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not sure what to do: new deck or clean sweep


blonde

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Hi guys,

 

since i just can't take the stock stereo any more, i have decided to finally upgrade my stereo. right now i am trying to decide if i should get a new alpine deck with the avo din bezel or get the new JL clean sweep. here are the pros and cons that i see:

 

JL clean sweep:

 

clean interface with the stock stereo and much better sound curve

 

new deck:

 

better ipod interface

better sound quality

will not look as good

more money and more complex installation

 

so thanks to subaru for being assholes, i am stuck with a decision that i never had to make before ( this will be my last subaru for this reason alone)

 

thanks

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Hi guys,

 

since i just can't take the stock stereo any more, i have decided to finally upgrade my stereo. right now i am trying to decide if i should get a new alpine deck with the avo din bezel or get the new JL clean sweep. here are the pros and cons that i see:

 

JL clean sweep:

 

clean interface with the stock stereo and much better sound curve

 

new deck:

 

better ipod interface

better sound quality

will not look as good

more money and more complex installation

 

so thanks to subaru for being assholes, i am stuck with a decision that i never had to make before ( this will be my last subaru for this reason alone)

 

thanks

 

the Clean Sweep is $400 - a new deck may not be much more money (i dunno how much the DIN bezel is, though).

 

i'm also pissed because its making my decision between a Legacy GT and an STi very difficult. if future Subarus have integrated stereo/climate controls, i may be shopping elsewhere.

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the Clean Sweep is $400 - a new deck may not be much more money (i dunno how much the DIN bezel is, though).

 

i'm also pissed because its making my decision between a Legacy GT and an STi very difficult. if future Subarus have integrated stereo/climate controls, i may be shopping elsewhere.

 

i hear you bro, i like the legacy but this issue is really getting to me. i am a fan of car audio and i just feel like subaru screwed me with this. i know that this sounds stupid to some of you but i value my in car stereo and and the stock unit is pure junk!!!!

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i hear you bro, i like the legacy but this issue is really getting to me. i am a fan of car audio and i just feel like subaru screwed me with this. i know that this sounds stupid to some of you but i value my in car stereo and and the stock unit is pure junk!!!!

 

it may be trivial to some, but i'm considering getting a 6-speed STi for just this reason, and i live in the land of hills and traffic. :rolleyes: i have a 40Gig MP3 player i'd like to use in my car, and i'll have to spend another $400 to do it with the Clean Sweep. i could give a crap about the equalization correction - couldn't there just be a base model Clean Sweep for less money? i've never even paid $400 for a frickin' *head unit* - at most $375!

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if future Subarus have integrated stereo/climate controls, i may be shopping elsewhere.

I believe that the new B9 Tribeca has an integrated stereo/climate control just like the legacy. As far as $400 being alot of $, yes, that is alot of money, but for the sound quality and the fact that everything appears stock (to theives, and the fact that it matches your dash), thats a good deal, considering how much others spend on head units for their systems.

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I believe that the new B9 Tribeca has an integrated stereo/climate control just like the legacy. As far as $400 being alot of $, yes, that is alot of money, but for the sound quality and the fact that everything appears stock (to theives, and the fact that it matches your dash), thats a good deal, considering how much others spend on head units for their systems.

 

Crutchfield must be sh*****g a brick! :lol: i know i ain't happy. my AVIC-N1 dreams are crushed.

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Hi guys,

 

since i just can't take the stock stereo any more, i have decided to finally upgrade my stereo. right now i am trying to decide if i should get a new alpine deck with the avo din bezel or get the new JL clean sweep. here are the pros and cons that i see:

 

JL clean sweep:

 

clean interface with the stock stereo and much better sound curve

 

new deck:

 

better ipod interface

better sound quality

will not look as good

more money and more complex installation

 

so thanks to subaru for being assholes, i am stuck with a decision that i never had to make before ( this will be my last subaru for this reason alone)

 

thanks

 

Not to excuse Subaru in particular, but I think you'll find that this trend of the integrated head unit is not going away on any brand of car. Looked at a newer Mazda, Honda or Infiniti lately? It sucks, but it's reality.

