New Bilstein HDs and Eibachs -- will the fronts settle a bit?

[JohnSoPA]

I just finished installing a Bilstein HD kit (from Jeremy at Fred Beans) along with Eibachs (from Tire Rack) on my '05 Legacy GT Wagon.

 

I drove around for about 50 miles over two or three drives today, retorqueing bolts, etc. in between.

 

I have 3/8" "saggy butt" spacers in the back. The rear end has settled nicely (mostly the rubber spring seat, I'd bet) to just under 2 fingers. Perfect for me.

 

The front gaps, however, are just over 3 fingers on both sides -- very even, but too high. Nothing is binding; the spring is turned fully clockwise to seat just before the lip on the spring seat area. The strut rod is seated properly in the top spring seat. I used the included Spec-B strut tops without the cone spacer. The strut tops are fully engaged into the strut towers.

 

Basically, the front is just as high as it was stock.

 

Would you expect the fronts to settle over time (few days to few weeks) but the rears not to settle at all (or at least less than the fronts)?

[goneskiian]

The fronts will not likely settle much more than that.

 

As far as I have deduced the Eibach springs where designed to be used with the stock KYB struts not the Bilsteins with spec b top hats. Basically your only option for aftermarket struts would be the Koni's because the use the stock strut "housing".

 

There are quite a few springs that were designed to be used with those struts. Ion, Swift, STi "pinks" to name a few (although Ion makes some for either strut so be specific).

 

Cheers!

[BradyCat]

Yep, Eibach's weren't designed specifically for the Bilsteins, and although they will ride very nice, I'm not surprised the front has a little more wheel gap than the rear. Fred Beans lists the drop f/r @ 1"/.8", which is for the KYB's. Due to the inverted design of the front Bilsteins, the drop will be less.

[JohnSoPA]

If what you both are saying pans out, then this is a bummer. The ride quality is phenomenal. A little firmer than stock but much less harshness. Dive and squat under braking and acceleration are greatly reduced.

 

It doesn't make much sense. The Eibachs were designed for 1"/0.8 drop F/R with the stock struts/shocks. Several other aftermarket springs show similar relative drops (i.e., the front drops just a bit more than the rear or both drops are close to the same), except for Cobbs where the front is advertised to drop 0.75" more than the rear. So, most people using Bilstein HDs with OE or aftermarket springs (except for Cobbs) would be complaining about huge differences with front vs rear heights.

 

I just measured the current drop (12 hours and 50 miles after installation) -- I have 2" of gap up front and 1" in the back. Remember, I have 3/8" saggy butt spacers in the rear. Without these, the difference would be about 1.5".

 

I'm going to wait another week or so, but I am guessing I won't see much settling on the front at all. If this is true, I see a few options:

 

1. Lower the front Bilstein HD spring perch by about an inch. Grind off the current welds and have a friend weld them back on.

 

2. Cut maybe half a coil off the Eibachs in the front. I don't really like this idea since it'll increase the front spring rate.

 

3. Get some other springs but given my thinking above, unless I get Cobbs, I think I'll have the same problem.

 

4. Possibly have the top of the strut rod machined to lower the seating area by the right amount.

 

5. Find some other top hats that have another 0.5" to 1" of clearance.

 

6. Shave some of the rubber off the top spring mount

 

7. ???

 

What do you think?

[rexster]

Can you post a pic? from what you have listed i would think the car should be fairly level. the rear shims are not quite as thick as the new bilstein front mounts, but the advertised drop up front is 2/10 more than the rear so it should be a near wash. sounds like it should be level.

[BradyCat]

Sell them and go with Pinks or iONS

[katalyst]

:facepalm:

 

i swear i saw another thread with this exact same issue just recently

[goneskiian]

If what you both are saying pans out, then this is a bummer. The ride quality is phenomenal. A little firmer than stock but much less harshness. Dive and squat under braking and acceleration are greatly reduced.

 

It doesn't make much sense. The Eibachs were designed for 1"/0.8 drop F/R with the stock struts/shocks. Several other aftermarket springs show similar relative drops (i.e., the front drops just a bit more than the rear or both drops are close to the same), except for Cobbs where the front is advertised to drop 0.75" more than the rear. So, most people using Bilstein HDs with OE or aftermarket springs (except for Cobbs) would be complaining about huge differences with front vs rear heights.

 

I just measured the current drop (12 hours and 50 miles after installation) -- I have 2" of gap up front and 1" in the back. Remember, I have 3/8" saggy butt spacers in the rear. Without these, the difference would be about 1.5".

 

I'm going to wait another week or so, but I am guessing I won't see much settling on the front at all. If this is true, I see a few options:

 

1. Lower the front Bilstein HD spring perch by about an inch. Grind off the current welds and have a friend weld them back on.

 

2. Cut maybe half a coil off the Eibachs in the front. I don't really like this idea since it'll increase the front spring rate.

 

3. Get some other springs but given my thinking above, unless I get Cobbs, I think I'll have the same problem.

 

4. Possibly have the top of the strut rod machined to lower the seating area by the right amount.

 

5. Find some other top hats that have another 0.5" to 1" of clearance.

 

6. Shave some of the rubber off the top spring mount

 

7. ???

 

What do you think?

