rnstein69 Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 Well the outter edge of any brake rotor does not have contact from the pads. That's an easy way to know how badly you need rotors, if there is a significant lip, you need new rotors etc. If the swept area is different or smaller than what others who have the same setup (caliper/rotor) then you can compare them and take it from there. -mike See the pic that I posted in the beginning of this thread. The rust is on the surface of the rotor towards the outer edge where the pad should be making contact. The rotor and pads are both for a 2004 sti (this happened after I did my brembo conversion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Gotcha, I looked at it closer. How do the rear side of the rotor look (inside)? If the bracket isn't aligned properly, the inside (closer to the hub) portion of the inside side of the rotor will likely exhibit the same issue. Also how does it compare side to side? Could also be a bent or non-aligned backing plate on the pads and/or dirty/grimy piston contact point. Short of physically looking at it, I'm not sure what it is. Where in NY are you? Perhap you can bring it to our shop (AZP) and we can help you look into it. We are about 20 min from the Holland Tunnel in NJ. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 I could not get a good view of the back side of the rotor since the heat shield is blocking most of the view, even though the lip part of it was cut away when doing the conversion. Both sides have this issue, one slightly worse than the other. I am located in Rockland County on the NY/NJ border just off the GSP. I am about a 25 minute drive from the Holland tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach V Dan Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I'd probably break everything down and make sure it's all mounted squarely with no grit or anything between parts, and with all parts torqued evenly. Also see that diagram above -- not having the shims in might have some effect, too. How about the inner surface of the rotor? Is it the same? Opposite? No rust? Were the brake pads new? --Dan Mach V FastWRX.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 I'd probably break everything down and make sure it's all mounted squarely with no grit or anything between parts, and with all parts torqued evenly. Also see that diagram above -- not having the shims in might have some effect, too. How about the inner surface of the rotor? Is it the same? Opposite? No rust? Were the brake pads new? --Dan Mach V FastWRX.com Yeah, I only removed the pads and reinstalled them, but did not go as far as removing the calipers and reinstalling them, but everything was torqued to spec upon installation. The pads are brand new Hawk HPS pads and did not come with shims of any sort. I would assume that if the rotor had the same problem but opposite (rust ring towards the inner surface and no rust on the outer surface) then the calipers might be angled slightly? Where would I be able to get shims for the pads? do you think that this will help solve the problem? Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VXCL Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 installed oem sti shims this sat and no more squeeling with axxis ults. car is super quiet like stock now. MAYHEM #122/22 STS NNJR SCCA AUTOX4U.COM XENON RETRO GUIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yeah, I only removed the pads and reinstalled them, but did not go as far as removing the calipers and reinstalling them, but everything was torqued to spec upon installation. The pads are brand new Hawk HPS pads and did not come with shims of any sort. I would assume that if the rotor had the same problem but opposite (rust ring towards the inner surface and no rust on the outer surface) then the calipers might be angled slightly? Where would I be able to get shims for the pads? do you think that this will help solve the problem? Thanks.. Shim may work, but I'd start with breaking it all down and checking the back of that rotor that will give you a real good idea if it's a matter of an angled bracket or what not. My personal feeling is the shims won't matter unless you are only gently tapping the brakes. I'm full into my brakes a lot especially when bedding them in. -mike PS: Let me know if you'd want us to take a look at em for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Shim may work, but I'd start with breaking it all down and checking the back of that rotor that will give you a real good idea if it's a matter of an angled bracket or what not. My personal feeling is the shims won't matter unless you are only gently tapping the brakes. I'm full into my brakes a lot especially when bedding them in. -mike PS: Let me know if you'd want us to take a look at em for you. yeah, looks like ill be doing that this coming weekend. ill keep you guys posted of whats going on with the rear calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 well, I ran into some odd problems when disassembling my rear calipers assembly. Firstly, my rear calipers do not sit over the rotors directly, they are mounted too far outward making it difficult to remove the inner brake pad. the outer brake pad has plenty of "slop" so that slides right