legacy3R Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 thanks... don't get me wrong guys, I loved the legacy... and for the price it is a steal. And I am tempted to get a jb3 chip- that gives the 335i another 80whp - up to 350whp for only a few hundred $. But I won't risk the warranty ... and it's plenty fast as is. You can get the Dinan chip for $2,000 and it bumps you up to 400hp plus its all covered by BMW's factory warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 http://filebox.vt.edu/users/mmatheos/LGT/wIMGP5644.jpg You've got a nasty growth there, I'd get that checked out. You can get the Dinan chip for $2,000 and it bumps you up to 400hp plus its all covered by BMW's factory warranty Not, it isn't. It is coved by Dinan's warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 ^^^Yep... That was it... Looks like a was off on my assertion that they said the EVO and STI were faster in a straight line then the 335XI in the article but contradicted themselves. Having driven a bunch of N54 engined cars in various state of tunes. Power falls flat on its face around 5.5k rpm. sure, power goes down after 5500 or so... but even at 7krpm the n54 makes more power than the LGT's motor does at it's power peak, so it's all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 I bit apples to oranges to compare lap times from different days. I'm not sure if a magazine would go all out to make sure that the have the ultimate lap time. Anyways, the S4 and EVO beat the 335XI by 1.5s on the Autozeitung track. Which is a lot for not being that long of a circuit. AutoZeitung, did a comparo of the S5 versus the 335i coupe. The S5 was one second faster to 200 km/h then the 335i! All is not right in the deutschland. Apparently, they had exact laptime but AutoZeitung choose the S5 over the 335i coupe:spin: S5 is sexy:cool: of course, but over many different cars tested you can still get a feel of how a car will perform on a track. It's not like the different days all only benefit the 335xi. The fact that it is 1.5 seconds slower than the EVO which is much lighter- and all about handling vs anything else (and as you can see, beats some crazy fast cars around the track) is more than enough for me. When I bought the car, I'd have thought it was much much slower than an evo around a track. I didn't think it would be at #44 on this mag's lap time chart, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 sure, power goes down after 5500 or so... but even at 7krpm the n54 makes more power than the LGT's motor does at it's power peak, so it's all relative. No... No... I'm pointing out the reviewer's are on crack in that Automobile review. Anyone that driven a N54 engined car and has a reasonable amount of sense, can tell you beyond 5.5k that power falls off dramatically. It doesn't "pull hard" to the 7k rpm redline like they mentioned in the review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 of course, but over many different cars tested you can still get a feel of how a car will perform on a track. It's not like the different days all only benefit the 335xi. The fact that it is 1.5 seconds slower than the EVO which is much lighter- and all about handling vs anything else (and as you can see, beats some crazy fast cars around the track) is more than enough for me. When I bought the car, I'd have thought it was much much slower than an evo around a track. I didn't think it would be at #44 on this mag's lap time chart, for sure. Don't know know about that.... 1.5s on a track that is under 2 miles long, is a lot to me. I could care less about the overall rankings because they weren't done in the same conditions or drivers. Unlike manufacturer 'ring times, you don't know the quality of the driver or if they were pushing that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caschmidt Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The fact that the Bimmer cost$$$ more than the STi and evo and that theyre not even in the same class proves the STi and Evo are still great cars. I dont understand why they didnt put the 1er up against the sti and evo, or the 3er against the LGT, makes no sense to me........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Don't know know about that.... 1.5s on a track that is under 2 miles long, is a lot to me. I could care less about the overall rankings because they weren't done in the same conditions or drivers. Unlike manufacturer 'ring times, you don't know the quality of the driver or if they were pushing that hard. I don't track my car, so I'm not really hung up on how big of an impact 1.5 seconds is during a race on autozeitung's track. I visualize a driver taking a an EVO X MR... and after driving around at 10/10ths for almost 2 minutes, crossing the line 1.5 seconds before the same guy in a 335xi, with its non-sport suspension and all sorts of more weight, and I just think, WOW. Admittedly, I don't know all that much about racing, besides my obsession with Top Gear and video games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Right.... If you enjoy your car that is all that matters. I'm happy for you:) There is no need to prove its worth to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhook Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Nice review, wish I could have afforded one. I have a feeling reliability may become an issue down the road though . