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Advice on water/methanol injection. Who has it/what do you think?


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So I have gone back and forth on Switching to FMIC or keeping the TMIC and adding water/Meth Injection. ( I have an AVO 380 with all needed supporting mods)

 

I think I have decided on the water/meth. Here are a few questions, and with all my post I prefer first hand experience (white tiger, Rao, the usual well respected crew). There hasnt been much said on this particular site about this topic so I hope to get some facts for everyone to share.

 

1.Some kits talk about water some talk about meth. Dont they all use a 50/50 mixture of both? Also How much truth is there that you can use windshield washer fluid? If you was to mix your own, where can we by methanol from?

 

2. Im pretty sure I want a progressive system (right?) The prices seem to vary from $400.00-$900.00 Im leaning towards SMC Enterprises, Labonte MotorSports, or possibly the AEM kit. Who has used what and any regrets with your kit?

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AEM is good and afordable without bells and whistles. In any case, you'll need a tune. Don't use windshield washer fluid because the mixture can vary. Use Boostjuice.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that I'm not one of the usual experts like RAO:) However, I do have first hand experience.

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Very timely. I'm also considering a water/meth injection but I am also not finding much information specific to our cars. Can people with first hand expeience fill in some of the other blanks such as:

 

nozzle size calculions for the LGT

pump reliability between manufacturers

tank capacity and engine bay vs trunk mount consideration

activation using ecu/utec/built in etc.

failsafes

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So I have gone back and forth on Switching to FMIC or keeping the TMIC and adding water/Meth Injection. ( I have an AVO 380 with all needed supporting mods)

 

I think I have decided on the water/meth. Here are a few questions, and with all my post I prefer first hand experience (white tiger, Rao, the usual well respected crew). There hasnt been much said on this particular site about this topic so I hope to get some facts for everyone to share.

 

1.Some kits talk about water some talk about meth. Dont they all use a 50/50 mixture of both? Also How much truth is there that you can use windshield washer fluid? If you was to mix your own, where can we by methanol from?

 

2. Im pretty sure I want a progressive system (right?) The prices seem to vary from $400.00-$900.00 Im leaning towards SMC Enterprises, Labonte MotorSports, or possibly the AEM kit. Who has used what and any regrets with your kit?

 

I probably shouldn't post since I was mentioned SECOND in your list :lol: , but since I am such a nice guy here goes...

 

 

1. You can use anything from 100% water to 100% methanol (not a good idea) or anywhere in between; although a 50/50 mix has benefits and a lot of people, including me, use blue washer fluid which is about 30% methanol.

 

2. The bottom line is that you want a boost based system (search for endless arguments about other systems and how they are theoretically a lot better). I don't know about the AEM, but just about any reputable brand will do the job; they all pretty much use the same pumps (except for aquamist and even they started using the same basic pump since their fancy one couldn't deliver enough for high HP applications). The boost based systems all work pretty much the same, the pump turns on at a fraction of full voltage a user settable amount of boost and ramps up to full voltage at more boost.

 

 

Very timely. I'm also considering a water/meth injection but I am also not finding much information specific to our cars. Can people with first hand expeience fill in some of the other blanks such as:

 

nozzle size calculions for the LGT

pump reliability between manufacturers

tank capacity and engine bay vs trunk mount consideration

activation using ecu/utec/built in etc.

failsafes

 

1. If you can't figure that out you really shouldn't be considering going this route ;)

 

2. They mostly use the same pumps so hey are mostly the same reliability - it should last for years, but like anything it can break.

 

3. Use the washer tank - it is big and engineered to fit. There is no other underhod location and in the trunk is a PITA

 

4. Use a boost based controller as discussed above

 

5. Failsafes are nice. You need to tap into the wastegate duty solenoid - some folks use an aftermarket BCS just for that purpose since the mini-harness makes a good place to tap into the line. I just picked up the wire at thee CU.

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rao, i think thats the first serious post you've made in 4 years.

 

Agreed, I had to butter him up first though. Telling him how bright and well respected he is. :lol:

 

Seriously though Rao thanks for the information

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As I previously posted, addition of water/meth required a tune to maximize performance advantage. Given that the engine is tuned with a specific mixture of water/meth, it's critical to always use exactly the same concentration. That's why I said not to use washer fluid - it changes in concentration between brands, and even within brands over time.

 

Trunk mount for better weight distribution.

