Conversion 5x100 to 5x114.3 on 05 LGT

[boxkita]

The group N hubs should be rebuildable. Technically the sti hubs are rebuildable too. There used to be a place in portland oregon who did sti hub rebuilds.

 

Someone measured the rear hub vs sti vs lgt. I believe its very close to drop for the outside diameter. The sti hub has a much larger surface as well as better components.

 

Skf & timken would be your best bet on custom hubs. I contacted skf motorsports awhile back, but they were not interested.

 

With regards axle shafts, why not use an sti axle shaft and replace the stub?

 

group n axle shafts - https://www.rallispec.com/dif_dri_rst2802.html

group n hub - https://www.rallysportdirect.com/part/drive-axles/28473zr000-sti-jdm-group-n-complete-rear-wheel-bearing-hub

Edited July 31, 2020 by boxkita

[SpecDubC]

You can just bolt on STI front knuckles and then the STi front bearing to a standard LGT front control arm or spec.b aluminum version. You’ll also need STi coilover ears unless you use a Wisefab knuckle.

 

 

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Yes, I realize this for the front, but also considering the option may avoid someone having to convert it. The rear, however, mounts to an aluminum trailing arm. I was considering swapping to the the STI knuckle, but I don't like the idea of having to do that if you can solve the problem at the wheel hub level. Makes it much easier plug and play situation imo for other people as well. I'll look into that option possibly. There's something to be said for just ordering a replacement off the shelf in the future vs something custom, but still. If maybe all I have to do is service the bearings in the future instead of replacing the whole hub also then I like this option. In either case it's going to require all new axles throughout. For the higher spline count and custom for the length in the back from the sound.

 

I've reached this crossroad as one of the suspect wheel hubs I reassembled is now shot bearing wise and also the suspect inner CV boot on my front axle slipped again because I didn't have the proper tool when replacing just the clip. If it comes down to it I might just look at drilling that rear trailing arm and then getting custom rear axles while converting the knuckle up front. Thanks Boxkita I'll look into those other group n options as well.

Edited August 3, 2020 by SpecDubC

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[SpecDubC]

Just replaced my rear hubs today with skf replacement so I'll try to use my old ones for comparison to some sti and possibly take them to the machinist. I did notice my spec b aluminum trailing arm already had an extra hole in it but I'm not sure that relates to the different mount sti hub hub. Edited October 12, 2020 by SpecDubC

[boxkita]

regarding the 5 holes on the specb trailing arm hub mount. FreeRangeRacing did a conversion, but the abs function was deleted.

 

his wagon is still in the area. If there's interest, I might be able to buy the rear setup back. I'm guessing not cheap because I sold it for not cheap because I bought it from FreeRange for not cheap.

 

here's freerange's post with how he did it - https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4812197&postcount=178

 

So if we purchase a spec b rear arm you could machine them.

the front Knuckles i do not believe are direct bolt on due to the sti having a wider strut mounting point?

For a complete conversion i think parts would have to be included. I think around $400 for the rear knuckles to be converted. Most people would want to source their own axles etc. Also the other question is does this affect the abs system on our cars.

I thought of doing the same thing but I'm not a machinist. I only have a little engineering in my back ground plus no sti parts to play with.

Thanks for the info.

 

I am leery about using the Spec B rears because they have an extra hole in the hub mounting location that is almost exactly but not quite right where one of the new holes needs to go, and it's an oversized hole. I'm sure it could be done, but it's more work etc etc.

 

The front knuckles require STi struts and LCA.

 

The abs sensors are retained if you use 08+ STi front knuckles. I can not speak for the operability of the abs system with the modifications because my car has the ABS removed, but I see no reason the ABS would be aware of the modification at all.

 

Thanks for putting out a number. Part of the problem is if you can't find used hubs Timken is the only one making an aftermarket offering and it's $100/each. So, including that with the conversion would be down-right impossible financially. With some streamlining the machining and adapter could be done for that, though....I'll think on it moving forward.

[SpecDubC]

Update, Wisefab makes a front drop knuckle that supports 5x100 and 5x114.3 hubs with adapter pieces as well as adapter piece for the strut. I need to pull some measurements but I'm assuming these knuckles chould be used in place of the 2008 sti knuckles.

https://www.flatironstuning.com/wisefab-front-knuckles-02-14-wrx-04-14-sti

https://www.wisefab.com/subaru-impreza-1992-2014-front-drop-knuckle-kit

 

Per their website:

"Mounting points for 5x100 or 5x114,3 wheel bearings

Either 2005 - STI 5x114,3 bolted wheel bearing (28373VA000) or 2007 - 2013 WRX 5x100 bolted wheel bearing (28373FG000) can be used"

 

Not sure the 07-13 wrx 5x100 wheel hubs have same fitment as 05-09 LGT?

 

Also mentions wheel speed sensors being compatible.