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock2534 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Thats a pretty good review. Would you really expect the LGT to be better than the 335? I think if you do you are not being realistic. The fact that the LGT does perform similarly to the BMW for a much lower cost is what makes it a great car, for the money. Slap a $40k sticker on the LGT and suddenly it is not such a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 agreed on the AWD thing, between subaru AWD, BMW X-drive, Audi Quattro, Lexus 4WD and Honda AWD...Subaru takes the cake but to each their own, perhaps its the fact that he's driving a BMW now gives him this Bias. Why? I don't get where people are getting their info from. I have already read in previous that people are saying Audi uses open differentials. Audi doesnt use open diffs. In fact, Audi is one of the few AWD systems I compare to Subaru's. Audi's true Quattro vehicles (not the TT) use a Torsen LSD rear and a Torsen LSD in the center. Show me a Subaru, besides the STi using Torsen diffs rear AND center... To the OP, let the bashes hate, they don't know what they're missing, or they just don't care enough. Sure the Legacy is a great car, that's why I bought it and I love it. There is no denying though, that when I was looking at cars I liked the 135 and 335 far more. The 135 was in my price range, it just doesnt offer AWD which was the reason I was selling my GTI. The 335xi coupe was just way to expensive for me to go for. As a result, I settled in the spec.B. I love the car, but there's just something about a BMW. Ever since my mothers 535 I fell in love with the company. Although quite a few X drive owners have told me X drive is near useless. In terms of reliability, my moms 535 racked up 85,000 trouble free miles. My sisters 328is was a lemon though. My buddies 330Xi never had a problem. My godfathers first X5 wasa lemon, but his second X5 4.8 never had a problem. His 5 series also never had a problem. In fact, most of the BMW owners I know (which happens to be quite a few) have never had any major issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woby Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 rock 2534 - I corrected your statement; 'Slap a $40k sticker on the LGT and suddenly you're in Canada.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 according to wiki, Audi uses open diffs... and instead uses e-diffs just like BMW. [edit] quattro generation IV Starting from 1996 on Audi A4 / S4 / RS4 (B5 platform), Audi A6 / S6 / RS6, Audi A8 / S8 with both manual and automatic transmissions. Also on VW Passat B5, where it was initially referred to as syncro, but by the time it reached US soil, it had been re-christened 4motion. Also used on the Volkswagen Phaeton and Volkswagen Group D platform sister vehicles; also the Volkswagen Touareg where they use separate transmissions, PTU's and front axles. The manually locking rear differential from the earlier generations was replaced with a conventional open differential, with "Electronic Differential Lock" (EDL) (which detects wheelspin via ABS road wheel speed sensors, and applies brakes to the one spinning wheel, thus transferring torque via open differential to the opposite wheel which has more traction). EDL works at speeds up to 80 km/h (50 mph) on all quattro models (on non-quattro models: up to 40 km/h (25 mph). System type: Permanent four-wheel drive. Torsen T-2 centre differential, 50:50 'default' split, automatically apportioning up to 67% of torque transfer to either front or rear axle. Open rear differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] Open front differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] [edit] quattro generation V [citation needed] Starting from 2006 on B7 Audi RS4 and the 2008 B7 Audi S4.[1] Will become the standard fitment on all future quattro Audis with longitudinal engine layout. System type: Permanent asymmetric four-wheel drive. Torsen T-3 centre differential, 40:60 'default' split front-rear, automatically apportioning up to 80% of torque transfer to the front axle and up to 100% torque to the rear axle. Open rear differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] Open front differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 according to wiki, Audi uses open diffs... and instead uses e-diffs just like BMW. [edit] quattro generation IV Starting from 1996 on Audi A4 / S4 / RS4 (B5 platform), Audi A6 / S6 / RS6, Audi A8 / S8 with both manual and automatic transmissions. Also on VW Passat B5, where it was initially referred to as syncro, but by the time it reached US soil, it had been re-christened 4motion. Also used on the Volkswagen Phaeton and Volkswagen Group D platform sister vehicles; also the Volkswagen Touareg where they use separate transmissions, PTU's and front axles. The manually locking rear differential from the earlier generations was replaced with a conventional open differential, with "Electronic Differential Lock" (EDL) (which detects wheelspin via ABS road wheel speed sensors, and applies brakes to the one spinning wheel, thus transferring torque via open differential to the opposite wheel which has more traction). EDL works at speeds up to 80 km/h (50 mph) on all quattro models (on non-quattro models: up to 40 km/h (25 mph). System type: Permanent four-wheel drive. Torsen T-2 centre differential, 50:50 'default' split, automatically apportioning up to 67% of torque transfer to either front or rear axle. Open rear differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] Open front differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] [edit] quattro generation V [citation needed] Starting from 2006 on B7 Audi RS4 and the 2008 B7 Audi S4.