ShadowImg Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 This is an unusual and unfortunate event which we have not seen this failure at all with our sway bars. I noticed you put on some collars right before the break. We don't suggest anyone puts collars on the bars since they do need some movement play around, and by having those their you're creating a major stress point. We stand behind our products and if there's ever an issue we resolve it in a timely matter but we can not guarantee that our products will perform if they've been tampered with. We offered the customer to sell him a brand new FSB less then cost for us; since the bar is indeed out of warranty and now looks like the failure point can lead to those collars. While I don't want to comment on the offer/deal between him and you guys to buy a new one, can I request that you guys have him send you the broken bar for analysis? As someone who has bar installed on their car, I sure would like to see you guys look into it and make sure there wasn't a batch of bars made with metal defects or something else. It's easy to assume why something would break, but since I have this on my vehicle I'd rather not go on assumptions. If I were in Cobb's shoes and I heard about this, I'd pretty much be chomping at the bit to get that bar back and figure out why the hell it broke and make sure it isn't going to happen to anyone else. If it were to happen in such a manner as to cause an accident, and turns out to be a material defect or something, oh boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaGe Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 tell them to keep their sway bars and go to perrin/whiteline or whoever. just remember, maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters. what if you didnt have those collors on there? then the excuse woudl be it is out of warranty and we will sell you another one for cheap. but we cant do anything cuz it is out of warranty. <robeeyes> OTM. Sorry I didn't mean to start a war which mainly forum people is all about . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 robeeyes? do you mean.. ? "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancobbtuning.com Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sorry I didn't mean to start a war which mainly forum people is all about . The sales manager has contacted fatbastard directly and the issue has been taken care of. I'd like to include though the thousands upon the thousands of bars we've sold and this is the only issue that comes up in one case isn't something to worry about, although it's very unfortunate. Initially when I received the photos I misinterpret the customer saying it was his RSB. These bars have been through rigorous and numerous tests on daily driven roads, rally events and even extreme road course conditions and we never seen an actual bar snap. I'll stop here before fueling the fire but I wanted you all to know the situation has been addressed and further investigating is taking place. Any questions/concerns feel free to PM/Call/email us directly. dan@cobbtuning.com 801.713.0035 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 glad to hear it. I hope if there is a flaw in your design that we can learn from it. if not.. I hope we can find out what happened either way.. and learn from that.. as long as we learn that's whats important. I love your products other than suspension btw. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LGT-NY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 glad to hear it. I hope if there is a flaw in your design that we can learn from it. if not.. I hope we can find out what happened either way.. and learn from that.. as long as we learn that's whats important. Wait I'm confused, should we be learning from this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowImg Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 ^ Not really sure either. I don't doubt Cobb's design on it is perfectly solid, but we all know that when you run off enough parts there's bound to be a few that just have some sort of manufacturing or metal defect. I hope that's what we have here, and I hope it's isolated and not a batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbastard Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Crap. Of course the bar moves side to side. As load is transferred from one suspension side, the bar will be loaded by the link. The first motion will be lateral and once it can't move anymore laterally, the bar will twist, supplying the resistance to roll. If it wasn't diesigned to slide, ALL sway bars would have a built in collar to resist such movement. The purpose of the bar is to limit relative motion from one side of the vehicle to the other, they are not designed to transfer the load from one side to the other. They are designed to have opposing forces. If the bar is allowed to slip this is what would happen and there would be compressive forces in teh bar, since the bar is much stronger than the end links teh links typically break as many have seen. Installing collar only limits the amount of excessive wear teh endlinks will see. Now if I had bent or broken the sway on the outboard side of the collar I would agree with you that they could have been the cause. In this case as the bar would try to slide the collar would be held to the bushing transfering all the compressive load to the frame. With teh extra force pushing teh collar into the bushing it could lock up which would resist further vertical movement of the endlink putting extreme forces on the outboard section of bar. There seems to be no rational explanation as to why the stress would have been concerntrated where it was. Again, hopefully I will know more once teh bar is off. I have sent an email to Scott at Cobb and told him I will be inspecting the crack with other engineers at work to try to determine the root cause. I will also ask them if they will share info about their annealing process since this could be a factor. In a previous post someone asked how many miles were on the bar...I would say between 40-50k. This is my daily driver and only sees occasional dirt roads when getting to a trail head. A s apoint of reference I used to take my Acura Integra down the same roads so they are pretty tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 what are we learning? we're hopefully going to learn what went wrong.. and how to keep it from happening to anyone else. "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LGT-NY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Learn that only learning can learn from learners that learn alot while learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbastard Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Learn that only learning can learn from learners that learn alot while learning. Well let's start by learning that alot is not a word, it is a lot. Not that I should talk, being an engineer I can't spell or put together a grammatically correct setence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LGT-NY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunalety, I too am an Engineer with a Master so I have no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerboa113 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Learn that only learning can learn from learners that learn alot while learning. cos KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindspin311 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 You know, you could always label this a freak accident and move on. There's