 

They come with tie rod ends as part of the knuckle for anti roll correction and after emailing their engineering which is overseas Allar (his name) has informed me they have different length tie rod ends so this could probably facilitate my longer 2015 sti steering rack tie rods, or the OEM Legacy length tie rods. This would also make the wheel swap easier as I would not have to source 5x114.3 wheels and hubs right away. Further investigation will have to come from me on fitment when I get under the car again, but I assume I'll have the adjustability especially if I am converting to coilovers soon to compensate for drop knuckle height as needed. Their engineer also informed me that they plan on making a multilink rear suspension conversion in the near future this year, for 'newer' Subarus, not sure that will be bolt-on solution for our trailing arms though.

 

Although I've already re-bushed my front aluminum lower control arms with whiteline bushings, someone had informed me of the inferior design on the joint vs the Impreza LCA. Though my current ones would definitely have more mileage at this point I'm also considering upgrading to the RacerX adjustable LCA additionally keeping more things equal regarding the knuckle swap fitment although it's rumored to be very similar if not identical dimensions to our LCA. Note there's multiple generations of these on their website, specifically looking at 2008 sti fitment...

https://racerxfabrication.com/wrx-sti/suspension/front-lower-control-arms

 

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[dukeneverwinter]

The rears need to be addressed also right?

 

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[socalsleeper]

The rears need to be addressed also right?

 

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The rear is the whole problem the front you can bolt up the STI knuckle. There is no easy solution for the rear.

The only “real” option is to have a custom unit fabricated that will accept the STI wheel bearing with all the OEM attachment points.

Unfortunately this does not exist due to the cost of bringing it to market and how much it would cost sell. The cost way exceeds the benefits even when you consider the shorter life span of the hub units and wheel options.

[bubbagump]

socalsleeper :

 

The only “real” option is to have a custom unit fabricated that will accept the STI wheel bearing with all the OEM attachment points.

Unfortunately this does not exist due to the cost of bringing it to market and how much it would cost sell. The cost way exceeds the benefits even when you consider the shorter life span of the hub units and wheel options.

 

I have become secretly obsessed with this idea over the past couple weeks. I am pretty set on doing 6Spd swap not too far in the future and I would love to be able to go all the way out to a full STI drivetrain swap, brakes, shafts, bearings and all. I am wondering if 1) my understanding of current state is accurate and 2) I might have an idea.

 

 

1) I see that Free Range Racing and Antho both have solutions. From what I can tell the FRR solution does not retain ABS. Does speedo work though? I am ok-ish with giving up ABS but speedo's are cool... Also I am a little disappointed it seems incompatible with aluminum trailing arms. Although boxkita are you saying that FRR did actually figure out a solution for the aluminum arms? That would be one step to completely perfect being that I've also become obsessed with full aluminum arm set even though returns aren't likely all that cost effective.

 

Or would keeping ABS require hub to be mounted without spacer plate thing which would then not work with the length of the STI CV's.

 

2) I have seen idea of custom hub mentioned (in the post above for exampled) where the bearing of the STI was pressed into housing of LGT hub, and also have seen reference that maybe someone made one at one time? I lost that particular post. It does seem that it can be done but for way too much money? Is there any way that maybe it could happen for a couple hundred bucks per side given a really nice press or something? I did come across this:

 

https://www.flatironstuning.com/driveshaft-shop-axle-hub-kit-06-09-legacy-spec-b-w-r180-sti-differential

 

The 1000HP shafts are unneeded in my use case, but would something like the hub in this kit work? I am hoping most of that $2k is the shafts. I have seen many threads regarding it being difficult or maybe impossible to replace the bearings in the hub housings themselves. But if that's the case how is the hub in this kit used? If this could be a promising path at all I have started a conversation with someone at thedriveshaftshop and he started asking about spline counts and stuff.

 

This idea may have partially been floated already. Either way I am weirdly obsessed with this idea Anyone have any input? I would like to be able to do it with aluminum arms and ABS if possible. If the news is that it's just not ever going to be that perfect then I still might consider anyways.

 

Also it is a shame boxkita that the sub-frame swap couldn't work for any reasonable amount of $! That would have been the perfect solution, ditch this weird trailing arm setup thing we've got going on. Is there a consensus around here, is the trailing arm setup inferior to the setup the newer cars have going on or is it mostly just different?

 

EDIT : I realize that there are other modifications that would make more of a difference for less money. Do I need STI bearings and 114mm bolt pattern? I guess not. But I can't stop thinking about it.

Edited June 4, 2021 by bubbagump

[boxkita]

a number of ideas have been floated to make the rear arms support sti hubs.

 

the company that built a full set of hubs has been closed.

 

the sti subframe still sits in my shop. technically you could build a subframe and swap everything over. however difficulties abound. least of which getting it engineered and built.

 

FRR didn't like the abs in his wagon so deleted it. drilled holes to make the sti bearings work. Contact hkc-speed as they bought the car. Maybe they have the arms or will sell the entire car (rpb wagon unlimited)

[thejaredhuang]

Timken makes bearing for both. It's been determined the outer diameter is the same so in theory you could split the hub and press in the sti inner and have it working.