 

The good news is that the CleanSweep will give you equivalent sound quality to a very good quality aftermarket deck... I can tell you this with complete confidence as I have one in my LGT wagon right now connected to a serious amplifier/speaker system. While the CleanSweep will not provide iPod control it does permit the iPod audio to go to the system through high quality line-level inputs and sounds phenomenal. I mounted my iPod in the cupholder area and it's easy to use that way. I also installed an XM tuner in my upper dash cubby hole and used a source selector switch to toggle between XM and the iPod... works great, sounds awesome.

 

Best regards,

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

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it may be trivial to some, but i'm considering getting a 6-speed STi for just this reason, and i live in the land of hills and traffic. :rolleyes: i have a 40Gig MP3 player i'd like to use in my car, and i'll have to spend another $400 to do it with the Clean Sweep. i could give a crap about the equalization correction - couldn't there just be a base model Clean Sweep for less money? i've never even paid $400 for a frickin' *head unit* - at most $375!

 

Believe me, nothing would make me happier than a $200.00 CleanSweep that worked. Unfortunately, it takes a serious amount of horsepower to correct factory EQ without undesirable audible side-effects. The CleanSweep uses a 32-bit SHARC DSP, which is essentially the same chip found in high-end home theater receivers (That sell for as much as $5000)... It applies 120 bands of EQ to correct factory response and processes all audio at 24 bit resolution to keep noise and distortion down. There's around 600 electronic components inside that little black box. We were not going to settle for less than audiophile quality results and that proved to be quite a challenge.

 

Keep in mind that the CleanSweep will operate in your present car and also in your future cars, so it's something you can probably use for quite some time.

 

Best regards,

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

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.

 

The good news is that the CleanSweep will give you equivalent sound quality to a very good quality aftermarket deck... I can tell you this with complete confidence as I have one in my LGT wagon right now connected to a serious amplifier/speaker system. While the CleanSweep will not provide iPod control it does permit the iPod audio to go to the system through high quality line-level inputs and sounds phenomenal. I mounted my iPod in the cupholder area and it's easy to use that way. I also installed an XM tuner in my upper dash cubby hole and used a source selector switch to toggle between XM and the iPod... works great, sounds awesome.

 

Best regards,

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

 

 

do you have a picture??

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thanks msmith, i am looking more into the cleansweep. it is a pleasure to have you on board with us..

 

also, i do understand that it is not only subaru that goes with the integrated dash but i am still pretty sure that i will not buy a car like this again. i would much rather get an audi so i can install a nice system like i had in my EVO and my old WRX..

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Believe me, nothing would make me happier than a $200.00 CleanSweep that worked. Unfortunately, it takes a serious amount of horsepower to correct factory EQ without undesirable audible side-effects. The CleanSweep uses a 32-bit SHARC DSP, which is essentially the same chip found in high-end home theater receivers (That sell for as much as $5000)... It applies 120 bands of EQ to correct factory response and processes all audio at 24 bit resolution to keep noise and distortion down. There's around 600 electronic components inside that little black box. We were not going to settle for less than audiophile quality results and that proved to be quite a challenge.

 

Keep in mind that the CleanSweep will operate in your present car and also in your future cars, so it's something you can probably use for quite some time.

 

Best regards,

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

 

understood. i'm just glad you are offering the solution - thanks! :)

 

you may be on to a real money-maker if this "integrated stereo" trend continues, as it seems to be doing.

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Believe me, nothing would make me happier than a $200.00 CleanSweep that worked. Unfortunately, it takes a serious amount of horsepower to correct factory EQ without undesirable audible side-effects. The CleanSweep uses a 32-bit SHARC DSP, which is essentially the same chip found in high-end home theater receivers (That sell for as much as $5000)... It applies 120 bands of EQ to correct factory response and processes all audio at 24 bit resolution to keep noise and distortion down. There's around 600 electronic components inside that little black box. We were not going to settle for less than audiophile quality results and that proved to be quite a challenge.

 

Keep in mind that the CleanSweep will operate in your present car and also in your future cars, so it's something you can probably use for quite some time.

