Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and DW750s

[LittleBlueGT]

I keep coming back to this thread, learned a lot from it, thank you for writing it!!!

 

Oh, there is much more to come. Unfortunately.

[GTTuner]

Yes, lots of good stuff here. Question; When you tune with alky injection are you trying to run more boost but with less fuel?

[LittleBlueGT]

Yes, lots of good stuff here. Question; When you tune with alky injection are you trying to run more boost but with less fuel?

 

I will post up my fuel tables for both when the time comes.

 

I do run more boost on alky, and I do run less fuel (as on higher numerical AFR).

 

On pump I run 11.2 tapering to 11:1. On alky I run about 13:1 AFR fuel, combined with the meth comes out to a measured 12:1 AFR from the WB.

[LittleBlueGT]

Time to update all the crap I went through (bigger injectors were the biggest PITA for me).

 

Everything about the DW850s was fine, except when I started tuning the higher end of my MAF it started to lean out. I was truly bewildered. I do not believe it is fuel pressure. The hose going from the intake mani to the FPR was always there. The lean spike was specific to a certain rpm, not a MAFv range. It was about 5000-6000 rpm. It was always within that range, and a little unpredictable depending on temp. W/o going into huge detail I theorize it has something to do with my fuel rails, and a resonance between them and the injectors, and/or fuel dampers. Others have had this same problem, and they just compensated in the pri fuel table. That is fine, but I hated it! I also don't really need bigger then 650s for my set-up an alky. So I sold them and bought DW650 red-tops.

 

You can read about the fueling anomalies with the 850s here, in poarts of NSFW's thread:

 

NSFW's thread on RR, this page is where I chime in w/ my issues

 

All is well, right? NO!

 

Even though this would be the 4th set of injectors in my car, something weird seemed to happen on the install of the 650s. I installed them and went out to tune the low end of the MAF, all was well. I then went home, put in the WB, and it was obvious something drastic happened.

 

You can read about it here:

 

Injectors - What the heck - baffling myself here

[LittleBlueGT]

On to better stuff.

 

New FPR in, car is working good.

 

I scale the med-high end of MAF on my drive to work today, and all is predictable, repeatable, just like the OEM injectors. Finally!

 

 

My latencies for the DW650s:

 

11.5 volts = 1.77 in ST in RR 1.13

14 volts = 1.42 is ST in RR 0.91

16 volts = 1.28 in ST in RR 0.82

 

They happen to be much higher then OEM (just like what I found with the DW850s). Actually according to how I tune latency the OEM tune w/ OEM injectors is too low on latency. I am open to any other theories, or things that can be impacting it.

 

For reference here is a chart from DW saying what they believe the latencies to be:

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/DWInjectorLatencysheet.jpg

 

I did the same thing as I did with the DW850s:

 

low rpm 2.5 - 2.9 volts --> compared to high rpm in the same voltage range.

 

I even used my WB to confirm.

[j255c]

post up your base timing and advance

[LittleBlueGT]

post up your base timing and advance

 

You don't want to see how crappy our gas is. I will show you tomorrow.

[j255c]

I show you mine . But i run 93+90% meth and a splash of water.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/c0lbyj/timingtable-1.jpg

[LittleBlueGT]

This is my craptastic pump tune. 10 rising to 15 at red-line. And I still get the odd bit knock if I beat on it for more then about 15 secs straight (3-4th gear pull).

 

Boost on pump is 20 tapering to 14 psi, but I still hit 4.84 volts on the K&N. When I was tapering to 15 psi I couldn't seem to get the knock out at all. I hate hate hate our gas! This is in 30-40 F weather too.

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/Oct09pumppriign.jpg

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/Oct09pumpdynadv.jpg

[05pearl]

^^ is the spool of the 68hta noticeably earlier than the avo 380 or do you only "see" the difference in your logs?

[LittleBlueGT]

^^ is the spool of the 68hta noticeably earlier than the avo 380 or do you only "see" the difference in your logs?

 

I don't have the hta68 in yet. So I don't know.

[j255c]

This is my craptastic pump tune. 10 rising to 15 at red-line. And I still get the odd bit knock if I beat on it for more then about 15 secs straight (3-4th gear pull).

 

Boost on pump is 20 tapering to 14 psi, but I still hit 4.84 volts on the K&N. When I was tapering to 15 psi I couldn't seem to get the knock out at all. I hate hate hate our gas! This is in 30-40 F weather too.

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/Oct09pumppriign.jpg

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/Oct09pumpdynadv.jpg

 

Timing looks super low. I thought you had a meth setup, you should be able to run atleast 18up top id imagine.

[LittleBlueGT]

Timing looks super low. I thought you had a meth setup, you should be able to run atleast 18up top id imagine.

 

With meth I run 15 rising to 21/22 at redline. (all on AVO380)

[tommypenguin]

I don't have the hta68 in yet. So I don't know.

 

When are you planning on getting the 68 in?

[Infamous1]

With meth I run 15 rising to 21/22 at redline. (all on AVO380)

Have you ever experimented with race fuel? That is very low timing.

[LittleBlueGT]

Have you ever experimented with race fuel? That is very low timing.

 

I am just testing things right now. I never ran my AVO380 above WG boost before due to OEM injectors. This is the first time I have turned it up.

 

I have torco, and I have experimented before with toluene. It helps a lot.

 

I hope the new TMIC and hta68 will be a bit more efficient. Either way, 99% of the time I will be running the alky map.

 

FWIW the 09 WRX w/ major boost creep issues is currently at about the same timing as me (less load though, 293 g/s). I have instructed the owner not to take it above 5000 rpm till we get a better TMIC on there.