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Meth is a bandaid. Don't like lit, don't recommend it.

 

Agree.

 

I'm a Pump, Corn, and Race fuel kind of guy.

[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard
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I just think it's inconvenient and messy. I'm not one for telling my wife to "hold on, I need more washer fluid" every other fuel fill up. Seems like an unnecessary hassle.

 

Put gas in the car, select the right map, and drive off. No muss, no fuss.

 

I don't see the justification for running meth? Make more power on pump gas? What if the pump fails and line pressure drops? It only takes one det event to blow a motor. Is the added power worth the added risk?

 

Of course it is your car, and it's already F'd because you are driving it.

 

I have heard good things about the Aquamist systems, but I also hear the install is a PITA.

[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard
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Meth is not a bandaid. Its fine for a street car, despite being illegal. Yes running corn fuel would make more sense, but its not easily accessible. If you're running a meth setup you have the option of setting when you want to start spraying. With my old setup i had it go from 7psi all the way to 27psi. Its on demand race gas. If you're not boosting the car, you dont use it.
06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater :lol:
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i've been running hfs-6 for about a year, no regrets, one of the best power mods i've done. i use the oem washer tank, and find it perfectly adequate, very stealth, and easy to get to if needed. in fact, i've got the pump in the other fenderwell; it's all very compact, fairly accessible, and has been reliable. you want to consider/map out everything before you go ahead and install, though.

meth was almost a no-brainer for me, as e85 (lack of) availability and reduced mileage are not appealing at all to my habits, and race gas is right here, but out of the question financially. we get hot/humid summers, so the charge cooling was the toppler.

 

my decision for this system vs. one of the 'economy' systems was based on a lot of factors:

 

1. tuner recommended (no, he doesn't get a cut ;))

2. reliable preceding/contemporary systems, some shared components, old issues addressed with upgraded components. great reviews everywhere, no gripes to be found.

3. sophistication v. dollar is outstanding

4. display/readout/failsafe are best around

5. i have all zinc plated brass compression fittings

6. customer service/support = second to none

7. boost based is fine, but idc is just as good with better flow control -- fwiw, this system can do either of the above, or maf ...probably more.

8. flexibility; you can make it act just about however you'd like a system to act under nearly any circumstances you could imagine.

9. ease of install. any system is going to take some doing, because it is such a 'customized' project (meaning you have the freedom to set it up how you want it [within some parameters]), but for one with so much electrical, it was made very simple with rj connectors, etc.

 

as for mix, i use HEET, which is 99% meth, for the meth concentrate, and you'll find it available at nearly every retail store in the US that sells anything automotive (any walmart, any auto chain, even some supermarkets). i go 50/50 by weight (or volume don't remember which) with pure water. there is a mixing chart on nasioc. the final cost is a bit more than WWF, but still very cheap. i buy 6 bottles (at like $1.xx per), mix with 5 bottles water, that gives the desired 50:50 and pretty much fills 1 oem WWF tank. 1 WWF tank lasts say 2-3 fill ups depending how much right foot. mixing takes literally 5 minutes out of every week or so, and the wife only has to 'hold on' if you drop your foot :)

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Get a 5 gallon tank, wont fill it up 2 often.

 

But you are adding nearly 50lbs (including hardware) for a system that could fail without warning.

 

Don't fool yourself, j255c. Meth is not on-demand race gas. Not even close. You can tell it when to start spraying, but you had better hope it actually does, and does so with consistency. Otherwise, pop goes the weasel.

 

Corngas is location dependent. I could pass an E85 station every day depending on how I get to work, apparently the mid-west is a hotbed for corngas.

 

Again, I'm not here to debate this. The OP asked "what do you think", and I think it's a bad/inconvenient idea.

 

Underpowerd said he has to fill up every 2-3 tanks. That'd be once every other week for me! Unacceptable. Corngas is a far easier alternative. Both need the same supporting mods, but corngas is far more reliable and far easier.

[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/proper-flip-key-interesti-159894.html"]Flip Key Development Thread[/URL] "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." - E. Hubbard
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But you are adding nearly 50lbs (including hardware) for a system that could fail without warning.

 

Don't fool yourself, j255c. Meth is not on-demand race gas. Not even close. You can tell it when to start spraying, but you had better hope it actually does, and does so with consistency. Otherwise, pop goes the weasel.

 

Corngas is location dependent. I could pass an E85 station every day depending on how I get to work, apparently the mid-west is a hotbed for corngas.

