Another 5eat to 6mt/5mt swap questions. (05+ LGT) thread

[crrider80]

I realized that our 5eat front axles have male ends going into the trans. This will NOT work on an rs type 5mt as it has male ends on the front diff. ... What now? I'll have to get 4th gen LGT components. Bagggghhh.

[ESP Dyno]

Finally, got the car squared away on the dyno. The tune did vary quite a bit from when it was an automatic. In fairness, I jumped up a size on the turbo too, so I'm not sure on the top end exactly the reason for the changes, but there were a good amount of changes made to the low load areas of the map. The timing map required some changes down low to improve the surging I was feeling at low RPMs and light load.

 

Also, if I am correct, it would appear the automatic ECU wants to pull a little timing on the shift as a means to save the transmission. It seems to still be doing this a little when I manually shift the car on the road. Trying to see if I we can work this part out.

 

All and all, you would not know the car was originally an automatic, other than the PRND indicator still on the cluster and the lovely up and down arrows on the steering wheel.

 

I'll just have to find a use for these in my spare time, like maybe rewire them into the stereo to control the volume or something

[ClimberDHexMods]

^^^ did you disconnect the TCU?

[Rick]

^^^ did you disconnect the TCU?

 

Yes, he did.

[fishbone]

Also, if I am correct, it would appear the automatic ECU wants to pull a little timing on the shift as a means to save the transmission.

Where/how do you see that in logs? Ignition timing, dynamic advance?

[ClimberDHexMods]

Where/how do you see that in logs? Ignition timing, dynamic advance?

 

When I read the 5eat manual I got the idea it was in the requested torque map, but that would not necessarily apply here...

[NSFW]

There's a switch called "retard signal from AT" that you can watch in a logger. Anyone try it?

[frank_ster]

well there are two signals from the tcu one is torq permission .. this is the time when you put it into drive to give the tranny a chance to get into gear. and then there is retard signal for normal mode shifting .. when in sport mode or manual mode the retard signal doesn't normally occur unless the shift is taking a realy long time. ie slipping.

from what i understand you have taken out the tcu ?

if its still there .. what you can do is tell the tcu that the tranny is in N then it won't go trying to do anything ..

 

unless you have connected the neutral switch to the clutch pedal ? this would do the torque permission at every shift .. making you car have no power for a few seconds then come on normally.

[ESP Dyno]

On the timing retard logging, we can see it but from what I understand this is not defined in the AP software to be able to change it.

 

With the TCM connected, I had more problems than it would be worth to get the tranny to think its in Neutral. But, I could certainly try to hook up the the clutch switch and monitor the timing retard at the shifts again. I believe I could also just put 12volts to this pin on the ECU which might serve the same purpose but still let me use my remote starter. In the auto schematic, this pin has voltage all the time as there is no clutch switch to break it.

[Leonardo]

How much is the ECU Harness again??

 

Would be good to get one from a donor car and compare.

[Leonardo]

Updates?

 

Thinking of starting to save parts up for a swap but we need to figure out the ECU/TCU aspect. (proper ECU ROM and all)

[Rick]

Updates?

 

Thinking of starting to save parts up for a swap but we need to figure out the ECU/TCU aspect. (proper ECU ROM and all)

 

 

It's already been figured out. My car has been running great with a swapped setup for several months now. The only thing that isn't right is the gauge cluster is still the automatic, and it displays a can-bus error above the odometer. Eventually I will pickup another gauge cluster, MT ecu, ignition, and antenna to correct this.

 

Search for a thread I started a while back about the AT/MT identifier pin and what is needed to make your auto ecu behave like a manual. Once you do the swap you'll never look back.

[snow05gtRI]

so, on a cost basis, which one is more effective? full IPT tranny or MT swap? i dont know if there was ever a full cost listed for this swap.

[Leonardo]

It's already been figured out. My car has been running great with a swapped setup for several months now. The only thing that isn't right is the gauge cluster is still the automatic, and it displays a can-bus error above the odometer. Eventually I will pickup another gauge cluster, MT ecu, ignition, and antenna to correct this.

 

Search for a thread I started a while back about the AT/MT identifier pin and what is needed to make your auto ecu behave like a manual. Once you do the swap you'll never look back.

 

Yeah, I just want to avoid the error readings and any ECU problems.

 

for spare parts, saw this?:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-co-2005-legacy-gt-sedan-complete-part-out-143171p3.html

Wants $100 shipped for the cluster.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Leonardo

[ESP Dyno]

Car has been running great too. Just have no cruise and the little canbus error on the odometer but I have been just enjoying the car so I am probably going to deal with it for a while. One thing I finally wrapped up today was rewiring the neutral position switch. I used to have it hooked up as it is in the manual ECU diagram however, I found the auto ECU would bump the idle each time I shifted in and out of various gears. I also had a hesitation when shifting as the auto also would do something odd with the ignition timing as the car passed through neutral on a quick shift.

