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Overpowered/Underpowered Sub Woofers


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Don't try to spin it so you look semi-correct. You are confusing actual cause/effect with symptoms. The only two things that kill speakers is too much power over time and too much instantaneous power. Distortion does not kill speakers. Clipping does not kill speakers.

 

But it does. :confused: When an amp can't produce the requested power cleanly, it clips, and provides too much instantaneous power.

 

Lots of bickering to say the same things, and going crazy over semantics... jeez :spin:

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But it does. :confused: When an amp can't produce the requested power cleanly, it clips, and provides too much instantaneous power.

 

Lots of bickering to say the same things, and going crazy over semantics... jeez :spin:

 

FALSE! When an amplifier clips it doesn't produce any additional power, it is just that the average power and peak power are about the same. This is not a failure caused by too much instantaneous power. It is a failure caused by exceeding the thermal limits of a driver - too much power over a given period of time.

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You say clipping/distortion can't hurt speakers, only overpowering them can.... clipping and distortion are your audible warnings you have the volume too high

 

clipping/distortion usually = overpower for the speaker or underpowered amp

 

 

o now that's funny. An overpower and an underpower situation that both cause damage

(Updated 8/22/17)

2005 Outback FMT

Running on Electrons

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You say clipping/distortion can't hurt speakers, only overpowering them can.... clipping and distortion are your audible warnings you have the volume too high

 

clipping/distortion usually = overpower for the speaker or underpowered amp

 

o now that's funny. An overpower and an underpower situation that both cause damage

 

This really depends on what the distortion truly is. Is the distortion synthetically based by software from an audio editor or is it clipping at the HeadUnit? Is the distortion clipping from an underpowered amp or is it really from overpower to the speaker? etc etc etc.... In order to objectively find this out, you'll need tools such as an oscilloscope and a multimeter.

 

Without these tools then you are merely guessing as to what the cause of the distortion maybe from.

 

Signal distortion is nothing if the speaker can thermally handle it.

Edited by OblivionLord
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false! When an amplifier clips it doesn't produce any additional power, it is just that the average power and peak power are about the same. This is not a failure caused by too much instantaneous power. It is a failure caused by exceeding the thermal limits of a driver - too much power over a given period of time.

 

false!

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to the original post, you want to try and match the rms of the amp to the sub but its not required. Using more power than the subwoofer can take will damage it and void most warranties. Make sure your matching the power at the same impedance(ohms), a lot of people neglect the little numbers which are always askewed with shitty products. A good solid product doesnt need to mask or hide numbers. A lot of fails disregard ohms and just look at rms/peak and thats when your going to blow amps and subs, ohms/impedance of speakers are also affected by the amount of speakers per channel. Your best bet is to get it done proffesionally if your asking such a simple question, or read up on your audio/electrical knowledge. There are several factors that will effect the impedance which is key! When ohms change, current changes. pressure = voltage, flow = current(amps) and restriction = impedance(ohms), those are just some of the basics of electricty. Whats the rated power at what impedance with how many channels is the MAIN thing. A lot of people think they know about electrical/audio engineering but they dont.

 

Whats the 1200 on that amp rms or peak, either way make sure those numbers are both at the same resistance. Its all about the ohms!!!! if the sub and amp ratings are at the same ohms then your fine!!!!! is that 1200x1 or 600x2. you didnt drop enough numbers. 1000 and 1200 isn't enough data to come to a solid conclusion!!!!

Edited by Tehnation
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http://www.crutchfield.com/S-igSlFZU0NpJ/learn/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_faq.html#10

 

heres a good place to start, crutchfield has been in the audio business for a very long time, they know their shit and they will gladly tell you what you need to know. If your a novice I recommend reading up on their site. Amazing instructions, information, and diagrams.

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i didnt read through all of the posts because i never do. a 1k watt woof can take 1200 no problem. everything is about the speaker box. if you wanna put more watts to your woof then the cu ft of the box is going to be smaller than manufacturer specs. also it dosent hurt to turn it down. ive blown my fair share of equip. testing limits of stuff. i say set the gain a little lower. on another note.

 

here is a great car audio forum a local guy i know has. ive been a member for 4 years or so. any questions head over there and join. www.stevemeadedesigns.com

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i didnt read through all of the posts because i never do. a 1k watt woof can take 1200 no problem. everything is about the speaker box. if you wanna put more watts to your woof then the cu ft of the box is going to be smaller than manufacturer specs. also it dosent hurt to turn it down. ive blown my fair share of equip. testing limits of stuff. i say set the gain a little lower. on another note.

 

here is a great car audio forum a local guy i know has. ive been a member for 4 years or so. any questions head over there and join. www.stevemeadedesigns.com

 

No. Not accurate. Box is irrelevant for power handling.

