rnstein69 Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 I test fitted my rear Brembo calipers on this evening, and I have exactly the same uneven gap either side of the rotor. I going to try fitting spacers between the caliper and the bracket. I measured that I'll need 2.5mm to get the caliper centred over the rotor. Going to get the spacers made up this week, then try again next weekend. Hey Phil, Is your caliper sitting too far away from the center of the car? (too much space for the outside pad, not enough space for the inside pad, which is the same issue that I have) then spacers would not do the trick. The bracket would have to be milled down by 2.5 mm on either the surface that meets the knuckle or the surface that meets the caliper bringing the caliper closer to the center of the car. If it is sitting too far inward leaving too much space for the inside pad and not enough for the outside pad that would be an easier fix. I wish that this was my issue which I think could be fixed with a set of washers between the bracket and the knuckle; this would bring the caliper farther away from the center of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I went back at it again last night, seems like the rotor itself is not going completly on. There is a lip on the inside of the rotor, which on the OEM rotors fits inside the housing for the parking brake assembly. I am using 2004 STi rotors and the lip on those are a larger diameter and is contacting the bracket. I have two choices, machine approx 2.5mm from the face of the bracket, or machine the lip from the rotor. I was going to use extra thick parking brake pads, ala Onkel racing, but now think I would be better to get the parking brake drum sleeved to reduce the inner diameter to 170mm. I'll have another look at it today, decide on my course of action, then hopefully have it all corrected for next weekend. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 hmm.. Interesting stuff. I am wondering if the sti rotor could be the cause of the problem. maybe the custom DBA rotor from fastwrx.com would line up properly with the caliper? I think I am going to go the route of milling down the bracket by 2.5 mm so that everything lines up. Looks like I will have to try this again next weekend when the machine shop by me is opened. I will make another update then. Phil, can you keep me posted of what you are planning to do and how it all works out? that may have an influence on what route I decide to take to solve this issue. Well, on the other hand I already shipped my stock e brake shoes to onkel so I am stuck with the custom shoes and sti rotors so it looks like my choice is limited to modifying the brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I crudely ground down the lip on the inside of the rotor so that is now sits flush. It now sits fairly central in the caliper, but it is very close to the bracket. I think I will machine 2mm from the face of the bracket just to be on the safe side. Now the pics: http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/DSC01009.jpg This is the eBay bracket, and if you don't mind doing a little work to get them to fit, they seem just fine. http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/DSC01010.jpg The caliper is a little offset, but the pads are free to move so I hope it isn't a problem http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/DSC01011.jpg The bracket is too close to the rotor for my comfort, and I will get 2.0 mm machined from the face to give a bit more clearance. http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/DSC01016.jpg This is the lip that has to be removed for the rotor to fit flush on the hub. On the OEM rotor this lip fits inside the parking brake housing, this one fits outside and interferes with the bracket. I will also get the inner diameter of the rotor sleeved so that it is correct for the Legacy parking brake shoes, I feel this is a better option than fitting oversized brake shoes. http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/DSC01013.jpg http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/DSC01014.jpg The finished product makes it all worth while though ! Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I'm not going to comment about the drilled rotors... Ugh... -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I'm not going to comment about the drilled rotors... Ugh... -mike Nobody asked you to, duh ! Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 seems like that would explain the fitment issues unclemat was having as well. wonder if all 04 sti specific rotors are designed this way? anyone know who has installed 04 sti rotors successfully yet? wonder what rotors they are using? MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 seems like that would explain the fitment issues unclemat was having as well. wonder if all 04 sti specific rotors are designed this way? anyone know who has installed 04 sti rotors successfully yet? wonder what rotors they are using? This is an interesting point that you brought up that I have been thinking about. I am wondering if the 2004 sti rotor sits closer in than the fastwrx custom dba rotor does. I am not going to spend anymore money on this project to find out, plus my stock e brake shoes I already shipped back to unclemat. I am curious about this though. Anyone else have this issue or care to chime in? This weekend I am going to take some very careful measurements and have my rear brackets milled down slightly. I will keep you guys updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I dropped my rotors off at the machine shop this morning, should have them done in a few days then try again at the weekend. If that lip is touching the bracket, you would know about it though, it would screech like a banshee while you were moving I think. I don't know what type of rotors I have, they came from an '04 STi, but are obviously not OEM, maybe they are different from the OEM ones in that respect. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxiboy Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Gauging by the OP's pics, the rotor is already sitting too far inward. The quick solution I could think of is to have a spacer of 1-2mm made to fit inside the rotor hats so that the rotor would move out and center on the calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 Gauging by the OP's pics, the rotor is already sitting too far inward. The quick solution I could think of is to have a spacer of 1-2mm made to fit inside the rotor hats so that the rotor would move out and center on the calipers. That's me I thought of that already but I would rather not mess around with any type of spacers behind the rotor. Like I mentioned, I am going to try the route of milling down the brackets by 2 or 2.5mm this coming weekend and try fitment once again. I will keep you guys posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNS Brakes Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Make sure it fits and works right - it's your brakes. If you use the 04 STi rotor then I think you take away the dust seal of your parking brake assembly. The inner drum rides right inside that 'ring' to seal out water etc. Be aware of that. http://www.knsbrakes.com/images/posting_pictures/rear_bracket_install/DSC01746copy.jpg http://www.knsbrakes.com/images/posting_pictures/rear_bracket_install/DSC01747copy.jpg Make sure the rotor is centered in the caliper - and the pad should sweep the correct annulus. http://www.knsbrakes.com/images/posting_pictures/rear_bracket_install/DSC01749copy.jpg http://www.knsbrakes.com/images/posting_pictures/rear_bracket_install/DSC01750copy.jpg http://www.knsbrakes.com/images/posting_pictures/rear_bracket_install/DSC01753copy.jpg The brackets and rotors I made for Dan should fit perfectly - on LGT's you do need to follow his instructions for some minor grinding on the knuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 The more I look at those, the more I think that the problem is the '04 STi rotors. When it comes time to replace my rotors, I think I will buy the LGT specific ones you show there, to save any further aggravation. