Bolksey85 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 As one or a few of you may know, I currently work for a major Toyota dealer in SE PA. And over the last few weeks, I couldn't help but take notice of the complaints and what looks like an utter lack of QC both on new vehicles and older cars that shouldn't be having the issues that they are having. Instance, today we had 2 completely different cars that have major issues looming in the future. A coworker had a customer at the counter who bought 3 oil filters for an 09 Avalon because he keeps finding metal shavings in them. And we had a brand new Tundra with the new 4.6 in the shop. It had 3-400 miles and the CEL was on. Not unheard of until the same thing was noticed. Aluminum shavings in the oil filter. Toyota tech line's response? Change the oil and send it on it's way.:spin:Then, of course, you have the early-mid 2000 Tacomas with rotting frames. And Tundra's of the same vintage are having the same issues popping up. The immediate future may not be looking good for them, IMO. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Selling your soul to gain the whole world has these kinds of consequences. Quality tends to fall when you are working so hard on selling out. One of the big reasons I lament the '10 Legacy chasing the camry as an also-ran, instead of focusing on being a superior value, with superior quality, even if it doesn't sell huge numbers of units to people just looking to spend the least number of dollars for a car that happens to be on the lot that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azca Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 toyota died after they stopped making supra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonman586 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 toyota died after they stopped making supra They were found with stg4 cancer after they did that. They died at the end of the mr2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Quality tends to fall when you are working so hard on selling out. Indeed, Toyota is aware of this, thus they have changed their goal from being #1 to ensuring that they have good products. GM has shown how you can fall from number 1. That being said, my sister has a 4Runner with 120k on the clock, no major problems. My parents both have Lexuses and my moms has had way fewer problems than her previous RX did. Actually, I don't think that she has had any. All routine maintence so far. My dad hasn't had his that long. I drove an ES 350 yesterday and I was really impressed. Of course, it is not a sporty vehicle. However, it is definately more than a Camry. Elegant is the word I would use to describe the inside and out. Just thought that I would share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs753 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Build quality is so-so.Design quality is down on just about everything except the Prius.After comparing an Accord next to a Camry it makes me wonder why anyone buys a Camry.So much hard touch plastic and faux-velor interiors.The fit and finish on the Accord is a hands down winner. The frame rust...it's your fault is you don't wash your damn truck.The undercaot procedure for this, has got to be the most sloppy and messy fix I have ever seen.It stays tacky all the time,has like a 104 degree flash point and drips everywhere.Had a couple of customers complain that it trashed the garage floor.One guys dog went under his truck after a spay and it got the tar all over it's fur.One poor guy made the mistake of taking his truck to the beach and had and inch thick layer of sand under his entire truck...after which he wanted us to removed the undercoat. Floormats?Either you have situational awareness or you don't. Overall they are reliable enough,easy to fix and predictable ...except for the big F-ing Tundras,every tech in the shop despises the Tundras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have long been amazed at how Toyota has dodged bad press on some of their products. The frame issue on Tacoma's was kept pretty quiet in the press. Now NHTSA is investigating the same issue with Tundra? I've owned three Toyota trucks, all three were rust buckets, including my 99 Tacoma. The Tacoma also had it share of mechanical issues, headgaskets, clutch, broken leaf springs among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 The Accord is is still a great car. They have personality and when driven spirited they are rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs753 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 FWIW,the only claims my FTR says they have seen for rust perforation,has been from Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 The frame rust...it's your fault is you don't wash your damn truck.The undercaot procedure for this, has got to be the most sloppy and messy fix I have ever seen.It stays tacky all the time,has like a 104 degree flash point and drips everywhere.Had a couple of customers complain that it trashed the garage floor.One guys dog went under his truck after a spay and it got the tar all over it's fur.One poor guy made the mistake of taking his truck to the beach and had and inch thick layer of sand under his entire truck...after which he wanted us to removed the undercoat. I live in PA which is a state that is very liberal with it's salt and brine use and I've never heard of any other OE's having rotting frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 they have problems with quality probably because they were built here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 A machinist I work with bought an '04 Tundra about 2 weeks ago. He took it to be inspected and it failed for frame rot. Poor guy... I noticed that you can buy even an American car and get way more for your money than Toyota vehicles. For example, my GF has an '07 Corolla. It has a 1.8L engine, 5 speed transmission, AC, power windows and locks and that's it for features. No XM or Sirius