 

Bottom line, 1000w rated woofer will only take 1000w. If you run more than 1000w through it, it'll blow. However, 1000w is a shit ton of power. (Technical term). The 1200w amp will likely have the gain turned down a lot, which means that the power output never exceeds what the woofer can take. It's very typical to have an amp with higher ratings than a driver, but the trick is not to turn the gain up enough that you exceed the power level of the driver.

 

Boxes don't matter to voice coil heat build up. A box design won't stop a voice coil from melting.

Edited by ean611
clarification
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Actually, he's right.

 

You're still wrong, no matter how big you make your font. Try explaining why you feel the way you do, you might even be taken seriously that way.

 

It's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

 

The exceeding of the thermal limits is caused by too much power over a given time period. Yes. If you repeatedly clip to the point where the peak (instantaneous) and average are the same, then too much instantaneous power (repeatedly) caused the failure. It's just an argument over semantics at this point, except those saying that underpowering a sub will lead to failure.

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No. Not accurate. Box is irrelevant for power handling.

 

Bottom line, 1000w rated woofer will only take 1000w. If you run more than 1000w through it, it'll blow. However, 1000w is a shit ton of power. (Technical term). The 1200w amp will likely have the gain turned down a lot, which means that the power output never exceeds what the woofer can take. It's very typical to have an amp with higher ratings than a driver, but the trick is not to turn the gain up enough that you exceed the power level of the driver.

 

Boxes don't matter to voice coil heat build up. A box design won't stop a voice coil from melting.

Being as how i am from the car audio world, i myself and dozens of other car audio enthusiests have overpowered equipment daily and out performs beyond manufacturer

Suggested power. Ask anyone who knows a thing or 2 about speaker box design. The box is everything. That and having quality equipment. And i encourage you guys who are interested in learning a thing or 2 about car audio to join and or read/ browse the forum i posted. Theres 2 ways a woofer fails. Mechanical and thermal failure. Thermal failure can come from overpowering and or dirty power which comes fromm a clipped signal.

 

You should never set your amp gain above 3/4. Upgrading electrical such as wire,and charging system will help your signal problems

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My sub died the other day. Almost 11 years of use at 30w rms over is rated specs. I know, I was asking for it, overpowering it and all. I think the only reason it survived as long as it did was because I had it in a 1.1cuft sealed box when the specs want a 1.4cuft box. Now the sub only makes noise if you lightly press in the driver a little.

(Updated 8/22/17)

2005 Outback FMT

Running on Electrons

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Being as how i am from the car audio world, i myself and dozens of other car audio enthusiests have overpowered equipment daily and out performs beyond manufacturer

Suggested power. Ask anyone who knows a thing or 2 about speaker box design. The box is everything. That and having quality equipment. And i encourage you guys who are interested in learning a thing or 2 about car audio to join and or read/ browse the forum i posted. Theres 2 ways a woofer fails. Mechanical and thermal failure. Thermal failure can come from overpowering and or dirty power which comes fromm a clipped signal.

 

You should never set your amp gain above 3/4. Upgrading electrical such as wire,and charging system will help your signal problems

 

Thread was about electrical failure, not mechanical. For electrical failure, that is melting a voice coil due to heat buildup, box design does not matter.

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Perfect!

 

This is RMS correct? This will take a lot of stress on your amplifier + give you plenty of head room. Adjust your Gains properly. Use an 0-Scope (oscilliscope) or DMM/convert voltage.

 

 

...This forum definately isn't for audioholics. Join diyma.com

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I've only read the last two pages of this thread, but it seems not everyone understands the difference between RMS and peak numbers. And amp will never produce it's peak rating in the sense that people think it might.

 

When your subs hit hard, they aren't seeing that peak power level your amp is "rated for." At full tilt, your amp produces the rated RMS wattage (if it's a quality amp at least.) The peak rating is just a different way of measuring the wattage, measuring the total magnitude from maximum to minimum on the sine wave it produces. The RMS number is the magnitude from the zero point to one peak of the wave, half the peak number. That's why the peak rating is always double the RMS rating.

 

Reporting the peak number is just a marketing tool to make an amp sound more powerful to noobs.

 

Edit: You can't thermally blow a sub by underpowering it, unless the signal is clipped. And a sub won't automatically blow when sent a clipped signal; there still has to be enough power to overheat the voice coils. If you have a high power sub and send it low power, you can clip the bejesus out of it all day and not blow the sub.

Edited by Dbl_D718
MODS: PW TMIC, Cobb catted DP, HKS cat-back, AVO filter, Bren e-tune; Konis/Epics, Advan RCII
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