Brakes and handling weak for GT's????

[trm]

it's the natural tendency of Subaru cars to understeer into corner...it's not as tossable into corner yes ...but it's best ability is to exit the corner really fast.....it's mostly due to it's AWD/engine design.....it trasfers torque to four wheels really well, but only do that after slippage is detected.....

 

 

it's just a different driving machine that you have to get used to if you coming from RWD.....might be awkward at first, but i swear you'll love it more when you hit surfaces that's not perfectly dry:cool:

[RobY]

spec B is a diffrent machine... 276hp around the same WT MUCH MUCH MUCH better tires and supension.

 

Knowing the diffrences between JDM and USDM and the fact that it was done around a short track, the audi weighs over 2 tons and audi tends to overrate... Its plausable.

 

However I have been amazed to as how well subarus in general mod in engine and suspension. Lets see what the aftermarket will come out with to really bring out the capabilities of the chasis. Only time will tell.

[bikerboi911]

I am comparing the Legacy GT to my BMW when it was stock as they are both 4-door vehicles, about the same size, almost the same price, and I figure the GT was meant to go up against the IS300, 325i, G35, Maxima SE, Altima SE/SE-R, TSX, A4, and maybe a TL. They are all so close in price and meant to be "Sport Sedans" . The GT will out accelerate every last one but can't compare in handling to most of them. It's almost a $31,000 car with a very sporty nature. You would not compare a 2.5i or Outback for sure, but this is the sporty version of the vehicle. That is the justification for me to compare or expect more in braking and handling.

[Parousia]

I dont agree at all....

 

The Legacy out performs and out handles the G35, the Maxima, and the Altima, I test drove all of them before I bought the Legacy GT.

 

I have never driven the TSX but its a much smaller car as is the IS300 and the 325I.

 

Parousia

 

Edit It also out performs and out handles the TL and the Audi... the stock AudiA4 drives like a Boat compared to the stock GT, and the handling on the TL is very much like the Honda Accord..... not like the GT.

[bikerboi911]

Quite a few of you mentioned changing the rear sway bar. How exactly does this mod help and is it a drastic improvement? It makes perfect sense to me why springs alone would kill the handling. You would kill quite a bit of the stock suspension upward travel and take them out of their natural resting position. The car seems to be a tight structure and not have too much flex. I would think strut/shock tower braces would be a complete waste of money and offer very little to no improvement at all. I just want a fun, daily driver that is perfectly streetable. Do stainless steel brake lines cure the spongy brake pedal problem?

[bikerboi911]

Parousia, I have driven them all.......That's how I can say with confidence that those cars offer far more tenacious grip than the GT. The GT handles good until you get near it's relatively low limits (probably tire related). The G35 can be pushed much harder in turns without a fear of understeering or oversteering. I am a complete turn junky and live for backroads, that's why I ride sport bikes. I felt far more confident pushing those other vehicles harder in turns. I picked the Legacy over them for it's engine, reliability, AWD, and style. I have no regrets buying the car but just want to improve what it lacks in my opinion.

[blue dragon]

=

 

As far as the Legacy's brakes, tires stop the car.

Kevin

 

Tires stop the car, but they only come into play if you are engaging the ABS. This would mean that the tires aren't gripping. If the stock pad isn't engaging ABS when hard on the brakes before diving into a corner, then a pad change to one with a higher friction coefficient is in order.

 

I am a believer of the slow in fast out strategy for corners. I do not trail brake, because

(a) I am not experienced enough yet

(b) Coming from a rear wheel drive car, trail braking is asking for a spin.

 

This just means that I am hard on the brakes in a straight line before the corner, and the legacy's stock pads just don't seem up to the task.

[bikerboi911]

Those are my feelings as well. The ABS has never kicked in for me, the car just does not scrub of the speed quickly enough. The brakes feel as if the car weighs too much for them to stop quickly. That was why I asked if someone tried hawk or EBC pads to see if it helped. I didn't see how tires would make a big difference if the ABS had not come into play. I use the same method of braking hard before turn entry. I more or less use many of the same rules associated with brake and throttle control of sport bikes.

