vaccaroja Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Is this to rich? comments? Please advise. http://www.dentsport.com/wp-content/gallery/dyno-charts-cars/jeffv_lgt.jpg 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Seems reasonable to me. Some tuners shoot for a little over 11, some for a little under 11... Give two great tunes, one richer than the other, the one that runs rich probably runs more timing. I haven't seen any evidence that one approach is better than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 it comes down to the trade-off the tuner is asked to make. assuming both tunes yield the same output then richer afr + more timing = (usually) lower EGT, more load on the bearings, more fuel consumption and potentially a bigger pressure spike should knocking happen lean (less rich but still rich of stoich) afr + less timing = (usually) higher EGT, less load on the bearings, less fuel consumption. consider what happens when you have a slower burning mixture that needs to be lit earlier to get peak pressure at the optimal angle. 1) more negative work is done compressing a burning mixture over a larger angle 2) more heat is transfered to the pistons and heads 3) if the mixture detonates instead of burning smoothly, there's a higher chance you will get peak pressures at a crank angle that will favour pounding out the bearings or breaking the piston ring lands there's also oil sooting and contamination to consider. at sub 11 AFRs I find my oil gets black in a hurry. at mid 11s I make it to ~ 6500 km with the oil looking reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 That post was made of win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccaroja Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 That post was made of win. ??? and that means?? 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccaroja Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 here is my second problem. This tune was with a blown intercooler or so it was thought to be. I bought a new one and need a re-tune or so i have been told. Any comments concerning that. The one major issue i have is when i redline in 3 gear i loose about 1-2 quarts of oil per pull. So i am affraid i might blow my engine on the dyno... any comments or concerns... It only blows oil out at high rpms around readline. anytime else i can drive it 3K without issue. Not sure if its the piston rings or the turbo seal. 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 here is my second problem. This tune was with a blown intercooler or so it was thought to be. I bought a new one and need a re-tune or so i have been told. Any comments concerning that. The one major issue i have is when i redline in 3 gear i loose about 1-2 quarts of oil per pull. So i am affraid i might blow my engine on the dyno... any comments or concerns... It only blows oil out at high rpms around readline. anytime else i can drive it 3K without issue. Not sure if its the piston rings or the turbo seal. You really should stop worring about your tune and afrs and start thinking about what is causing you to lose (I hope that was a typo) 1-2 quarts if oil per pull. That is crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccaroja Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 You really should stop worring about your tune and afrs and start thinking about what is causing you to lose (I hope that was a typo) 1-2 quarts if oil per pull. That is crazy... im thinking its the piston rings or turbo seal. its more like 1 quart of oil. but its still alot to loose. the car has 78000 miles on it. Stock intercooler, stock turbo. 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I hope it is the turbo..it would be a lot cheaper to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccaroja Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 I hope it is the turbo..it would be a lot cheaper to replace. i could not agree more with you on that. 23 book hours for piston rings. 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisCOBB Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 After reading through your post I could not help but to hop in and ask a few questions. The first thing that grabs me is the "blown" intercooler. Was your intercooler damaged in some way? Was it leaking? Usually intercoolers don't need to be replaced unless there is a hole in the core or endtanks somewhere. Secondly, 1-2 quarts of oil per pull? That is complete engine failure. It could be the turbo, but that would mean that you are pumping 1-2 quarts out the bearing through that tiny oil line. This I doubt. WHat is more likely is that the rings are completely gone and the crankcase is being pressurized and you are pumping oil out past the pistons. I imagine your intake system is full of oil? Don't bother with re-ringing the engine. Get a fresh shortblock and drop in some pistons if you plan on keeping on with modifying your car. There is some rather significant engine damage it would seem. Start with leakdown and compression. Pull the turbo and see if that is shot as well. At the very least get some diagnostic done. 1-2 quarts of oil per redline pull is completely inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccaroja Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 After reading through your post I could not help but to hop in and ask a few questions. The first thing that grabs me is the "blown" intercooler. Was your intercooler damaged in some way? Was it leaking? Usually intercoolers don't need to be replaced unless there is a hole in the core or endtanks somewhere. Secondly, 1-2 quarts of oil per pull? That is complete engine failure. It could be the turbo, but that would mean that you are pumping 1-2 quarts out the bearing through that tiny oil line. This I doubt. WHat is more likely is that the rings are completely gone and the crankcase is being pressurized and you are pumping oil out past the pistons. I imagine your intake system is full of oil? Don't bother with re-ringing the engine. Get a fresh shortblock and drop in some pistons if you plan on keeping on with modifying your car. There is some rather significant engine damage it would seem. Start with leakdown and compression. Pull the turbo and see if that is shot as well. At the very least get some diagnostic done. 1-2 quarts of oil per redline pull is completely inappropriate. How would i check to see if my intake system is full of oil? just pull the filter off? Second its about 1 quart of oil and its not really per pull, but about 3 or 4 pulls. Like i said this only happens under full load and full boost otherwise i can go 3K miles no oil leakage or burning at all. Thats why i think its the turbo and not the rings. 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisCOBB Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 You would need to pull your intercooler to check for the amount of oil in your intake system. If there is copious amounts of oil, it isnt the turbo and your consumption is still WAY too much. I would also recommend a breather system upgrade like a catch can or better yet, an air/oil separator. Get the compression and leakdown though, its worth the $100 to tell if you have a bad turbo or a bad engine. Travis COBB Tuning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccaroja Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 ok will the breather help with the ammount of oil going into the intake? also i have noticed a black film of some sort around my BOV.. that mean anything to you? 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaccaroja Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 maybe this had something to do with them tunning my car with 5 quarts of oil instead of 4.25 quarts of oil.. maybe it over pressurized the block. 13.6 @ 102 untuned FTW SmartWax - Spec Clutch - Team Scp 1 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisCOBB Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 If you have black residue around your BOV, that means it is venting oil-filled air out of your intake system. Slightly overfilling the block would not cause what is happening with your car. Pressurizing the crank would happen because of blown rings. End of story. Compression and leakdown, compression and leakdown. That is the only way to tell. Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasone Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 ^^ Agreed. Pics when you pull the engine, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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