Radio, no traction control, no trip computer, no ABS (No ABS, WTF?!?!), no side airbags, no keyless entry, no cruise control, no anything. The CD player won't even read MP3 CD's. My friend has an '09 Cobalt (I hate that car). It's got a 2.2L engine (Even though it's slow as hell, way slower than the 'Rolla), bluetooth capability, keyless entry, ABS, power windows and locks, traction control, cruise control, steering wheel controls for the bluetooth, trip computer, cruise control, guage info, fuel mileage compter, and radio, alloy wheels, spoiler, XM/Sirius Radio, OnStar, side air bags, and a bunch of other stuff for around the same price (A little more expensive. You could probably get the Cobalt for the same price as the Corolla if you didn't get the spoiler or alloy wheels. Don't get me wrong, I hate the car and it's lethargic drivetrain, but it's jam packed with features. The Corolla also makes squeks and rattles all the time, the clutch makes noise when you step on it, the engine itself makes rattling noises, and the alternator is so weak whenever the electric fans kick on for the radiator (Which is LITERALLY every 10 seconds) the lights dim like the battery dropped down to 10 volts. Toyota has gone way down. It pisses me off that they claim their cars are such a good value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtP Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 toyota died after they stopped importing the MR2 Turbo fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 My 2007 Tundra Limited double cab 4X4 with the 5.7L has been bullet proof so far for 30K miles. So far it is easily the best vehicle I have ever owned. I have heard of the issues with the new 4.6L V8 offered in the truck now. Apparently the CEL's are caused by particualtes in the oil making it into the cam timing modules and plugging them up. This is from a manufacturing defect in some of the seals leaving too much material that ends up in the oil, and the fix is to change the oil to rid the crankcase and oil pan of the particualtes. Of course the most obvious solution to me is to always buy the big stick and get the 5.7L V8 since the 4.6L is still a whimpy little turd for a vehicle that large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 My 2007 Tundra Limited double cab 4X4 with the 5.7L has been bullet proof so far for 30K miles. So far it is easily the best vehicle I have ever owned. I have heard of the issues with the new 4.6L V8 offered in the truck now. Apparently the CEL's are caused by particualtes in the oil making it into the cam timing modules and plugging them up. This is from a manufacturing defect in some of the seals leaving too much material that ends up in the oil, and the fix is to change the oil to rid the crankcase and oil pan of the particualtes. Of course the most obvious solution to me is to always buy the big stick and get the 5.7L V8 since the 4.6L is still a whimpy little turd for a vehicle that large. What makes me say the QC is gone is that it wasn't just that truck with the 4.6. We had a guy with an Avalon earlier that same day with the exact same complaint.:spin:And the Avalon's (and maybe the V6 Camry, I'm not sure on that) are having more oil control issues causing bottom ends to blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Car companies are hurting so bad...they have to save cost somewhere....too bad for the us its quality. However, I'm still heavily considering a new Highlander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 My 2007 Tundra Limited double cab 4X4 with the 5.7L has been bullet proof so far for 30K miles. So far it is easily the best vehicle I have ever owned. I have heard of the issues with the new 4.6L V8 offered in the truck now. Apparently the CEL's are caused by particualtes in the oil making it into the cam timing modules and plugging them up. This is from a manufacturing defect in some of the seals leaving too much material that ends up in the oil, and the fix is to change the oil to rid the crankcase and oil pan of the particualtes. Of course the most obvious solution to me is to always buy the big stick and get the 5.7L V8 since the 4.6L is still a whimpy little turd for a vehicle that large. I won't pretend that I know a whole lot about V8 engines, but I do find it interesting that Toyota has seperate V8s for its trucks/SUVs and Lexus sedans have their own. It would seem to me that sharing engines rather than designing seperate ones would save costs and perhaps lead to better engines. Other companies do this. But, maybe the 5.7L for example doesn't have the smooth factor that they want for a Lexus? Thoughts? Car companies are hurting so bad...they have to save cost somewhere....too bad for the us its quality. However' date=' I'm still heavily considering a new Highlander.[/quote'] My sister in law just got a Highlander and she really likes it. 3.3L uses too much gas though she says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Car companies are hurting so bad...they have to save cost somewhere....too bad for the us its quality. However' date=' I'm still heavily considering a new Highlander.