 

How about simply replacing the Bils with Koni's? As I mentioned above, the Koni front struts use the stock KYB housings and therefore have the EXACT same measurements, but you get the much improved damping AND adjustability (that the Bils don't offer). Seems way more logical especially if you're considering hacking up the Bills just to get them a bit lower.

 

Cheers!

[m sprank]

Do a search. There are lots of complaints about the "saggy butt" when using Bilsteins. I chose Swift springs (specific to Bilsteins) and still had to use 3/8" spacers to make it sit nicely (on my LGT). My Spec B sits funky (head hi) from the factory. You should look into a set of springs designed for your struts instead of trying to modify them. The springs are the cheapest part, buy another pair and sell the Eibachs.

[sactojesse]

You should look into a set of springs designed for your struts instead of trying to modify them. The springs are the cheapest part, buy another pair and sell the Eibachs.

Agreed. There's no difference between the rear springs, so you could keep the rear springs and just buy new front springs. It's probably easier to sell the whole set of Eibachs and get Pinks or Swifts for the Bilsteins though.

[JohnSoPA]

The front seems to be coming down a little bit. As it is likely not the springs settling, it is likely the new upper spring seat cushioning in. I'll get some pictures tomorrow. At this point, the front is still 3/4" higher than the rear -- and that is with 3/8" "saggy butt spacers" in the rear.

[JohnSoPA]

Here are some quick pics from this evening. Tonight when I put the car in the garage I will measure from the floor to the bottom frame welds front and back to see what the true rake is.

[m sprank]

Thats with the "saggy butt" shims already installed? Eek! I would ditch the Eibachs and get a spring that was meant for your (SpecB) struts.

[JohnSoPA]

Thats with the "saggy butt" shims already installed?

 

Yep -- the 3/8" ones.

 

What doesn't make sense is this...

 

The Bilstein HDs are designed to be used with the OE springs and the SpecB top hats. Therefore, one would assume that this combination would result in a relatively level stance, or at least one that would be corrected with a 3/8" spacer.

 

The Eibach springs are designed to work with OE struts/shocks, with 0.2" more lowering in the front.

 

Therefore, if one uses Bilstein HDs, SpecB top hats and Eibach springs, you should get a relatively level stance, or at least one that is corrected with something like a 3/8" spacer.

[JohnSoPA]

Hmm. I just put the car in the garage and measured from the garage floor to the frame welds just in front of the front jack point and just behind the rear jack point.

 

Guess what?

 

They are even -- both front and rear measured 6-5/8" -- and it's even on both sides, too.

 

Oh, well.

[goneskiian]

That's because the rear wheel well is cut lower than the front. Most people don't ACTUALLY have the rear sagging low, it just looks that way and they prefer it to look raked.

 

Glad to hear they measure out evenly.

 

I'm still going with Koni struts though.

[eqt2010]

Does that mean: Koni Struts/Inserts + Eibach Spring + 3/8" "saggy butt" spacers in the back == even front / rear drop(or gap) on wagon?

[sactojesse]

That's because the rear wheel well is cut lower than the front.

Agreed. My LGT wagon came level front/rear stock, but the wheel gaps were larger in the front (three finger gap front versus two finger gap rear) due to the different "cut" of the rear fender.

[m sprank]

Yes, the fenders are cut different.

 

Yes, the cars are usually flat at the frame rails.

 

Yes most of us like the car to look flat, even if it is just aesthetic.

 

The Koni struts and spring combos should look even. They don't use the SpecB top hat, so springs engineered around the OEM KYB's work great. You should not need any "saggy butt" shims.

 

The rake to the rear becomes more apparent when you switch an LGT to the struts/top hats designed for the Spec B. Look at a SpecB up close. The car looks raked to the rear from the factory. I have both cars, and the LGT is my second one (had an 05 too). The Spec shows the rear rake much more than the other two cars. The LGT needed the shims only after switching to the Tokicos/Swifts/SpecB top hats.

[goneskiian]

Does that mean: Koni Struts/Inserts + Eibach Spring + 3/8" "saggy butt" spacers in the back == even front / rear drop(or gap) on wagon?

I hope so. I'm fairly certain I'm going with this setup. Not sure if I'll go with the 3/8 or the 1/4 spacer though. I'll probably get both and see which one looks the best.

 

I'm using the spacer only because these springs were designed for the sedan and the wagon is a bit heavier in the back. That and I want a bit more clearance when I do load it down.

 

It may be a couple months before I get these. I'll be sure to post my results when I do.

 

Cheers!

[m sprank]

The wagon is only about 60lbs heavier than the sedan. Its all the glass in the back. The wagon spring is like 1/8" longer. You might not need any shims/spacer in the rear for a "flat" look. If you need a little more room for a heavy load, I would try the 1/4" spacers first. The 3/8" ones require new top hat studs, not a big deal.

[rexster]

Hmm. I just put the car in the garage and measured from the garage floor to the frame welds just in front of the front jack point and just behind the rear jack point.

 

Guess what?

 

They are even -- both front and rear measured 6-5/8" -- and it's even on both sides, too.

 

Oh, well.

 

Sounds good to me. your car looks just like mine does. I have the jdm BP pinks and bilstein HDs. it looks lower in back but its level. enjoy the new setup, i'm sure it's 100 million times better than stock...