 

Best regards,

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

 

 

With all due resped to JL's quality and reputation, I would love to see the BOM cost of a Clean Sweep. Being an electrical designer, and working in the automotive industry, I know what it costs to make highly sophisticated electronics (ABS controllers, image processing units). I can't imagine that the CleanSweep has any more than $100 in electronics in it. I doubt that the SHARC DSPs are more than $8-12 a piece in quantity (TI DM642's are about that expensive).

 

By the time you amortize manufacturing and design costs over the number of units (10k per year), $400 seems like about a 100-200% markup.. nice profit margin.

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With all due resped to JL's quality and reputation, I would love to see the BOM cost of a Clean Sweep. Being an electrical designer, and working in the automotive industry, I know what it costs to make highly sophisticated electronics (ABS controllers, image processing units). I can't imagine that the CleanSweep has any more than $100 in electronics in it. I doubt that the SHARC DSPs are more than $8-12 a piece in quantity (TI DM642's are about that expensive).

 

By the time you amortize manufacturing and design costs over the number of units (10k per year), $400 seems like about a 100-200% markup.. nice profit margin.

Yeah.. but usually if you don't pick up your electronic goods for 50-55% MSRP, you're getting ripped off.. a $200 selling point is more like it. (exception being PC parts)

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You know this is a touchy subject for me too.

 

So, yes it is obvious that SOA (and other mfgs.) want to get a piece of the aftermarket audio market.

 

You know that SOA will NOT offer a DIN plate for aftermarket audio, but you can bet your ass they WILL offer a head/control upgrade that will have an AUX-in. Retrofitable of course.

 

I am sure in the near future, you will get a notice that just like the Nav unit will retrofit 2005, they will have an audio head upgrade.

 

How much will it cost? Probably more than Clean Sweep.

 

I work with the largest CEM (Contract Electronics Manufacture) in SoCal and we have a large facility in China. I have seen all kinds of audio electronics projects, and $400 is a fair price.

 

Most small runs (under 10k - USA build) with 100+ parts on it usually have a Mfg. cost of $100 to $200. Let's say Clean Sweep is $200, a fair start-up production cost. OK, they need their 20%-30%, then the Distributor needs thier 50% and then the retailler needs thier 50%.

 

You add it up. OK, they make money on direct web sales, but that is not the majority.

 

Once production is up and running, and they have some consistent volume, they may reduce cost, and then go to China and reduce more.

 

Street price drops when sales drop. IF this is a hot product with low mfg. quantities to keep demand tight, then the street price will be close to MSRP.

 

The Subi dealer already want $400+ for a stock head, so an upgrade - say on with MP3 or Aux-in will cost more. Plus it will have the same blah sound quality.

 

I am seriously concidering the Clean Sweep, but I want to read some user reviews. I also don't like the idea of a remote volume control, but if that is the only con (besides price), then I could live with it.

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Yeah, the remote volume control is killing the Clean Sweep for me as well. It doesn't make much sense that the CS can learn and correct the factory EQ curve at ONE level, but not ALL levels. I would think you could plot a correction factor at multiple sound levels to keep the factory volume knob.
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If I remember correctly, you can still use your factory volume control.

 

EDIT: I am editing my statement because it is WRONG. You can technically use your factory volume control, but it will sound weird. Read on for the explanations.

-ben
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I was initially a bit frustrated by the integrated head unit, as well, but I also realize that my desire to go nuts with my stereo puts me in a very small minority of car owners. I also realize the cost of developing, testing, and cranking out the Cleansweep. I will gladly shell out my $400 when it comes out. The remote volume switch isn't a big deal to me. Plenty of options to find it a comfy home. :) I also defer to Manville and the pros regarding the difficulty of developing the Cleansweep. As an engineer the story of my life is developing the product (or process in my case) that will sell and make economic sense, not the dream I have of the "ultimate idea."

 

For the vast majority of car buyers, even in something as seemingly nitch as the LGT or OBXT, sliding into the driver's seat for the first time and seeing a beautifully integrated head unit is a better selling point than catering to the needs of those of us who plan to revamp everything but the... but the... well, what don't we want to change. :)

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Yeah, the remote volume control is killing the Clean Sweep for me as well. It doesn't make much sense that the CS can learn and correct the factory EQ curve at ONE level, but not ALL levels. I would think you could plot a correction factor at multiple sound levels to keep the factory volume knob.