[gtguy]

Tires stop the car, but they only come into play if you are engaging the ABS. This would mean that the tires aren't gripping. If the stock pad isn't engaging ABS when hard on the brakes before diving into a corner, then a pad change to one with a higher friction coefficient is in order.

 

I am a believer of the slow in fast out strategy for corners. I do not trail brake, because

(a) I am not experienced enough yet

(b) Coming from a rear wheel drive car, trail braking is asking for a spin.

 

This just means that I am hard on the brakes in a straight line before the corner, and the legacy's stock pads just don't seem up to the task.

 

We should agree to disagree, Blue Dragon.

 

Kevin

[PGT]

I have used EBC pads and rotors on a previous car. Let's just say I was buying Brembo rotors and Akebono pads 6 months later after the EBC's became so unsafe and undriveable, I parked the car until I had cash to pay a second time. Never on a track...commuting only

 

As for the LGT setup, I have yet to engage ABS in dry conditions with the RE92's, SO-3's or Kumho ASX mounted. New pads may make a difference, but until somebody shows me quantifiable positive results, I'll save my money. Not every part you can spend money improves the car.

[lemming]

We should agree to disagree, Blue Dragon.

 

Kevin

 

i'm with gtguy on this one.

 

it isn't as though bmw's don't understeer, too. especially the M cars with staggered wheel size setups.

[imperator]

I am comparing the Legacy GT to my BMW when it was stock as they are both 4-door vehicles, about the same size, almost the same price, and I figure the GT was meant to go up against the IS300, 325i, G35, Maxima SE, Altima SE/SE-R, TSX, A4, and maybe a TL. They are all so close in price and meant to be "Sport Sedans" . The GT will out accelerate every last one but can't compare in handling to most of them. It's almost a $31,000 car with a very sporty nature. You would not compare a 2.5i or Outback for sure, but this is the sporty version of the vehicle. That is the justification for me to compare or expect more in braking and handling.

 

I was under the impression from various articles quoting Subaru sources that the Legacy performance targets were BMW 5-series, Audi A6, Volvo S60, etc, i.e., larger sedans. The WRX is targeted at the models you named. In this respect Subaru mops both fields. Just because the Legacy is a bargain, price doesn't change it's category to equate with an Accord or Sentra. The amount of car I got with the LGT for $23,000 is incredible in my opinion, but that doesn't make it the categorical equivalent of a Hyundai.

 

That being said, let's see some numbers people. The battle of "well I drove a Maxima and that's faster", "No a LGT feels much faster" is silly. There are published tests with data out there, which is generally considered a more reliable indicator of performance than driver impressions.

 

Here's my contribution:

C&D reports a skidpad of 0.81 for the LGT Limited . Appalling.

[XT6Wagon]

brakes work even stock, Just have to stand on the pedal.... Takes alot of force to get the last bit of stopping out of them.

 

However the pads are horrible. Brake early and use engine braking if using them for a track day. On the other hand it may have helped my driving alot as you can see just how badly you are clowning people in the corners if you have to give them a free 100+ feet by having to start braking earlier... then you are right back on them after that first corner. So the POS brakes forced me to be smoother and usualy come off the brakes earlier and smoother before/during entering the corners.

[Parousia]

Parousia, I have driven them all.......That's how I can say with confidence that those cars offer far more tenacious grip than the GT. The GT handles good until you get near it's relatively low limits (probably tire related). The G35 can be pushed much harder in turns without a fear of understeering or oversteering. I am a complete turn junky and live for backroads, that's why I ride sport bikes. I felt far more confident pushing those other vehicles harder in turns. I picked the Legacy over them for it's engine, reliability, AWD, and style. I have no regrets buying the car but just want to improve what it lacks in my opinion.

 

Check out this quote before you assert so strongly that the Legacy is not a great @ handling and stopping....

