can sit out the worst before the streets are plowed - awd in a base model isn't worth it IMO. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 yes...god if i could only get a reasonable verbal committment from 25% of my customers I could make more money.... It is amazing to me how many are afraid to commit at a reasonable amount.... I knew what you meant....I took that quote a little bit out of context to make a point...and also to help me vent a little about my shitty day;) Having a bad day at the dealership???? Me too!!!!! I know your pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verwilderd Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 How often do you have to get to work 8am sharp (or somewhere else you have to get no matter what) when there's lots of snow on the ground? Winter tires are nice, but with just one tire trying to move you - might not be enough. If you can sit out the worst before the streets are plowed - awd in a base model isn't worth it IMO. There is more to awd than just traction on snow. You are doubling your chances for grip and that could be in bad weather, or when you need to make an emergency maneuver. I addition to that, the Subaru is going to be a much safer car, have better resale and will be MUCH easier to sell when you get to the point of wanting a new car down the road. In addition, maintenance costs are actually fairly low when compared to other brands. In addition, more people tend to fall in love with their Subaru (whatever vehicle it is) then with other brands. So by buying the Subaru, you will be buying something that no only have better "stuff" but also something you can actually enjoy. To the OP....you keep saying you can't justify $2000 more for the Legacy, but seem to be able to justify $1000 more. Where are you coming up with these numbers? Are these random numbers in your head? Just realize that if you are financing, you aren't talking about a ridiculous amount in payment. In addition if the Subaru is certified whereas the Toyota is not, that extra cost in price might not mean much as Subaru provides interest rate incentives to CPO vehicles. If the rate is lower, the payments could be almost the same despite the fact the the Toyota is cheaper. Then what would you want to do: Pay more money towards the interest or pay more money towards a car? If you need some help, why not read customer reviews of each product (and I would suggest not getting opinions from people here on the boards). Before anyone flames me about the above statement, I say that not because anyone's opinion is dumb or anything, but because we are all hardcore enthusiasts (which, and correct me if I'm wrong, the OP is not) we are going to be much tougher to satisfy vs the average joe. In addition, because we are enthusiasts, we (including myself) are also more prone to say Subaru not because it is the better car but because we love them. So be reading reviews from others, you will get an unbiased/unsaturated opinion of each vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanaenk Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 There is more to awd than just traction on snow. You are doubling your chances for grip and that could be in bad weather, or when you need to make an emergency maneuver. Grip =tires. AWD/ABS etc is grip management technology. So no, you're not doubling your grip. You do get better acceleration on bad conditions due to awd, but for a family base sedan, that is not (and should not be) a factor. Safety evasion maneuver, again, needs better tires, not AWD. Basically, in a family sedan, that is regularly driven from point A to point B w/o and not pushed to the limit of traction only helps take off in bad weather. I addition to that, the Subaru is going to be a much safer car, Safety ratings are the same. have better resale Erm, what? and will be MUCH easier to sell when you get to the point of wanting a new car down the road. You're kidding, right? There are many times more people looking for used Camrys than all Subies combined. 666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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