out. I measured the difference with a digital veneer caliper and it is a 5mm gap, so the caliper has to sit inward (towards the center of the car) by 2.5mm. This leads me to believe that I have a defective set of caliper brackets. Secondly, this problem is happening on both rear rotors. If this were happening only on one side, I would be a little more hesitant to jump to my conclusion that my caliper brackets are defective. I think I will be taking them to a machine shop to be milled down by 2.5mm, or the surface of the bracket that bolts up to the knuckle. I think this is what is causing my problems. Any body else have the issue of the inner rear brake pad being very difficult to remove? if so, this may be the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 ok, I dug up an old thread, and you can clearly see that where this bracket bolts up to the caliper versus the knuckle are in 2 different planes. http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2232112 http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/P1010895.jpg In this thread, you can see that where the caliper bolts up to the bracket and where the bracket bolts up to the knuckle are in the same plane: (bracket that I got from fastwrx.com) http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107222 So, this leads me to believe that for whatever reason, this may be working for most if not all of you, and for me my rear calipers need a bracket similar to the one posted in the first pic. I don't mean to beat this topic to death, but I just would like it to be documented if anyone else runs into this issue. I will keep you guys posted on what happens over the next few weeks as I decide how to trouble shoot this. Any input or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Did you grind the trailing arm to make clearance for the caliper bolts (the top ones)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 Did you grind the trailing arm to make clearance for the caliper bolts (the top ones)? yes, I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Posting here, too.... I am in the process of installing rear Brembos using these brackets. I noticed that the caliper is positioned kinda more outward the hub, so the brake pad does not make full contact with the rotor... I don't like that. Is it also true for all of these brackets (original Brembo, Kartboy)???? See attached picture. It is not very clear - I marked the portion extending past the rotor with yellow lines. Btw, the rotor is stock 04 STI Brembo rotor (with custom parking brake shoes). Is this perhaps why? Are the adapter rotors bigger in diameter? Prompt responses would be appreciated! Unclemat had a different problem I think, the pads on his were clearly outside the outer diameter of the rotor (not good) Even if yours are offset, that shouldn't cause the wear you are seeing. As one pad touches the rotor it won't put any force onto the rotor until the opposite piston has the same pressure inside it. Is the contact pattern the same on the inner face of the rotor or is it opposite ? Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 Unclemat had a different problem I think, the pads on his were clearly outside the outer diameter of the rotor (not good) Even if yours are offset, that shouldn't cause the wear you are seeing. As one pad touches the rotor it won't put any force onto the rotor until the opposite piston has the same pressure inside it. Is the contact pattern the same on the inner face of the rotor or is it opposite ? the contact pattern on the inner surface of the rotor is opposite. On the inner surface there is a rust ring towards the center of the rotor, opposed to the outside surface where the rust ring is towards the outer edge. In addition to this, I think I mentioned that the inner pad is tough to get it and out while the outer pad has plenty of wiggle room, more than enough actually. If I look at the caliper straight down (without the pads in), I can clearly see that it is not directly centered over the rotor, it is sitting outward too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 That indicates to me then, that not only is the bracket offset, the mounting faces are not parallel. If the wear pattern is ok on the other rear brake, then try swapping the brackets over, if the rust rings clear up straight away, then that will confirm it. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 That indicates to me then, that not only is the bracket offset, the mounting faces are not parallel. If the wear pattern is ok on the other rear brake, then try swapping the brackets over, if the rust rings clear up straight away, then that will confirm it. I don't think that the surfaces are in the same plane, parallel I think they are, I didn't think to look when I had it all apart today while trouble shooting. This is actually happening on both rear rotors, one is slightly worse than the other, so maybe I got a bad set of brackets? either way, it just does not sit right with me that the caliper is not centered over the rotor. I definitely plan to have a machine shop mill it to spec, at least I measured 2.5 mm with a digital veneer caliper on the side that I disassembled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Something has to be twisting the caliper away from the same plane as the rotor, it can only be the bracket. Which brackets do you have ? Have you tried contacting the supplier ? Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 Something has to be twisting the caliper away from the same plane as the rotor, it can only be the bracket. Which brackets do you have ? Have you tried contacting the supplier ? As I mentioned, I have the brackets from fastwrx.com as most who have recently done this conversion have the same brackets. Since no one else seems to have this issue and are using the same components as me is leaving me confused as to why I am the only one with this issue. Like I said, maybe I got a bad or defective set of brackets? List of parts that I used once more: 2007 STi calipers DBA 4000 slotted rotors (for a 2004 STi) Hawk HPS pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisan Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Interesting stuff. Please keep this thread posted as you said for future reference. I'm leaning toward the brackets being defective at this point. -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNS Brakes Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I produced those brackets and stand behind them 100%. Please contact me. I need better pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 Ok, well, the weekend finally is here and that gave me a chance to pull my wheel off remove the brake pads from the rear caliper and snap a few pics that may better describe my problem. Sorry about the somewhat crappy cell phone pics, but they should give you an idea of the problem. You can clearly see that when the pads are not in the caliper, the caliper is not sitting directly over the rotor. The rotor is all of the way in as it should be mounted, and things are not lined up. I think a few millimeters milled off of the bracket will allow the caliper to sit directly over the rotor, hopefully solving my problem. You can see the larger gap where the outside pad goes, it drops right in with plenty of wiggle room while the inside pad has a significantly smaller gap to fit into which i have to struggle to get it in. I have to "pry" the rotor with my hand to widen the gap to get it to go in. List of what I have used: - fastwrx.com brackets - 2004 sti dba 4000 rotors - 2007 sti limited calipers - 2004 hawk hps pads and on to the pics: http://www.superhonda.com/photopost/data/2/medium/pic12.jpg http://www.superhonda.com/photopost/data/2/medium/pic23.jpg http://www.superhonda.com/photopost/data/2/medium/pic33.jpg http://www.superhonda.com/photopost/data/2/medium/pic42.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNS Brakes Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Ok those pics help First - that isn't good at all - you can see that the rotor is not centered in the caliper. That in itself is enough to say something is way off. I can't quite tell why the pad won't contact the rotor. Even if the caliper were angled a bit the force from the piston should make it go flat against the rotor. I would dissassemble the whole thing and make sure itr's installed correct - and that the caliper sits right in the bracket etc. You can certainly send the bracket back - or even bracket/rotor/caliper -and I can test fit it - I have a knuckle just for that. -ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnstein69 Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 Ok those pics help First - that isn't good at all - you can see that the rotor is not centered in the caliper. That in itself is enough to say something is way off. I can't quite tell why the pad won't contact the rotor. Even if the caliper were angled a bit the force from the piston should make it go flat against the rotor. I would dissassemble the whole thing and make sure itr's installed correct - and that the caliper sits right in the bracket etc. You can certainly send the bracket back - or even bracket/rotor/caliper -and I can test fit it - I have a knuckle just for that. -ken Thanks for the reply. I have removed everything (for the rear brake assembly) and reinstalled several times to make sure that everything is mounted properly. I ordered a second set of brackets already from fastwrx.com and hopefully those will work, if not it looks like I will have to get one of the sets milled down by a few millimeters to move the calipers closer into the center of the car so that they sit directly over the rotor. I would love to send the caliper/rotor/bracket so that you can test fit it for yourself, but this is my only car at the moment so I really can't afford more than a day of down time. Thanks, Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNS Brakes Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 ok Well send the brackets back in so we can eyeball them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I test fitted my rear Brembo calipers on this evening, and I have exactly the same uneven gap either side of the rotor. I going to try fitting spacers between the caliper and the bracket. I measured that I'll need 2.5mm to get the caliper centred over the rotor. Going to get the spacers made up this week, then try again next weekend. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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