DaveZ Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 OK drove an Audi A4 Sline this wknd...wow. Love my legacy, only a 2.5i but fast enough as my commuter but I want to get more out of the handling. Read LOTs o' threads here. Not so much interested in lowering for looks etc, but results: more neutral steering, more feeling of secure control...and no don't want to spend $30K on a new car but get the most out of this one. I could see spending a couple K this year if I had a good plan. So, suspension guys, could you rate in order of the most effect: 1) 18-inch wheels & appropriate tires 2) Upgraded dampers 3) Springs, slight (Tiel H?) drop OK 4) Sway bars thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 #1 - wheels are fairly irrelevant, tires will matter. You can get better tires on stock wheels, or smaller wheels, and get just as much effect. 18s are for aesthetics. Tires matter, grip is everything, without grip, your brakes and suspension are pretty irrelevant. #2 - most bang for the buck is right here. #3 - goes with #2 #4 - changes the "feel" drastically, i'm not sure how much impact they make in actual performance at any level below "hard" track use. May I suggest you try to get a ride or test drive of a Spec.B and see how that feels to you? I think a good option for a first step from a 2.5i would be to swap to a Spec.B (or 3.0R) stock suspension, before going balls to the wall in the aftermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveZ Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Thanks Shadow - regarding wheels - reducing unsprung wight matter less with a sedan? My performance background is on motorcycles, wheel weight was important. But yeah tires made a huge difference... Will your average Subie dealer glaze over if I tell them I want to 'spec B' my Leggy 2.5?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Reducing upsprung weight matters, but it's not going to do much without a damper/spring to control the movement. Also an 18" wheel isn't likely to yield you much savings in the weight department. Look at 17s for that, or even 16s if they'll fit on the 2.5i brakes (I think they will). A dealer isn't likely to be able to help you, but if you're in the PDX area, try AKLGT or some other folks for recommendations of shops to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramall2 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I'm not a guru but... 2) Upgraded dampers 4) Sway bars: I did sways first. Great improvement to me as far as feel, whether actual cornering grip increased that much or not. 3) Springs, slight (Tiel H?) drop OK: #3 and 4 may be close. 1) 18-inch wheels & appropriate tires: You don't need 18" wheels. Just get some good tires. (Not sure what your stock rims are though...) Ok, heres what really made the difference for me and what I suggest more and more if you really want some great feel and adjustability... Get some high quality coilovers. I got some cheaper ones...so so...then switched to Zeal V6. Great stuff. Car is way more solid. I love coilovers...adjustable height, adjustable dampening, adjustable spring preload, adjustable camber. People think they're going to be too stiff or something, but they're not if you get good quality ones with good valving and the right spring rates (and as long as you are somewhat performance oriented...it's not going to ride like a Lincoln Town Car (thank goodness))--and we have some terrible roads around here. Yes I do track the car a few times a year, so adjustability is a bit more important for me. If at all possible, drive a couple cars in your areas with different setups. Remember, for coilovers, don't go by someone with cheap ones (not that there might not be some cheaper ones that do ok, but that hasn't been my experience). I also suggest doing things in steps so you can see the changes. Why not get a set of sways, put on the rear first, see how it feels, then put on the front (you can always sell sways too). Then try other mods. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 ^ I think a straight jump from a 2.5i stock suspension to coilovers is pretty extreme. Would definitely investigate the Spec B or 3.0R stock suspension first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramall2 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yes, you do have a good point there. I guess I started at GT level, then quickly realized I wanted a lot more out of the suspension. That might be a big jump. At the same time, I think people tend to shy away from coilovers too much, but that's probably in part because I now really like my setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveZ Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 well as caramall points out the roads are bad in PDX and I drive over some of the worst daily...which is what is making me think springs & dampers maybe even tires first before a heavier sway setup as from what I understand, heavier sway bars reduce your independence in the suspension. Or does it matter that much? Would like to correct that body roll but the body roll thread went on without really any consensus.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levish Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 i'd go with tires and sway bars personally, if you feel like you want more you can always take it further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggybdawg Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 you can get the koni adjustable dampers instead of jumping all the way to coilovers, and still get the adjustability (at least one aspect). They are on sale right now at tirerack.