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNS Brakes Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 When I worked on this I thought pretty hard about whether to use the big shoes or small drum rotor. The rotor has a bit of a weight penalty but I wanted to minimize any change in what Subaru engineered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNS Brakes Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 BTW - I looked at the DBA rear sti rotors to compare to those you show. I didn't measure but the inner drum section does stick out like yours do. Not sure how much etc but just to let you know. I don't know if someone has used the dba sti rear rotor w/ the big shoes on your car to know if it's just the brand of rear rotor you are using or sti rears in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoDork Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Hey Ken!... just for more pictures and info...here is my install of the DBA/MackV/Kartboy/WrxBrakes.com kit...no issues with mine thus far. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63781 ~Sucka-Duck~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 The more I look at those, the more I think that the problem is the '04 STi rotors. When it comes time to replace my rotors, I think I will buy the LGT specific ones you show there, to save any further aggravation. I think I would agree. well, 300 bucks for a pair of rear 04 sti dba 4000 rotors, I still want to get my moneys worth out of them. Thanks for the pics brakeguru, I think maybe the issue could be that my rotors are sitting in too far and its not really the issue of the rear caliper sitting out too far. hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Gauging by the OP's pics, the rotor is already sitting too far inward. The quick solution I could think of is to have a spacer of 1-2mm made to fit inside the rotor hats so that the rotor would move out and center on the calipers. I think this would actually be the best solution for these rotors. There is more than enough clearance to the wheel, and still leave plenty of lug to bolt onto. In my case though, I have opted to get the inside diameter of the parking brake drum sleeved, so I can retain the OEM shoes. Hmmmm Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Make sure it fits and works right - it's your brakes. If you use the 04 STi rotor then I think you take away the dust seal of your parking brake assembly. The inner drum rides right inside that 'ring' to seal out water etc. Be aware of that. http://www.knsbrakes.com/images/posting_pictures/rear_bracket_install/DSC01746copy.jpg The brackets and rotors I made for Dan should fit perfectly - on LGT's you do need to follow his instructions for some minor grinding on the knuckle. You have me thinking now from looking at this pic. The custom shoes that I got from unclemat are meant to be used with the sti rotors. I am thinking that the larger inside diameter of the rotors (where the e brake shoes grab onto) are leaving a gap where that ring is, so they may not be keeping dust/water/moister out. Would this potentially lead to problems later on? On the other hand, as someone mentioned earlier about a 2mm spacer between the hub and rotor may also solve the problem. what if I were to use a generic spacer there? I already have installed extended 60mm nismo wheel studs all around, so I have plenty of room to play with as far as that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Regardless if you use the big shoes, or not you have to rip off the dust shield. It will interfere if either type of the rotor. Your problems got me curious. I am going to check the new brakeguru's brackets on my car this weekend. I run the old version which works great, except the pad "stick out" issue which is completely different. That issue was easily remedied by grinding the inner pad's backplate and enlarging the pin eyelets a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 The problem isn't the dust shield, its the lip on the rotor here http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/Rotor.jpg and the seal on the hub here http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/PhilTGT/Brakes/Hub.jpg The lip on the OEM rotor fits inside the lip on the hub, to give a seal against water and dust. The lip on the 04 STi rotor fits outside of the lip on the hub and it either touches the bracket, or if you space it further apart, won't give as good a seal against the elements. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Again I've been running STI 04 rotors with the original brakeguru's brackets. Both OEM 04 STI as well as aftermarket Stoptechs (universal fit for all years STI - dual lug pattern). No issues with anything, except the inner pad interfering with the bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Regardless if you use the big shoes, or not you have to rip off the dust shield. It will interfere if either type of the rotor. Your problems got me curious. I am going to check the new brakeguru's brackets on my car this weekend. I run the old version which works great, except the pad "stick out" issue which is completely different. That issue was easily remedied by grinding the inner pad's backplate and enlarging the pin eyelets a little bit. nice. def interested. still have not mounted my rears yet since im waiting on 04 centric blank rotors. MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Regardless if you use the big shoes, or not you have to rip off the dust shield. It will interfere if either type of the rotor. Your problems got me curious. I am going to check the new brakeguru's brackets on my car this weekend. I run the old version which works great, except the pad "stick out" issue which is completely different. That issue was easily remedied by grinding the inner pad's backplate and enlarging the pin eyelets a little bit. Yeah, the dustshields were completely removed from both sides and ground down so there are no jagged edges. This weekend I hope to resolve this issue once and for all by milling my brackets by 2.5mm so that the rotor is centered. I anxiously await the weekend. Work seems to be getting in the way of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Well, I just finished removing my rear bracket and am going to visit my local machine shop tomorrow. I took some measurements with a vernier caliper (accurate to 0.001") just to double check and here is what I came up with: between the rotor and inside part of the caliper is 0.575" between the rotor and outside part of the caliper is 0.775" brake pad thickness range from 0.575" to 0.610" so that confirms a part of the problem for the inside pads. 0.575" + 0.775" = 1.35" 1.35" / 2 = 0.675" should be between the rotor and either side of the caliper. So, I have to have 0.1" (or 2.54 mm) of material removed from the surface of the bracket that meets the knuckle moving the caliper further inside making spaces on either side of the rotor and caliper even. I will make another update tomorrow or Wednesday after reinstalling the brackets and calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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