D0WNxSH1FT Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I thought the BMW xDrive had a Honda SH-AWD-like torque vectoring mechanism, like the Acura RL (but not the RDX, TL and MDX...) No. The only vectoring AWD systems are... FWD Biased (100:0 unless slipping) Acura's SH-AWD (MDX, RDX, RL, TL) Saab's XWD Haldex 4 (9-3 TurboX) % of torque split between rear tires is dependent upon RPM of engine. 50:50 Split Mitsubishi's S-AWC (Evo X) Nissan's Attesa E-TS (Skyline GT-R) % of torque split between rear tires is INDEPENDENT of engine speed. Audi is supposed to come out w/ a vectoring Quattro in the new S4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I've driven a 335xi extensively and it's an awesome car, leagues apart from the LGT. Drove a loaner 325 from the dealer one day and honestly, I couldn't wait to get out of it. Feels like a rental car, both in terms of dynamics and finish. No comparison to the LGT in my mind. How could the fit/finish of the 335 be superior to the 328 which is 100% identical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 It's 7 better Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Whoa great mods fonts! I'm gonna check that all out, plus whatever else i can find on the forum. I'll do a search for bluetooth as well. Thanks. There is so much you can do with the LGT..... but it is still a great all round car.... especially up here in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siper2 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Winter tires are an absolute necessity, where you are. I think any RWD Bimmer handles itself splendidly, with the appropriate tires. Frankly, most people who complain about them, are using the wrong sneakers on their car. That said, AWD with winter tires will obviously have more capability than RWD with winter tires. So, the rest is up to preference - go drive both! Besides, that's the fun part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Hell, AWD with decent AS tires can do as good in deeper white stuff as a rear drive car with snows. Another issues is gas mileage. A small V6 will gobble up gas compared to a 4cyl. Keep the LGT out of boost and it's NA 4cyl gas mileage. But that's kinda hard....and is that 328 available as a stick? Or are you stuck with the auto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Hell, AWD with decent AS tires can do as good in deeper white stuff as a rear drive car with snows. Another issues is gas mileage. A small V6 will gobble up gas compared to a 4cyl. Keep the LGT out of boost and it's NA 4cyl gas mileage. But that's kinda hard....and is that 328 available as a stick? Or are you stuck with the auto? 328xi = AWD 328xi MPG = 17/25 vs Spec.B 17/24 328xi = 6MT or 6AT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolksey85 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 328xi = AWD 328xi MPG = 17/25 vs Spec.B 17/24 328xi = 6MT or 6AT I knew the Xi was AWD but the previous posts were related to rear drive. Also I had no idea the mileage would be identical. I thought the small six with AWD would be more of a guzzler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I see on average 10 BMW's to 1 LGT, & I've only once seen an LGT wagon in my life.. Based on price, features/specs, reliability, aftermarket options & the fact that you're not 1 in a 1,000,000 people driving a BMW.. No brainer.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I knew the Xi was AWD but the previous posts were related to rear drive. Also I had no idea the mileage would be identical. I thought the small six with AWD would be more of a guzzler. the 300hp/300tq, twin turbo 6cyl 335 gets 16/25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaks2 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 No. The only vectoring AWD systems are... FWD Biased (100:0 unless slipping) Acura's SH-AWD (MDX, RDX, RL, TL) Saab's XWD Haldex 4 (9-3 TurboX) % of torque split between rear tires is dependent upon RPM of engine. 50:50 Split Mitsubishi's S-AWC (Evo X) Nissan's Attesa E-TS (Skyline GT-R) % of torque split between rear tires is INDEPENDENT of engine speed. Audi is supposed to come out w/ a vectoring Quattro in the new S4. Here is what I have read from the all knowing Wikipedia: It essentially is a set of clutch packs in a T-shaped differential at the rear of the vehicle. There is no center differential. Rather the vehicles have transverse mounted engines with power take-off units going to the T-shaped rear differential/clutch packs. The three clutch packs can engage for the right rear wheel, the left rear wheel, or near the base of the T. With the Acura RL sedan, the system sends 70% of power to the front wheels and 30% to the rear under normal conditions but these ratios can reverse according if needed. The system can work because the clutches can slip under circumstances where the vehicle is turning, thus allowing the rear and front wheels to turn at different rates around a curve. SH-AWD in the Acura RL also features an "acceleration device" just ahead of the rear differential which, through the use of a planetary gear set, can overdrive the rear axles by as much as five percent. This is done only when cornering. SH-AWD in the Acura RDX and Acura MDX use a default power split of 90% to the front and 10% to the rear. Like the unit in the RL, both can power the rear wheels