[1] Will become the standard fitment on all future quattro Audis with longitudinal engine layout. System type: Permanent asymmetric four-wheel drive. Torsen T-3 centre differential, 40:60 'default' split front-rear, automatically apportioning up to 80% of torque transfer to the front axle and up to 100% torque to the rear axle. Open rear differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] Open front differential, Electronic Differential Lock (EDL).[4] I feel like an idiot.... In regards to EDL, it is NO substitute to a true LSD. My GTI used an EDL and that thing would love to do one wheel peels. I have heard from many X drive owners that it is completely pointless in the snow though. Which makes me even happier with the Subaru. Let's also remember, Subaru no longer uses a LSD on the WRX now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 EDL is no substitute for anything Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 EDL is no substitute for anything Haha this is correct, my GTI would light up one tire and one tire only! Clearly EDL wasn't that effective was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 the effectiveness of LSD's vs EDiffs is an age old debate- I haven't seen any hard data or objective testing, not to mention that manufacturers don't seem to publish many technical details and stats on their diff systems. So, most of what were read about this stuff is internet forum opinion. Talk to sajohnson on nasioc, and he'll tell you that the lsd in the wrx barely transfers enough torque to squish an ant. I'm of the mind that audi, bmw, infiniti, porsche and others that use E-diffs aren't doing it because it's cheaper and inferior to an LSD... LSDs exist in Imprezas, Srt-4s and Sentras... I don' t think that those are automatically better. I think the incorporation of the newest gen of vdc/dsc stability control and it's integration with all wheel drive systems makes many LSDs pretty much obsolete. I'm sure there are awesome advanced LSD's in other cars... but I think it's a bit too often that someone sees LSD - no matter what type or in what car, and automatically thinks that's the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Manufacturers are clearly usinig edl becasue they are cheaper and they can offer a lot of gizmos since they are electronic. It only takes one drive in slippery conditions to know with certainty that an edl is no better than an open diff, but those are hard to market Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Manufacturers are clearly usinig edl becasue they are cheaper and they can offer a lot of gizmos since they are electronic. It only takes one drive in slippery conditions to know with certainty that an edl is no better than an open diff, but those are hard to market I would agree that anecdotaly, lsds seem to perform better than e-diffs in 2wd cars. I did drive a turbo rover (fwd, with lsd) on a 100 mile trip once and I had to white knuckle the steering wheel to keep it in its lane during acceleration due to torque steer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 G35X/G37X/EX/FX/M35X/M45x/Pathfinder/Armada etc. use electronic LSD as well. The only current AWD/4X4 Nissan that has proper diffs is the GT-R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtmenace Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 & the xterra off-road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camber Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 & the xterra off-road Whoops.... Forgot about the X-terra. Isn't Audi coming out with some new whiz-bang torque vectoring system ala Mitsu S-AWC and SH-AWD(The system found in the RL. Not the other crappy variations)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxvt Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Whoops.... Forgot about the X-terra. Isn't Audi coming out with some new whiz-bang torque vectoring system ala Mitsu S-AWC and SH-AWD(The system found in the RL. Not the other crappy variations)? yeah, I've heard that they are. BMW has something similar in the works, if not already out on the X6 xDrive50i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I would agree that anecdotaly, lsds seem to perform better than e-diffs in 2wd cars. I did drive a turbo rover (fwd, with lsd) on a 100 mile trip once and I had to white knuckle the steering wheel to keep it in its lane during acceleration due to torque steer. Most EDLs stop working above about 25 mph anyhow. (EDL refers to a fake diff controlled by the brakes, electroniclly controlled diffs are different) G35X/G37X/EX/FX/M35X/M45x/Pathfinder/Armada etc. use electronic LSD as well. The only current AWD/4X4 Nissan that has proper diffs is the GT-R. Infiniti/Nissan's ATTESA-ETS is used in the G35 and M35/45x. The ETS uses an electronically controlled wet clutch-pack and a VLSD, which is certainly a "real" LSD. This is teh same system found in the R32 GTR. It does not ahve right/left control or yaw control unlike later GTRs (and reacts slower than them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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