 

The only local cars I have tuned that run decent timing (like the logs I always see posted on Nasioc) are the ones that use 94 octane gas. Only two stations around that have that, both 1/2 hr from where I live.

[LittleBlueGT]

I wish I had more to report, but I have been having injector issues (should have just stuck with stock injectors and injected 800 cc/min of 80% meth, then I would have enough fuel).

 

Read all about injector problems here:

 

Injectors - What the heck - baffling myself here

[LittleBlueGT]

What I have done, and learned in the past few weeks:

 

APS inlet and HTA68 on my car fits just as bad as the AVO380 and APS inlet:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/IMG_2911.jpg

 

I took out the non-TGVs (TGV deletes just sounds weird), and ground down as much from the circles area (in red) as I could, and did the same on the intake manifold:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/APSinlet.jpg

[LittleBlueGT]

I have the set-up from: baldyiv

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1818_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1814_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1823_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1813_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1816_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1819_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1822_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1831_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1829_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1826_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1827_1.jpg

 

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af347/baldyiv/IMG_1828_1.jpg

 

 

I have noticed that the internal fins are not as good as the Perrin unit:

 

There was a thread on NASIOC about this, I couldn't find it, but suffice it to say that the fin density is about 1/2 of a good TMIC. How much of a difference this makes, I don't know. Will it make much difference on alky, I also don't know.

 

I can say that the HTA68 spools up a few hundred rpm faster then the AVO380, proof will come soon.

[ClimberDHexMods]

What I have done, and learned in the past few weeks:

 

APS inlet and HTA68 on my car fits just as bad as the AVO380 and APS inlet:

 

 

I took out the non-TGVs (TGV deletes just sounds weird), and ground down as much from the circles area (in red) as I could, and did the same on the intake manifold:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/APSinlet.jpg

 

This area circled in Red, I ground it off to the point where it would not be wise to go any further without weakening the threading. It helped a lot for me and my 3" APS inlet. The good news: My Perrin 3" fits worse than the APS, but I can't speak for 2.4". The 3" is on a TD-06 20g, also from FP. I think the hard coolant line they use on their Mitsu CHRAs is the culprit, at least it is one mine, sits hard against the trans.

[Guest]

Perrin 2.4" inlet fit is pretty good.

[NSFW]

I'm pretty sure that "inlet fitment" actually has a lot to do with the turbocharger's exhaust housing - that's what determines where the turbocharger's compressor inlet sits, relative to the rest of the engine.

 

ATP's exhaust housing puts the compressor inlet in a place where my 3" inlet has only minor interference with the bottom of the manifold / top of the TGVs.

[ClimberDHexMods]

Perrin 2.4" inlet fit is pretty good.

 

Are you referring to your OEM IHI VF-series TS turbo or other Mitsu turbos with Mitsu CHRAs you have seen? As I see it, the problem is not the Perrin or the APS inlet, but instead the fact that some Mitsu turbos can't move far enough over to the driver side to line up with the oem location of the inlet, thus pushing the inlet tube against the TGVs. Like I said, I have not seen 2.4" inlets on 2.4" mitsu turbos, and I recognice different mitsu turbos will fit differently, but just wanted to contribute what I can, hopefully it explains it.

[John M]

My Green can't move any more towards the drivers side because the compressor housing hits something -- I think it was the transmission or bell housing. I actually had to slot the up pipe bracket to allow it to move 1/4 inch toward the passenger side so everything would fit where it was supposed to.

 

I also think fitment would improve if we could get a flexible coolant line. I had to wrangle mine a bit to make sure the turbo could sit flush and still be able to get the rubber line connected to it. There's a lot going on in that area next to the oil supply banjo!

[LittleBlueGT]

Still waiting on injector issues, but I thought I would show a bit of info into how it spools. Most of these plots were don in the 40s. (3rd gear)

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/boostMAF.gif

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/boostMAF2.gif

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/boostMAF3.gif

 

This one was in 4th gear (15 psi by 2500 rpm!):

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/boostMAF4.gif

 

You will notice the boost is very erratic (especially in 4th gear), despite (not shown) a very very stable WGDC. I used a bleed style of boost control with the EWG.

 

With the AVO380 I used this style of boost control to great very very stable success:

 

AVO380 w/ 0% WGDC

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/AVO380WGboost.gif

 

But the only problem was a 0% WGDC curve that went from 18 psi tapering to 15. I put in a bigger restrictor pill to ensure that 0% WGDC (alky failsafe really) would be a flat 15 psi. It worked, but now the combination of roughly 50% WGDC and an EWG seems to resonate. It is funny, cause a ran into a similiar resonance in cold temps with my buddies WRX.

 

For me the easily solution will be to run a MBC with a 3-port blocking solenoid (hybrid style). High throttle level will see 100% WGDC, and then if the alky failsafe trips in, it will be down to WG boost value only.

 

It is interesting that my (and I assume every) Tial EWG does not seal completely. If I blow into the bottom port, it slowly loses pressure. That is why the boost tends to rise a bit with a bleed style boost control, then fall back down. Bigger restrictor solves that problem.

 

You will also notice that the HTA68 spools a couple of hundred rpm faster then the AVO380.

 

In fact (and more importantly IMO) it spools very very well in 2nd gear (maybe 350 rpm faster then the AVO380):

 

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/boostMAF2ndgear.gif

 

I really wish I could get injectors working well, this graphs were just done on OEM injectors. Soon I should have this sorted out, and have some real fun!