 

Here's the deal on that issue... the CleanSweep listens to a calibration tone which is fixed in level and measures the response... then sets up the 120 filters to correct the response and stores the filter values in non-volatile memory. If you were to listen to nothing but the calibration tone (pretty boring), the CleanSweep could "listen to" the curves at any volume setting and adjust accordingly. Since we want to listen to music for the most part and the CleanSweep has no idea whether you're listening to Milli Vanilli or Pavarotti, it couldn't possibly know what to refer to. The CleanSweep cannot differentiate between a quiet passage in the music at volume 25 and a loud one at volume 10... they may actually be the same level. That's why it has to be calibrated at a particular volume level. I recommend "25" on the LGT radio.

 

That being said, there is no reason why you can't use the radio's volume control as your primary volume when listening to the radio or a CD, you just have to accept the fact that Subaru's audio engineers decided to implement a non-defeatable, volume dependent loudness compensation curve (bass and treble boost at low volumes). This is not necessarily a bad thing, and it sounds fine for some people (I don't like it)... you just set the CleanSweep's volume fairly high and use the factory knob.

 

If you want to control the volume of the aux input device (iPod, Sat radio or whatever) you have to use the CleanSweep volume knob... the audio from the aux. source does not pass through the OEM radio in any way, shape or form. It simply runs through the CleanSweep (unequalized) and the CleanSweep simply acts as a kickass preamp for that source.

 

I mounted my volume control where the factory seat heater switches go, which is really comfortable to use (more comfortable than reaching for the radio's volume). I live in Florida, so seat heaters are not really that important. If you need the seat heaters, you could relocate the seat heat switches or find another reasonable place to install the small volume knob.

 

I wish the CleanSweep could work off the factory volume, but this would require hacking into the car's radio and doing major work. The whole point of the CleanSweep is to integrate with the OEM system without permanently modifying it. Nothing is perfect, I'm afraid, and I understand if you can't live with another knob in the car, but if you're really into good sound I think you will find the compromise worthwhile.

 

Best regards,

 

Manville Smith

JL Audio, Inc.

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With all due resped to JL's quality and reputation, I would love to see the BOM cost of a Clean Sweep. Being an electrical designer, and working in the automotive industry, I know what it costs to make highly sophisticated electronics (ABS controllers, image processing units). I can't imagine that the CleanSweep has any more than $100 in electronics in it. I doubt that the SHARC DSPs are more than $8-12 a piece in quantity (TI DM642's are about that expensive).

 

By the time you amortize manufacturing and design costs over the number of units (10k per year), $400 seems like about a 100-200% markup.. nice profit margin.

 

C'mon man... the BOM is not the only thing to consider... nor is the development cost (which was considerable)... the cost of running a business, health insurance for our 250 employees, the nice tax bill Uncle Sam hits us with every year, my outrageous salary, the dealer's markup (and all his costs) etc. all come into play.

 

There are plenty of interface products with FAR greater profit margins being sold out there. We're actually running pretty lean on this product because we want it to facilitate amplifier and speaker sales. I'm sorry it can't be less expensive right now, but that's just the way it is.

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The CleanSweep cannot differentiate between a quiet passage in the music at volume 25 and a loud one at volume 10... they may actually be the same level.

 

Ahh! That makes perfect sense. No way for CS to tell if the volume knob has actually been turned or the music just has a loud passage.

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LMAO at all you pissed at Subaru in this thread because of the radio controls and that it's hard to replace. Guess what folks, Subaru is BEHIND THE CURVE on this shit. Have you been in an Acura TL lately? Forget about replacing that. Mazda3? Yup, looks like you're pretty much stuck with what they give ya? But wait, what about Cenerpunch's iPod connection? Oh, that's right, he got his idea of using a silent cd from someone driving an RX8 ... similar problems over there. And it seems to be everything from low end to upscale - the 745i? ... Hahahaha!!!! I don't know why the industry is heading in this direction ... I'm guessing it's just a style thing, but it isn't just Subaru doing it.
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