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveZ Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 thanks for the hint on the sale will check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexster Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 sway bars do not help much. they will get rid of some lean but do not help with front/rear weight transfer and the car will be twitchy at the limit because the stock struts are very weak. aftermarket springs can help remove some slack but they typically don't work well with the stock struts. tires are great as well but they don't make the car handle better, they make better use of the existing handling. the struts and springs are the weakest link... 1 Upgraded dampers & springs 2 Lightweight wheels/tires 3 Performance Alignment 4 Sway bars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 1. tires + alignment 2. dampers 3. sway bars 4. springs 5. bushings I actually really like the difference swaybars make, and wwas tempted to put them ahead of dampers due to price and ease of installation. A great bang for the buck mod that's easy to install yourself. - Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkOblivion000 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 DaveZ I am in the same boat you are in, just starting to look into suspension mods now. I will be getting a new set of ultra high performance summer tires (not exactly sure what kind yet... looking at Kumho Ecsta MX). Also will be getting TEIN H-techs and probably Koni's and sway bars to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 If you guys like to read and learn, I learned a whole lot from the discussions in this thread: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveZ Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 DaveZ I am in the same boat you are in, just starting to look into suspension mods now. I will be getting a new set of ultra high performance summer tires (not exactly sure what kind yet... looking at Kumho Ecsta MX). Also will be getting TEIN H-techs and probably Koni's and sway bars to go with it. OK Oblivion keep in trouch...I'll be interested to hear how it works out. The Tiens were on my map as well as they don't have a large drop. I'm starting to think about DIY as I see the labor quotes come in. That'd be interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkOblivion000 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 OK Oblivion keep in trouch...I'll be interested to hear how it works out. The Tiens were on my map as well as they don't have a large drop. I'm starting to think about DIY as I see the labor quotes come in. That'd be interesting.... Where are you located? I'm in CT, about an hour and a half from Paul, a member of these forums that does a lot of work with Subaru's and has gotten very good feedback, so I'm going to get him to do it. His prices are very reasonable, so as soon as I gather all my parts I'm gonna head over. If you are in the northeast at all... he's in RI so, definitely an option. Edit: NVM, I am an idiot and had no idea that "PDX" was an actual place but I google'd it and apparently it is Portland Oregon (right?) so ignore my post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjoe Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 A good set of tires will make a world of difference in the way the car handles. You'll still have the roll that comes with the stock suspension so then I'd probably go for a modest set of upgraded struts and springs (Koni's or Bilstein HD's) and springs to match (JDM Pinks, Cobbs, etc). That should remove most of the floatiness. Then maybe if you feel the need, you can upgrade the front and rear swaybars to increase the rigidity and fine tune it to the way you want it to feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Cobb springs are really not a good option for a daily driver. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who isn't going for a very specific setup that matches them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveZ Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 Cobb springs are really not a good option for a daily driver. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who isn't going for a very specific setup that matches them. I'm leaning to IONs as they calibrate them for each vehicle, suspension etc. That said Ralliteks are 1/2 the price...but drop more than I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawlwawl06 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Definitely check out the Rallitek sway bars, but I would stick with the rear bar first. The front and rear bar combined produces too much understeer. I have both on my 2.5i, but im planning to go back to the stock front sway bar soon. I have Swift springs and Konis sitting in the garage, waiting for a chance to take it to a shop for an install. How about replacing the stock strut top mounts, anyone recommend it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkOblivion000 Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Definitely check out the Rallitek sway bars, but I would stick with the rear bar first. The front and rear bar combined produces too much understeer. I have both on my 2.5i, but im planning to go back to the stock front sway bar soon. I have Swift springs and Konis sitting in the garage, waiting for a chance to take it to a shop for an install. How about replacing the stock strut top mounts, anyone recommend it? I just got a Perrin 25 rear bar... but had to cancel the front because apparently LGT's and Legacies take different front sways. Pawlwawl any experience driving around with just an aftermarket rear and a stock front? Is it weird? too much oversteer? Or if you're giong to go back to that soon let me know how it is. I am getting H-techs and maybe Koni's... I am a little concerned with the ride quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 25 is a HUGE rear against the stock front... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5941 Tires + Alignment Dampers + Springs Sway bars Bushings Braces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDork Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 I did in this order: 1) Sways 2) Wheels/tires 3) Coilovers I did sways first because the body roll in stock form is horrendous and they were relatively cheap and easy to install. They (cuscos) kept me happy for a while but eventually I lost all patience with the pathetic stock dampers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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