I want to know what everyone is running: Camber settings on a roadcourse

[Drew888]

Interested to see the different values people are choosing to run and why.

 

I have heard that it's somewhat subjective and I'm looking to understand why.

 

If most things being equal; car, weight, tires, suspension, why is someone claiming to have a very neutral balanced car at say -1.5f/-1.3r while someone else claims the same thing at -2.5f/-2r? Is it more the ratio remaining the same between both that give these drivers the same feeling?

 

If the drivers could also be equal for sake of this argument, then obviously the more negative camber should be the faster car yes? How does the more aggressive alignment affect straight high speed stability/braking?

[Th3Franz]

A lot of factors. Driving style and suspension stiffness play into it the most I would say. Some people like a car to be closer to oversteering at the limit, others not. If you run really stiff springs, big sway bars, and a lot of caster, you can get away with a smaller static camber angle. That said, I'm just shy of 2 degrees negative camber up front and around -1 in the rear. I run offset control arm bushings which added some caster. The tires seem to stay pretty flat through corners and straight line stability is fine.

 

Also, adjusting the toe-in or toe-out of the tires can have a big impact on front and rear balance. People with fully-adjustable coilovers and camber plates can exceed 3 degrees of negative camber quite easily. My philosophy is to run as much negative camber as I can get out of my Bilstein/pink set up since the downsides of too much camber do not seem to be a factor for my settings. You want to maximize your cornering grip while not sacrificing traction for braking and acceleration too much.

[Drew888]

Thanks,

 

I read somewhere that someone had very conservative camber settings and was jumping up and down about how much grip he had and how neutral it felt. He was running something like -1*f/-1*r, and I thought that a bit odd.

 

I do realize a little bit how the rest of the suspension has an effect and that you want as much as you can without sacrificing braking traction. The real trick, without first hand testing, is deciding on where to set things at (assuming camber plates).

 

I have thought about running -2*f/-1.3*rear for starters and zero toe. This is with Cobb sways, RCE coils set to 8f/6r (clicks from full soft), new ATE fluid, XP10's on Brembos, and 18x8 using RE01Rs.

 

I'm thinking I'm not going to be introducing oversteer at the limit which would be safer first time out. Maybe even -1.5*rear.

 

To keep as much traction under braking (assuming same applies to acceleration) while running aggressive front neg. camber.... ??? How to do this?

[Drew888]

I suppose my main concerns (I do have many other concerns but for sake of this post, focusing on chassis set up) are not running out of brake, should be fine there, and also braking stability/traction while keeping the car fast on track (with only the driver being the limiting factor).

[VTGT]

Subscribe for some nice alignment specs. I did not know that the stock rear had that much adjustability as far as camber went.

 

Are you guys using the Perrin Rear Control Arm's? http://www.fredbeansparts.com/servlet/the-986/Perrin-Subaru-Legacy-GT/Detail

 

I am thinking of picking them up since my rear camber bolts are rusted up and my rear LCA Bushings are going bad as well. This should help both issues I assume?

 

When I was running stock wheels with 225/45/17 Goodyear Asymmetrics I was running something like -1.2 camber, 0 toe all around, not sure what camber was.

 

On 18x8 wheels and 235/40/18 my alignment is like -0.9 camber and rear camber was all over the place because of the rusted camber bolts

[Th3Franz]

Subscribe for some nice alignment specs. I did not know that the stock rear had that much adjustability as far as camber went.

 

Are you guys using the Perrin Rear Control Arm's? http://www.fredbeansparts.com/servlet/the-986/Perrin-Subaru-Legacy-GT/Detail

 

I am thinking of picking them up since my rear camber bolts are rusted up and my rear LCA Bushings are going bad as well. This should help both issues I assume?

 

When I was running stock wheels with 225/45/17 Goodyear Asymmetrics I was running something like -1.2 camber, 0 toe all around, not sure what camber was.

 

On 18x8 wheels and 235/40/18 my alignment is like -0.9 camber and rear camber was all over the place because of the rusted camber bolts

with a multi-link rear you really don't have any adjustment unless you get adjustable links. basically lowering the car changes it a little bit to begin with.