with up to 70% of the engine torque. With this variant of SH-AWD, there is no acceleration device. Instead, the rear differential is constantly overdriven by 1.7 percent. During straight line performance, that difference is scrubbed off by the clutch packs. When cornering, the difference is used to overdrive the outside rear wheel. The power split under straight-line, high-speed acceleration varies from vehicle to vehicle. It approximates the weight distribution for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Saab has a new system as well that has rear diff that can adjust torque split side-to-side -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex--TheGreek Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 In my opinion, the Legacy is the definition of value. Also advantages of the Legacy: Plenty of power, mod-friendly, proper AWD system,rarity, very reliable(the latest bmw's are far from the solid reliable german "tanks" that they used to be!) And as for looks compare this*(completely stock except STI lowering springs) to a 3-series. Whatever you may decide, enjoy and have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Saab has a new system as well that has rear diff that can adjust torque split side-to-side Yea that is the one i mentioned... Saab's XWD which is Haldex 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 In my opinion' date=' the Legacy is the definition of value.[/quote'] If only we got that bumper in the US. Also, a brand new Spec.B is $35,000. You can get a 2007 BMW 335xi which is a lot faster and more luxurious for $35,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 My Legacy (GT) was a fuel injector eating, head lamp burning, squeaking, rattling, fuel swilling bastard. Good riddance to it. Given that the only 3 series worth having is the 335i, 335xi, or 335d (all out of the OP's price range) I would also skip the 328xi, and I used to sell BMW's and love them for the most part. If I were the OP I would be looking for an AWD Infiniti G37 sedan. That would give you the big motor and the AWD for a pretty reasonable price. Hmmm 328hp and 269lb-ft should be a lot more exciting than 230hp (328xi) or the 241hp (or whatever it was downrated to from the original 250hp) of the Spec B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siper2 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 It wasn't downrated, the hp measuring system changed. The actual power didn't change, FYI. I love the 328xi, and a 3 wagon would be my Bimmer of choice. However I do wish that they made the bigger 3s in wagon form, such as the 335. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 My Legacy (GT) was a fuel injector eating, head lamp burning, squeaking, rattling, fuel swilling bastard. Good riddance to it. Given that the only 3 series worth having is the 335i, 335xi, or 335d (all out of the OP's price range) I would also skip the 328xi, and I used to sell BMW's and love them for the most part. If I were the OP I would be looking for an AWD Infiniti G37 sedan. That would give you the big motor and the AWD for a pretty reasonable price. Hmmm 328hp and 269lb-ft should be a lot more exciting than 230hp (328xi) or the 241hp (or whatever it was downrated to from the original 250hp) of the Spec B. It's too bad you had such a bad experience with the LGT. Certainly other members have had some of the same problems you've referred to as well ... just not all in one car. My experience has been quite the opposite. I absolutely love the car. As for the Infiniti .... beautiful looking car both inside and out. Unfortunately I don't know much about the G37 but assume that all features being equal it comes in at bigger bucks than a SpecB. The G37x would be even more. I do however know the G35x. I know that a few of the major complaints about the G35x were that you couldn't get them in manual transmission and their AWD system is an on-demand system only. That's why I dediced on the SpecB. I'm not sure whether or not those things have changed with the release of the G37/G37x versus the previous generation G35/G35x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 It wasn't downrated, the hp measuring system changed. The actual power didn't change, FYI. Sure it wasn't downrated. That's why a few engines were actually found to make more power than they were rated for, and others stayed spot on what they were rated for under the new testing (like all the BMW motors). The power is still the same measurement, the testing is just more strict on having all the belt driven accessories on the motor for testing. Which a reputable, ethical manufacturer would have done anyway. Nothing changed with the measuring system at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 It's too bad you had such a bad experience with the LGT. Certainly other members have had some of the same problems you've referred to as well ... just not all in one car. My experience has been quite the opposite. I absolutely love the car. As for the Infiniti .... beautiful looking car both inside and out. Unfortunately I don't know much about the G37 but assume that all features being equal it comes in at bigger bucks than a SpecB. The G37x would be even more. I do however know the G35x. I know that a few of the major complaints about the G35x were that you couldn't get them in manual transmission and their