not way you're going to find a failure mode for this. Its metal in torsion, eventually its going to cycle to the point where it fails. Since you're an engineer, consider it an outlier. One random ass case that goes against everything else statistics has showed you. There's no reason to try and track it down, just not worth the time. It appears you've been offered a decent solution from Cobb, you can take it and move on. No use getting all crazy about it. No one is injured, just move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbastard Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 You could be completely correct....this could and probably just is a complete fluke. Based on what Cobb has told me and I have no reason to suspect they would lie, this is the only failure of a LGT bar they know of. You are also correct in saying that investigating the crack propegation may yeild nothing. But as I said from teh beginning I am VERY lucky this broke at slow speed. If there is a chance this failure could happen again I do not want it on my car since next time I might not be so lucky. Again, you say that metal in torsion will eventually fail....this is partly true but it has a lot to do with how much load is applied and how much the bar was designed to hold and its yield strength. Again, I knot posting to bash Cobb. They have been extremely helpful. I am also not posting to get people in a frenzy. Chances are this will not happen to anyone else but the great part of this forum is that peole can post their experiences, problems and solutions that may help others. All information is good so long as it is factual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaGe Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sorry I didn't mean to start a war which mainly forum people is all about . Yep. how did you guess. I am also a forum user of this site who has purchased a new COBB HFC down pipe, COBB DA STS, COBB shifter bushings, COBB transmission mount, COBB sway bars, COBB endlinks, etc..... Add that up, and remember that since most of us are all about a "WAR". How am i benifiting from this? is it wrong to be concerned for another persons life? or is it wrong to wonder if this will happen to you because you are running COBB suspension components as well? Is it wrong to wonder how the issue is being addressed in case this should happen to someone else? yep, but we are all a bunch of COBB purchasing assholes who decide to buy your products. there was a poster on here who said it best. The best way to handle this would be to send the bar back to cobb, let them take a look at it and go from there and address the issue, instead of just saying well you did this to the bar, its out of warranty, but we will discount you for the purchase of a new bar. even the original poster is not blaiming COBB or anything, but trying to disect what exactly happened, which i agree with him 100%. no finger pointing. but comeone cobb. accusing people of starting a war, when you dont come on here but to advertise a new project that you all are starting so us war starting people can buy is a slap to my face. just remember, the economy isnt all that great, and it would be an aweful tragedy if people started shopping somewhere else because your fingers are getting the best of you. and yes i typed it right <robeeyes> its an inside thing. sincerely the war starters. OTM. Sorry I didn't mean to start a war which mainly forum people is all about . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LGT-NY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I you RaGe. Well said, and to Dan: We are not starting a war, we are just concerned about a fellow member of our community. COBB makes quality goods for the most part (albiet expensive) but it would be comforting if a company took ownership of a problem possibly atributable to construction instead of deflecting possible cause to the user. Like RaGe, I have well over $2000 worth of COBB merch on my vehicle. :robeeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re-read Cobb's response. He wasn't accusing, it was just that the thread was degenerating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaGe Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 yeah right. OTM. Sorry I didn't mean to start a war which mainly forum people is all about . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wang Lung Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Standing by for autopsy results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinlsb Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Crap. Of course the bar moves side to side. As load is transferred from one suspension side, the bar will be loaded by the link. The first motion will be lateral and once it can't move anymore laterally, the bar will twist, supplying the resistance to roll. If it wasn't diesigned to slide, ALL sway bars would have a built in collar to resist such movement. I'll stick with KRB on this one. Most after market bars that have built in collars mounted inboard. Even whiteline collars are sold in pairs of four. Any suspension part can fail and any aftermarket modifications can increase the probability of a failure of some sort (like the rear sway bar mounts.) That is why I have my mechanic closely inspect ALL of my suspension parts, particularly things like end links (Perrin) Sways (Cobb) Shocks (BC/BR), LCA's(Perrin), Etc. every time I change the oil. If I have the time, I will do it with him using a flashlight. It takes what, 5 minutes? When was the last time YOU took a close look at your suspension bits for wear and tear????????? And while you are at it, check the CV boots, it could save you a lot of money!!!!!:lol: "Belief does not make truth. Evidence makes truth. And belief does not make evidence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbastard Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 A visual inspection would not have found this, the crack appears to have occured inside the bushing. I agree checking parts is important and proper maintenance of bushing is critical to parts operating correctly. As a side note, many still think the collars may have been a factor. Not saying your wrong since I do not know yet, but even Cobb has said in a recent email they do not believe the collars were a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LGT-NY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Learn that only learning can learn from learners that learn alot while learning. Well let's start by learning that alot is not a word, it is a lot. Not that I should talk, being an engineer I can't spell or put together a grammatically correct setence. Not saying your wrong since I do not know yet, but even Cobb has said in a recent email they do not believe the collars were a factor. Let's continue the learning process by learning that your and you're are two different words with two defferent meanings that are in no way synonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Let's continue the learning process by learning that your and you're are two different words with two defferent meanings that are in no way synonymous. http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:9X8y6CV-Rzuk0M:http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/hanzelsolos/Im_watching_you.gif The Crimson Dynamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbastard Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 we are all teh suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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