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1589&page_number=2

 

BTW this is Road and Track (Feb 7 2005)

 

"Although the Subaru Legacy GT out-pointed the TSX in this test primarily because of its decidedly faster acceleration and slightly better performances in the slalom and skipdpad (largely because of its better tires), I'll still take the TSX"

 

The quantitative handling data are fascinating — for what they don't show. You'll note the Subaru beat the Acura in the slalom, 64.9 mph versus 64.0 mph, significant but not exactly a thumping. And around the skidpad, they were even closer: the GT Limited's 0.79g versus the TSX's 0.78g.

 

 

"On the road, though, in real driving, the cars were as different in feel as chalk and cheese. The Subaru's all-wheel drive gave it a balance through corners that contrasted with the Acura's overwhelming push. By contrast, the Acura turned-in nicely with a surgical feel, and its steering communicated this very well."

 

Parousia

 

As I stated I drove ALL of the above vehicles as well, and I still stick to my statements that most of them with the exception of the BMW and the IS300 handle much worse than the Legacy GT.

 

BTW the conclusion of the matter according to Road and Track

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1589&page_number=5

 

The Legacy comes in 1st place ... 585 points to 578 points

[phuzaxeman]

altima? maxima? bmw? handling? change the tires to some "real" performance ones. i test drove the is300, friend has a 325i, and my other friend has the new altima and the legacy handles just as good if not better than all of those mentioned. stock tires don't do justice to subaru's AWD technology.

[fan42025]

Parousia, I have driven them all.......That's how I can say with confidence that those cars offer far more tenacious grip than the GT. The GT handles good until you get near it's relatively low limits (probably tire related).

 

Have no such trouble with the RE050A tires. So, it's certainly the tires that make the difference more than anything else. Not sure if this matters but the 215s are not as wide as those on virtually all the cars we are comparing. I remember with my last car when I put on fatter tires it made a hell of a difference in grip and cornering.

 

As for stopping power, it's amazing. I had an emergency stomp on the pedal to avoid an idiot coming out of a side street. I was traveling around 80-90 kph and stopped just in time as he stopped in front of me like a stunned rabbit. To this day I can’t understand how I did it as the distance was so short it surprised the both of us.

[bikerboi911]

Look at a Lotus Elise......It does not have wide ass tires but manages to outhandle just about anything on the road. It has 195/50/16's up front and 225/45/17's in back. Relatively small in comparison to many cars but non existant compared to the best of the best. Then again it weighs a mere 2200lbs. One of the best handling cars I ever owned was a 93 MR2 with 215 and 235's, a sports car once again but extremely capable in the twisties. 215's are a decent size tire and should be wide enough to give better handling than they do. I think the stock tires on my BMW were only 215/60/16's, it didn't have the sport package.

 

We can all sit and argue all day about what car we think handles better. We all have different ideas of what it means to handle better. We also all have different levels of skill to get the most out of our cars. I am not used to an AWD car and more used to rear wheel drive. I am used to using oversteer to my advantage and have had very few cars that understeered. This GT is one of around 20 cars I have owned personally. I am not by any means a professional level driver but by far much better than average. I do believe I push my cars to levels most owners will never even dream of and that may be a reason most don't share the same complaints. I drive my cars hard for own enjoyment, you won't see me at stoplights provoking others for a nice little drag race. Anyone can go fast in a straight line and that's why I prefer the twisties. Just like a motorcycle, you will never see me on a highway with it, only backroads or a track.

[Ninjapimp]

Have no such trouble with the RE050A tires.

 

I wish I had those. I'll never forget the 5th day of having my car. Both my friend in an IS300 (who has the RE050A) and I hammered it from a roll then slammed the brakes due to a red light. He braked perfectly in time for the light and I LITERALLY skipped right through the intersection.

 

Granted we've got different braking systems, but there is no better real-life demonstration to show you how rubber is such an important factor in braking!

[PKs17]

The BMW was built ground up to be a top performing car. Look at its 50/50 weight distribution, its short overhangs, over size brakes(even on base model bimmers), RWD setup. They are the ultimate driving machine, like the ads say. I dont think there is a better Fun/DD family car out there for the money.

Too bad most of us cant afford to own one.

[robitrice]

holy thread revival.......6yrs really