AWD system is an on-demand system only. That's why I dediced on the SpecB. I'm not sure whether or not those things have changed with the release of the G37/G37x versus the previous generation G35/G35x. Figure the G37x as starting out at $36K sticker US, and with some nice options pushing $38K. About like a 328xi both base and with options, except with power a lot closer to the 335xi. It may be a little more expensive than a Spec B, but it has a lot more power, more room, and a better interior too. As far as the AWD system goes, so much is made on here about full time AWD and on demand AWD. I find it laughable at best. We are not talking about off road vehicles here, designed to crawl over rocks, claw through mud, and go through sand. A part time/on demand AWD system with VSC is more than enough for on road use in inclement weather. When I worked for BMW I had the chance to drive their X-Drive equipped vehicles in the snow pretty frequently and they always did great. At least as well as my LGT did, in most cases the BMW's did better given the craptastic stock tires Subaru uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttlejockey Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Figure the G37x as starting out at $36K sticker US, and with some nice options pushing $38K. About like a 328xi both base and with options, except with power a lot closer to the 335xi. It may be a little more expensive than a Spec B, but it has a lot more power, more room, and a better interior too. As far as the AWD system goes, so much is made on here about full time AWD and on demand AWD. I find it laughable at best. We are not talking about off road vehicles here, designed to crawl over rocks, claw through mud, and go through sand. A part time/on demand AWD system with VSC is more than enough for on road use in inclement weather. When I worked for BMW I had the chance to drive their X-Drive equipped vehicles in the snow pretty frequently and they always did great. At least as well as my LGT did, in most cases the BMW's did better given the craptastic stock tires Subaru uses. Okay. We get the point, you don't like Subaru's. Move along. There must be a BMW or Infiniti site where you can praise their car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunra Posted December 15, 2008 Author Share Posted December 15, 2008 In my opinion, the Legacy is the definition of value. Also advantages of the Legacy: Plenty of power, mod-friendly, proper AWD system,rarity, very reliable(the latest bmw's are far from the solid reliable german "tanks" that they used to be!) And as for looks compare this*(completely stock except STI lowering springs) to a 3-series. Whatever you may decide, enjoy and have fun Wow! Beautiful photo, great looking car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Okay. We get the point, you don't like Subaru's. Move along. There must be a BMW or Infiniti site where you can praise their car. It's true I didn't care for my LGT very much by the time it went away. I've been on here since right around 2004, and I know a lot of people. So, I think I'll stick around. Seeing as how it's a free country. If you can't handle differing opinions then maybe you should go elsewhere, otherwise your feelings are liable to get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D0WNxSH1FT Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I gotta tell you, if I am going to lose traction I would rather have full time 50/50 or whatever split of power to all 4 wheels than allow my car to slip, then wait for a computer to think before sending power to the front or rear. Most of those sytems can't even send a ton of power to the rear/front. And we all know how great RWD is in the snow. I'd rather not deal with that and then hope the fronts turn on, a la BMW and Infiniti 4WD systems. Now, I am seriously considering a 2007 Volvo S60R which has Haldex2 (FWD Biased 4WD). But the Haldex is worrying me. Although, $27,000 for 300 hp, 6MT, Brembos and Luxury is a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Figure the G37x as starting out at $36K sticker US, and with some nice options pushing $38K. About like a 328xi both base and with options, except with power a lot closer to the 335xi. It may be a little more expensive than a Spec B, but it has a lot more power, more room, and a better interior too. As far as the AWD system goes, so much is made on here about full time AWD and on demand AWD. I find it laughable at best. We are not talking about off road vehicles here, designed to crawl over rocks, claw through mud, and go through sand. A part time/on demand AWD system with VSC is more than enough for on road use in inclement weather. When I worked for BMW I had the chance to drive their X-Drive equipped vehicles in the snow pretty frequently and they always did great. At least as well as my LGT did, in most cases the BMW's did better given the craptastic stock tires Subaru uses. You may think that the difference between full time AWD and on demand AWD is laughable. That may be the case depending on your climate and the amount of poor weather conditions you experience. The OP and I both live in Canada where we get a significant amount of poor weather. There is a difference between both AWD systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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