 

Again, I'm not here to debate this. The OP asked "what do you think", and I think it's a bad/inconvenient idea.

 

Underpowerd said he has to fill up every 2-3 tanks. That'd be once every other week for me! Unacceptable. Corngas is a far easier alternative. Both need the same supporting mods, but corngas is far more reliable and far easier.

 

You're basing this on personal experience? I never had an issue with my meth kit failing, matter of fact its one of the few things that didnt fail. Yes I would run e85 all the time if I could but that also requires work. Larger fuel pump and 1000cc+ injectors come to mind. It all depends on the utility of the car.

06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater :lol:
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You're basing this on personal experience? I never had an issue with my meth kit failing, matter of fact its one of the few things that didnt fail. Yes I would run e85 all the time if I could but that also requires work. Larger fuel pump and 1000cc+ injectors come to mind. It all depends on the utility of the car.

 

:lol:

 

Ya that is ONE of the FEW things on your car that HASNT broken lol

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:lol:

 

Ya that is ONE of the FEW things on your car that HASNT broken lol

 

haha, I tried to have a 400whp+ car for my only car with factory components rated at 250chp, I dont know what I was thinking. It was fun for a while, I have the warthog now, no worries.

06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater :lol:
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haha, I tried to have a 400whp+ car for my only car with factory components rated at 250chp, I dont know what I was thinking. It was fun for a while, I have the warthog now, no worries.

 

 

whatcha mean by warthog.

 

man seeing all your post makes me want 2 sell my car while it works

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whatcha mean by warthog.

 

man seeing all your post makes me want 2 sell my car while it works

 

Fj Cruiser, i call it the warthog. I've had a string of bad luck with mine, but all the people making big power out of these cars have sold them if you look :lol:. They're great cars, but not for what I was interested in pursuing.

06 TB EVO IX SE stock turbo monster subaru hater :lol:
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Fj Cruiser, i call it the warthog. I've had a string of bad luck with mine, but all the people making big power out of these cars have sold them if you look :lol:. They're great cars, but not for what I was interested in pursuing.

 

 

ya that's kinda how it is with all awd cars, if your gona put that much power down with awd you gota build the car from bottom up.

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i've been running hfs-6 for about a year, no regrets, one of the best power mods i've done. i use the oem washer tank, and find it perfectly adequate, very stealth, and easy to get to if needed. in fact, i've got the pump in the other fenderwell; it's all very compact, fairly accessible, and has been reliable. you want to consider/map out everything before you go ahead and install, though.

meth was almost a no-brainer for me, as e85 (lack of) availability and reduced mileage are not appealing at all to my habits, and race gas is right here, but out of the question financially. we get hot/humid summers, so the charge cooling was the toppler.

 

my decision for this system vs. one of the 'economy' systems was based on a lot of factors:

 

1. tuner recommended (no, he doesn't get a cut ;))

2. reliable preceding/contemporary systems, some shared components, old issues addressed with upgraded components. great reviews everywhere, no gripes to be found.

3. sophistication v. dollar is outstanding

4. display/readout/failsafe are best around

5. i have all zinc plated brass compression fittings

6. customer service/support = second to none

7. boost based is fine, but idc is just as good with better flow control -- fwiw, this system can do either of the above, or maf ...probably more.

8. flexibility; you can make it act just about however you'd like a system to act under nearly any circumstances you could imagine.

9. ease of install. any system is going to take some doing, because it is such a 'customized' project (meaning you have the freedom to set it up how you want it [within some parameters]), but for one with so much electrical, it was made very simple with rj connectors, etc.

 

as for mix, i use HEET, which is 99% meth, for the meth concentrate, and you'll find it available at nearly every retail store in the US that sells anything automotive (any walmart, any auto chain, even some supermarkets). i go 50/50 by weight (or volume don't remember which) with pure water. there is a mixing chart on nasioc. the final cost is a bit more than WWF, but still very cheap. i buy 6 bottles (at like $1.xx per), mix with 5 bottles water, that gives the desired 50:50 and pretty much fills 1 oem WWF tank. 1 WWF tank lasts say 2-3 fill ups depending how much right foot. mixing takes literally 5 minutes out of every week or so, and the wife only has to 'hold on' if you drop your foot :)

 

You have no idea what you are talking about, none of you WI fanbois do :lol:

 

WI doesn't work and we all know it. Just accept it.

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