[/quote'] Another factor to count in are disgruntled factory workers that knows that they are going to be sacked. How many quality problems can be related to that? The reason that I bring this up is that I did hear from my uncle who is working for a world-wide company (not named here) that especially US workers have a reputation for slacking off or even sabotage products if they know they are going to get sacked. I can't tell if this is actually the truth, but metal shavings appearing for no obvious reason than laziness seems to be an indicator. And then people wonder why US products are hard to sell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I won't pretend that I know a whole lot about V8 engines, but I do find it interesting that Toyota has seperate V8s for its trucks/SUVs and Lexus sedans have their own. It would seem to me that sharing engines rather than designing seperate ones would save costs and perhaps lead to better engines. Other companies do this. But, maybe the 5.7L for example doesn't have the smooth factor that they want for a Lexus? Thoughts? The big difference between the 5.7L and the other corporate V8's meant for passenger cars (other than displacement) is the 5.7L has the cams set up and timed for low and mid range torque production. The 5.7L makes peak torque at 3600 RPM's whereas the 4.6L Lexus unit makes peak torque at 4100 RPM's, the 5.7L also makes higher peak torque (no replacement for displacement in this instance). This is what you are looking for with a truck engine though, nice power in the low to mid RPM range for towing and hauling. For comparison the 5.7L makes 401lb-ft by 3600 RPM's which translates to roughly 275hp at 3600 RPM's, the 4.6L Lexus isn't doing too bad either with 369lb-ft at 4100 RPM's for 288hp. Interestingly peak horsepower for the two is also roughly 500 RPM's higher on the Lexus. The Lexus makes slightly higher peak horsepower indicating better torque production in the higher reaches of the RPM range. Other than these differences the architecture is the same for all the "UR" family of V8's. I do wish that Toyota had included direct injection on the 5.7L since it would allow a higher static compression ratio for more power and better fuel economy. I would guestimate that a bit over 400hp and 450lb-ft would be doable within the same operating range with DI on the motor, and fuel economy would probably be improved by around 7-10%. Such an option would add to the price though, and Toyota is already sinking a lot of money into the Tundra running gear compared to other trucks. Who else offers a DOHC 32V V8 with dual VVT-i, and variable induction manifold, backed up with a 6 speed auto with standard 4.30:1 gearing in a 10.5" rear end (3/4 ton axle) in a 1/2 ton truck? Sure I wish some of the interior materials were nicer like the dash plastics, but given a choice between a slightly more plush interior or a state of the art powertrain I'll go for the mechanical goodness every time where a truck is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 It's interesting that the other UR engines recieved DI, but not the 5.7L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I live in PA which is a state that is very liberal with it's salt and brine use and I've never heard of any other OE's having rotting frames. We have an '89 Power Ram used here exclusively for plowing the lot, the frame is solid. I think the fully boxed frames we see now are much more prone due to the fact everything gets trapped in there. The old Ram has a C section frame from the cab rearward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I had a 1990 Dodge W350 pickup truck, so I know what you mean when you say the old Dodge C section frames are solid. I don't think it's a problem with the box frames though. There are box frames out there that don't rot. The GMC Safari vans and the Chevy Astrovan use box frames and those things last 200-300K miles. My friend had one that I did an astronomical amount of work to with 250K miles. All the stuff was basic maintenance (+brake lines, a starter, a throttle body rebuild, and a power steering pump). That thing had a fully boxed frame and the original paint wasn't even flaking off. The wierd part was that van sat in tall (3 feet +) grass for years, rotting the rocker panels out. The rockers rotted away and the frame rails still had rust on them. Ahh... Don't ya miss the days when you could get a RWD van that seated 8 with a pushrod V6 and a ladder frame? Me too..... Likewise I have a 1986 F150 with a C section frame that's cracked. Go figure. It's the luck of the draw really, except with the Toyota's... That's just unacceptable. Trucks 4-5 years old with rotted frames from a Japanese manufacturer who claims reliability and dependability every chance they get? Unacceptable. They should be ashamed. Gone are the days of the Toyota T100 (Also boxed frame) and the original Hilux. In fact, the Hilux and the T100 are the only Toyota trucks I would spend money on. That was back when dependability meant something to Toyota, now it's nothing more than a selling point, convincing people that their new cars are a long lasting cars with good value, using their older models as staples to prove their point. Remember the commercials where they destroyed old Hilux trucks claiming that the new Tacoma's and Tundras will take the same punishment? They flipped them over, crashed them into trees, bashed them all up then got into the truck and started the engine right up. Yeah, that was before they dropped the ball, now they can't even find it. If they really wanted to make a point, they would've done the same thing with one of their new trucks. Then again, their new trucks are mostly plastic with crumple zones and thin sheet metal. Plus, the engine will cut out as soon as the airbags go off anyway, that is if the engine doesn't break away from it's mounts to reduce impact forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Commercials? Hell, that was Top Gear! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrk6vsb77xk]YouTube- Top Gear - killing a Toyota pt 1 - BBC[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AShoe Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yeah. I've got a 93 land cruiser and it's solid as a rock. I've never had a problem with it. A friend of mine has a 05 tundra that has been nothing but trouble. Its not because of how I treat it either. Their older vehicles just seem to handle a lot more abuse. Sad because Toyota used to make some of my favorite vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 they have problems with quality probably because they were built here. Your lack of faith in your fellow American's to produce a quality product is sad and ironic, especially since our Legacy is built in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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