 

Drew888, those specs should be fine for starting out. since you are running stiffer springs and sways, start out with around -2 deg of camber for your first event. For your first time out, don't worry about being fast on track. You won't be A better approach imo is to take it slow and improve your ability to control the car. You need to understand car control and dynamics before you should go changing every suspension setting on the car and trying to set lap records. FWIW, I did my first track days with a bone stock LGT. My first mods were tires and brake pads and fluid and ran that way for a full season. It was pretty fun to learn car control with all that body roll

[Drew888]

Lol...and I bet whomever was in your rear view mirror enjoyed it to.

 

I have been reading/bench racing for years so I really do understand all that. I'll be sure to take all I've read to heart and take it easy. I'm just trying to better understand all the dynamics... I find it fun to do.

 

VTGT, th3Franz is right. Just the act of lowering your car can make you go from around -.8 to -1.5* in the rear depending on your drop. I'm using the 4boxparts lower arms.

Both issues?

What other mods have you done to your suspension?

[VTGT]

F/R Cobb Sways and KW CoilOvers.

 

Are the 4boxparts lower arms worth it?

[VTGT]

Anybody else want to post up what specs they are running?

 

I am thinking of running -1.5 F and -1.5 in the rear, and 0 toe all around on my next alignment with aftermarket camber bolts in the front and adjustable lateral links in the rear.

[Th3Franz]

I did a lapping day on Saturday and my settings of -1.9 front and -1.3 rear with .13 degree toe out in front felt awesome. I'm also running around 6.7 deg of caster. I was very pleased with the car's performance on track.

[Drew888]

VT, you are way safe with those settings. I'd dial the rear back a few to maybe 1.2

 

-1.5 is the sweetspot to getting the longest life from your tires as a DD. Yes, install the rear lateral links - well worth it.

 

Th3Franz, thanks for that...

 

I should be set up similarly but zero toe and RCE front camber plates (similar caster).

 

What are you running for struts?

[trackhore]

I ran -1.5 F/R 0 toe with r-compounds last season. The tires' inner shoulders wore a little faster than normal due to the lack of more neg camber, but the car was my DD as well so I had to compromise. I enjoyed the way it handled. I'm on lowering springs, stock bolts up front and adjustable links in the rear. If the car was not my DD, I would have installed camber plates up front to get somewhere near -2.5 up front and left the rear at -1.5.

 

Take home: neg camber is good, seat time will make you faster than suspension tweaks.

[Saul_Good]

Cusco Front & Rear Sways (23mm & 21mm)

All the bracing front, upper, rear, etc

Megan Coilovers 6kg/mm front, 8kg/mm rear (5 clicks from full stiff on trackdays)

Camber F&R; -1.5 & -1.0 (achieved w/4boxparts lateral links)

18x8 Prodrive GC05F on 225/40/18 RE01R

Tire pressure: I shoot for 36psi front and 32psi rear when hot (I use a pyrometer to make sure tires are heatcylcling evenly

 

Last but not least 10+ trackdays worth of seat time and counting......

 

Tracks I've run:

Mid-Ohio

Putnam Park

Streets of Willow

Willow Springs

California Speedway (ROVAL config)

Buttonwillow

[VTGT]

is -1.5/-1 pretty neutral?

[trackhore]

is -1.5/-1 pretty neutral?

Changes in camber, on my car, had much less effect on what I would consider neutral handling characteristics than say upgraded sway bars and stiffer springs/shocks. When I upped my front camber to -1.5, I noticed better turn-in (less under steer), but adjusting things like sway bar settings and tire pressures were my go to adjustments for achieving "neutral".

[VTGT]

Right, I have KW coilovers and Cobb sways (Rear is on soft setting). My last alignment was -.9 F and not sure rear. My rear toe was messed up because my OEM toe bolts rusted up.

 

It still understeers a little too much to my liking so I am going to buy some lateral links so I can adjust rear camber, just trying to figure out what to go with.

[Drew888]

-1.5f+-1.2 or -1.3 r is a very good starting point.

 

trackhore, what's your impression on the relationship between fairly aggressive camber and braking stability?

[trackhore]

trackhore, what's your impression on the relationship between fairly aggressive camber and braking stability?

Nothing more than the physics of it. As static negative camber increases, you loose straight line traction/braking. I don't think this is a measurable effect at these camber levels, or at least, hasn't been the case with my car. While I was able to appreciate the additional camber, I did not notice any side effects. Jack things up to -5, then I'm sure you could notice a difference.

[Drew888]

Good to know, not good to add -camber only to have braking suffer.

 

I just read a post of someone running -3f/-2r on a track. Nice to see more aggressive camber settings and not so much the adverse effects of doing so...