taskforcefreddy Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Hey everyone, I'm installing my Prodrive EBCS (on the left) and Labonte Boost Bypass (on the right) and Failsafe kit in preparation for my tune on the 10th and am having trouble figuring out how to plumb my hoses to make these things work in harmony. I've found some great info on installing the Prodrive EBCS and that in itself would be easy however the instructions that came with the BBK are confusing. Am wondering if someone could PowerPoint some lines on the photo below? Thanks much. http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/taskforcefreddy/Subaru%20Legacy%20GT/DSCF1813.jpg
LittleBlueGT Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Instructions for the BBK? Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!!
mwiener2 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 never heard of a BBK before (Big Brake Kit excepted) looks like you have two of the same thing with different names My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons
taskforcefreddy Posted October 5, 2008 Author Posted October 5, 2008 Hey guys... BBK= The Labonte Boost Bypass Kit. And I concur. It looks just like the prodrive EBCS and does basically the same thing only it gets its signal from the WI Controller As far as they instuctions on the BBK, very vague (spell?) to the point of confusion. I will email the guys at Labonte with the same pic to see what they recommend. Thanks for looking.
mwiener2 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 O, I get it. Instead of putting the $$ for an aftermarket ECU that could handle Water Injection, you get a second EBCS controlled by the WI computer to raise boost when it sprays. Complicated setups only lead to big power, followed by a very big, complicated failure. As far as setting that up, you need the BBK to be piped in BEFORE the EBCS so that it could further raise boost beyond what the EBCS is letting it. Having two solenoids in series is gonna be a serious tuning nightmare to get everything to work right together My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons
rao Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Trying to do this with an interrupt style boost control system isn't going to work, doing it with a bleed type of system (like the stock system) will work fine. I would toss the EBCS and use the stock solenoid in stock configuration. Take the BBK (I love acronyms, it makes everyone sound so smart and in touch ) and set it up so that when it is triggered due to the failsafe - it sends boost pressure directly to the wastegate. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT
LittleBlueGT Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Listen to rao, not weiner. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!!
Silverstar Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I purchased a BBK and found that it was a much cleaner install to just wire in a relay to one of the lines to the stock solenoid.
mwiener2 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Listen to rao, not weiner. We just described two ways of doing it. 1 (the way i described) adds boost when the WI is spraying 2 (rao's meathod) cuts boost if the WI fails they acomplish the same thing My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons
LittleBlueGT Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 We just described two ways of doing it. 1 (the way i described) adds boost when the WI is spraying 2 (rao's meathod) cuts boost if the WI fails they acomplish the same thing You describe how you propose tuning your method, if you can come up with something that actually realistically works (and has been done before) I will be shocked. The way rao said makes sense. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!!
taskforcefreddy Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 Thanks for all the input. In times of need, I have a bad habit of trusting my tuner. I called my guy at IA performance in Tucson (the most highly regarded tuner in my area AFAIK) and told him I will be upgrading my meth kit to incorporate the Labonte Failsafe. His recommendation was to use both the BBK (it's not just an acronym it's the actual name of the product) and the Prodrive EBCS. I have had zero reason to doubt this guy in the past. The vague Labonte directions does give instructions on how it can be used with a 3-port EBCS, so it is possible. Is there reason for concern?
taskforcefreddy Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 I took a picture of the Labonte instruction sheet. I would be doing install B. If this makes sense to you, you're a better man that I. Thanks again. http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/taskforcefreddy/Subaru%20Legacy%20GT/DSCF1814.jpg
LittleBlueGT Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I took a picture of the Labonte instruction sheet. I would be doing install B. If this makes sense to you, you're a better man that I. Thanks again. http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/taskforcefreddy/Subaru%20Legacy%20GT/DSCF1814.jpg Makes sense to me. When the 3-port EBCS is being activated (not sure what to call it, but when it is trying to raise the boost) the port from the turbo (boost source) to the WG actuator is blocked, but the port from the WG actuator to the BBK is open. If the alky system's failsafe is being activated it will just reroute the pressure back into the EBCS, causing the car to run at WG srping value boost only. If the alky system's failsafe is not being activated then it will allow normal funcitoning of th EBCS to raise boost to tuned level. Just hook it up like it says. If you are still unsure then get a 12v source and run through the different scenarios. Then blow in the vacuum lines to see if it does what you think. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!!
taskforcefreddy Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 ^^^ So, based off your guidance and my ability to deduct, this is how it should be hooked up... http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii140/taskforcefreddy/Subaru%20Legacy%20GT/EBCSandBBK.jpg
LittleBlueGT Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Close, take a look at this, revise your drawing and post it up again. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f137/SpDRcrWrex/WRX/my%20wrx/tech%20pics/ProdriveBCS_3port_hookup.jpg Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!!
jamal Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 maybe you should just have the tuner install it for you.
taskforcefreddy Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 ^^^ Yeah, I was considering that too.
taskforcefreddy Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 LBGT, Yeah, if I was installing just the EBCS, that's exactly how it should look however the BBK instructions make no reference of sending a line to the intake. What do you think?
rao Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I think if you hook it up the way you are planning the fail safe won't work at all. You CANNOT use the BBK in an interrupt system without running 2 seperate paths with check valves. An interrupt system is not worth it and yo don't need the EBCS anyway Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT
taskforcefreddy Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 ^^^ Thanks man. I'll be bringing the car to the tuner this friday and I'll have the BBK installed. If they want the EBCS in, I'll let them put it in themselves.
LittleBlueGT Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I can't say I know for sure how the BBK works (I don't have one). When I posted the pic of the plumbing for the pro-drive EBCS I did so becasue just the pro-drive plumbing looked off (wrong ports in wrong spots). This is how I think the BBK would work (pretty easy to check with a 12v source: (red is pressure, blue is blocked port) 0% WGDC BBK active (by active I mean it is cutting boost) http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/0WGDCBBKactive.jpg 0% WGDC BBK not active http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/0WGDCBBKnotactive.jpg 100% WGDC BBK not active http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/100WGDCBBKnotactive.jpg 100% WGDC BBK active http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/littlebluegt/100WGDCBBKactive.jpg What is wrong with that? To rao: if I have some info wrong, I would like to know, as I think you may have some experience with this. FWIW I just use a solenoid with my alky system, when it senses a problem it just disrupts the signal going to the EBCS. Much easier IMO. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!!
subaruski Posted December 11, 2008 Posted December 11, 2008 newbie question... what the heck are these things?
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