 

If you solve it, any number of ppl will be interested. Of course if your price is more than $10 over the timken you won't sell a thing

 

 

Ok I'm bumping this for more info on this Timken part. I see that the rear on the LGT is a cartridge bearing which is nice; are you saying that if you buy the cartridge bearing and press out the hub + bearing that it comes with in theory the STI hub bearing will fit? Is it TIMKEN HA590119?

 

 

If so that's easy and I already have all the parts from my 6mt/5x114 swapped (but hit by a drunk driver) 06 WRX wagon. The STI rear wheel bearing is readily available, the hub is a Subaru part only 28462FE011.

 

 

These are the 04-07 STI rear wheel bearing specs:

Width 2.054"

Outside Diameter 2.8340"

 

 

I'm also questioning the need to make the adapter plate if the 08+ STI uses the same OD size bearing as well, you can push out the hub+bearing from that set and put it into the carrier for the 05-09.

Edited August 30, 2021 by thejaredhuang

[Antho303T]

Ok I'm bumping this for more info on this Timken part. I see that the rear on the LGT is a cartridge bearing which is nice; are you saying that if you buy the cartridge bearing and press out the hub + bearing that it comes with in theory the STI hub bearing will fit? Is it TIMKEN HA590119?

 

 

If so that's easy and I already have all the parts from my 6mt/5x114 swapped (but hit by a drunk driver) 06 WRX wagon. The STI rear wheel bearing is readily available, the hub is a Subaru part only 28462FE011.

 

 

These are the 04-07 STI rear wheel bearing specs:

Width 2.054"

Outside Diameter 2.8340"

 

 

I'm also questioning the need to make the adapter plate if the 08+ STI uses the same OD size bearing as well, you can push out the hub+bearing from that set and put it into the carrier for the 05-09.

If you look at my posts, you’ll find some info as I already did the swap ~10 years ago.

[thejaredhuang]

I reread all your posts, you machined the rear hub and made an adapter which I'm trying to avoid. I'll need to take apart my rear hub to take measurements but I'm pretty sure there's an easier solution that no one has tried or reported.

 

 

Edit, bought a spare LGT wheel hub and took measurements

 

The 04-07 STI bearing will not fit in the LGT stock hub, LGT hub ID is too small as well as being a roller bearing vs the STI taper bearing.

 

 

Dimensions if anyone else wants, these are somewhat rough. Both of the inner races are machined into the stock carrier, it's pretty much not viable to find another bearing that will fit. I know some of this maybe old info but I couldn't find anything in my searches.

 

 

 

LGT Inner bearing: .596" deep, OD 2.796, ID 2.499

LGT Outer: .662" depth, OD 2.664, ID 2.523

 

 

FWIW to use a STI bearing you could machine the LGT carrier to 2.83 ID and push in the whole STI hub/bearing. The only hiccup is that the GD STI uses circlips to lock the bearings in place.

Edited September 9, 2021 by thejaredhuang

[mobius]

Well Jared it’s been a few months. Figure anything out?

[thejaredhuang]

Well Jared it’s been a few months. Figure anything out?

 

 

Sorry this kind of got put on the back burner as I finish up other projects, I looked at a Tribeca rear knuckle but it was totally different, I kind of resigned to the fact that the R180 will be hard to swap in with bolt in parts. I may sell my LGT and build the WRX instead.

[legacybt]

Edit: Cut a bunch of content - decided it wasn't safe.  

 

The content below should be relevant for those who want to take FreeRangeRacing's approach.

 

- Axle options for FreeRangeRacing's hub swap: Hybrid rear with 05-07 STi inner CV and axle bars, 08+ STi outer CVs (confirmed to work on narrowbody WRX R180 swaps).  GR STi axles fit, but have very little room as they’re an inch or so longer and hub inner face hasn’t changed location. 

Note: if you are doing this swap with a R160 diff, 08-10 WRX OEM rear axles should bolt up.  

 

 

 

 

Confirmation of ABS sensor - tone rings have same numbers:

 

 

STi vs. LGT rear hubs - OEM ABS mount location works with a ~8mm spacer to offset the hub from the arm mounting face, which accomodates the brake adapter.  ABS sensor will also need a spacer to move the sensor radially outward since the STI tone ring is a larger diameter. 

 

Importantly, if you want to keep ABS functionality and use FreeRangeRacing's 3/8" plate, you'll need to slot the ABS sensor hole and move it towards the hub mounting face by ~1.5mm to keep the ABS working. 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by legacybt
Removing unsafe mounting concept

[legacybt]

On 8/31/2021 at 12:15 PM, Antho303T said:

If you look at my posts, you’ll find some info as I already did the swap ~10 years ago.

Are you able to upload the photos of your swap on the forum post interface?  Ive never been able to open them as you’ve had them linked