 

I rewired the ground out the neutral position switch to the Ebrake warning light ground. Therefore the car will think it is in neutral w/ the ebrake on when starting (enabling me to keep my remote car starter) but the ECU doesn't see the neutral position when shifting gears. The car runs perfect.

 

Rick,

Did you manage to get the cruise working?

[Leonardo]

Would that be something that a ROM reflash would fix?

[ESP Dyno]

Not sure. My Accessport is for the 5EAT car so I wasn't sure if it would still work if I went to the manual ECU or reflashed the ROM to a MT.

 

But honestly, you would not know the car was converted except for the PND321 on the cluster.

 

Total swap cost about $1600 with all the factory stuff. But plan on adding the extra $700 or so for a good clutch and WRX flywheel.

 

If I were to charge a customer for the swap, I would say about a day or slightly more of labor so maybe ~$800 or slightly more in labor to swap it all over.

[Leonardo]

Cool. We just need a proper walkthrough. Also, the AP can't turn off the PND321?

 

Tried a MT cluster?

[Rick]

Car has been running great too. Just have no cruise and the little canbus error on the odometer but I have been just enjoying the car so I am probably going to deal with it for a while. One thing I finally wrapped up today was rewiring the neutral position switch. I used to have it hooked up as it is in the manual ECU diagram however, I found the auto ECU would bump the idle each time I shifted in and out of various gears. I also had a hesitation when shifting as the auto also would do something odd with the ignition timing as the car passed through neutral on a quick shift.

 

I rewired the ground out the neutral position switch to the Ebrake warning light ground. Therefore the car will think it is in neutral w/ the ebrake on when starting (enabling me to keep my remote car starter) but the ECU doesn't see the neutral position when shifting gears. The car runs perfect.

 

Rick,

Did you manage to get the cruise working?

 

 

I untied the nuetral postition switch and tied in the ebrake instead like you suggested and I can definitely notice a difference. Your the man! I'm not sure how I didn't notice the bump in idle after shifting gears before I did this.

[Rick]

Cool. We just need a proper walkthrough. Also, the AP can't turn off the PND321?

 

Tried a MT cluster?

 

 

In order to use the MT cluster you would have to get the MT ecu, antenae for the key fob and ignition switch from the same donor car. This has to do with the immobilizer. Unfortunately for those who like cruise control this is the only way you will get it to work as well, due to this getting rid of the Can-Bus error.

[underpowerd]

Not sure. My Accessport is for the 5EAT car so I wasn't sure if it would still work if I went to the manual ECU or reflashed the ROM to a MT.

 

But honestly, you would not know the car was converted except for the PND321 on the cluster.

 

Total swap cost about $1600 with all the factory stuff. But plan on adding the extra $700 or so for a good clutch and WRX flywheel.

 

If I were to charge a customer for the swap, I would say about a day or slightly more of labor so maybe ~$800 or slightly more in labor to swap it all over.

 

so about 3-3.5k and a 24-48 hour turn... with #s like that, MA might become a serious alternative mecca (opposed to nj/ipt) for those who hit the 5eat wall ...

 

aside from the obvious bump in material expense, would you anticipate any/many profound obstacles for an sti 6mt as opposed to the relative ease of 5mt?

[Rick]

so about 3-3.5k and a 24-48 hour turn... with #s like that, MA might become a serious alternative mecca (opposed to nj/ipt) for those who hit the 5eat wall ...

 

aside from the obvious bump in material expense, would you anticipate any/many profound obstacles for an sti 6mt as opposed to the relative ease of 5mt?

 

The only obstacle I can think of is whether or not the 6mt crossmember will need modified like the 5mt did.

[snow05gtRI]

Not sure. My Accessport is for the 5EAT car so I wasn't sure if it would still work if I went to the manual ECU or reflashed the ROM to a MT.

 

But honestly, you would not know the car was converted except for the PND321 on the cluster.

 

Total swap cost about $1600 with all the factory stuff. But plan on adding the extra $700 or so for a good clutch and WRX flywheel.

 

If I were to charge a customer for the swap, I would say about a day or slightly more of labor so maybe ~$800 or slightly more in labor to swap it all over.

 

cool, thanks for the cost info. very good to know.

[Leonardo]

I'm tempted to get this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-SUBARU-LEGACY-GT-BODY-DASH-WIRING-HARNESS-EJ255-LGT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ370397776430QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[ClimberDHexMods]

I'm tempted to get this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-SUBARU-LEGACY-GT-BODY-DASH-WIRING-HARNESS-EJ255-LGT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ370397776430QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

Consider this as I just had the dash apart and am putting it together now. Swapping harnesses will take solid days of work, not simple hours. Just compare the 5eat and 5mt wiring diagrams and see if you can make the few minor fixes to make the conversion. I bet you the MT cluster plugs into either harness. I don't imagine Subaru would make these different. IF you do end up needing new connectors, cut and crimp rather than replace the entire thing. Will save you a couple days of ridiculous work.