Gorge Jetson Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 I have a new 2009 Legacy 2.5i Special Edition that is essentially a base 2.5i with a couple of upgrades (Harmon Kardon stereo, sunroof). Just got done installing an upgraded Cusco 21mm rear sway bar, which eliminated the understeer and made handling neutral to interesting. Now I'd like to tighten it up a little bit so I can take the corners a little more aggressively. At first I was just going to upgrade the wheels from 17" to 18" (and therefore giving me less sidewall and a tighter overall spring rate), but I think that's not going to give me what I'm looking for. Plus, adding up wheels, tires, and those silly TPMS monitors meant a couple of kilobucks, which I'm not really down for. Anyone have any ideas? Perhaps some springs only with a higher spring rate, with or without a little lowering? How much of a pain is it to replace the springs?
andrew.anderson Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 Coilovers or even he Blistiens from the Spec B would be an improvement.
jamal Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 the key things are good tires, good struts, and enough spring/swaybar to keep the car moderately flat. Struts, though, are the most important part of the suspension. They do all the work. They are what keeps the tire in contact with the road and controls the motion of the chassis. That's why cheap coilovers suck (yeah, I'm looking at you megan racing). Sure, they're stiff. Sure, you can slam your car. Sure, there are 32-clicks of mystery adjustment. But on a budget coilover the dampers suck and there's no travel, and well everything else about them is pretty shoddy.. Bilstein, on the other hand, makes great dampers. They even went through the trouble of extending the housing on the spec-b to add bump travel. Koni, Ohlins, and KW also make quality parts. After that the list of nice shocks gets very short and very expensive.
Beanboy Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 Used JDM Bilstein strut/spring combo. Best bang for the buck, matched set to work with your car (although might be a little off being 2.5i), OEM level reliability, and even if one goes, $60 and shipping Bilstein in US will rebuild it for you. Can even get them redamped. -B http://www.standardshift.com
Guest Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 Doesn't matter it's 2.5i. Same car. Bilsteins w/JDM springs is indeed very cost effective combo.
Underdog Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 In order of importance: 1. Tires (continental conitextreme... if you're looking for a low cost quality A/S) 2. Struts (Koni, Bilstein HD, Tokico) 3. LCA Bushings (AVO or Superpro) Lowering springs on stock struts and tires will not give you better cornering, just flatter cornering and a jarring ride while you're losing traction. The Crimson Dynamo
Beanboy Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 Doesn't matter it's 2.5i. Same car. Bilsteins w/JDM springs is indeed very cost effective combo. Could matter. If Subaru felt that longer springs for wagon in back were needed for only a 55 pounds difference in weight between GT sedan and wagon, The 150+ pounds between 2.5i and GT could have one side of the front/both sides a little bit off from where they should thanks to the turbo and associated hardware. Not a huge deal, but figured it was worth mentioning, especially if somebody is going after handling improvements and not just looks. -B http://www.standardshift.com
rao Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 Tires Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT
Gorge Jetson Posted October 1, 2008 Author Posted October 1, 2008 This is a lease so I'm not really interested in pouring a lot of money into it. Additionally, I've decided to leave the stock 17" wheels and tires (Yokohama Advan A62's) alone, since I have a 24-month, 20,000 mile (total) lease and will likely turn the vehicle in with what's left of the stockers. So really I'm looking at springs, shocks, or a combo (coilovers), with the largest consideration and weight going toward bang-for-the-buck.
Underdog Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 Think of it this way... can you overwhelm the stock tires with your current cornering ability? Chances are you can. Adding sways or springs will not get you around the corner any faster because your tires don't have the necessary traction. Better tires will not only help you corner faster with the suspension you already have, but you will be able to accelerate and brake better too. (okay, maybe just brake better... I don't think the 2.5i can spin it's tires ) But... that being said, if you're dead-set on springs, struts, or coilovers then you will not be convinced otherwise. Tires are much less expensive (even really nice tires) than a proper spring/strut or coilover upgrade and those parts will be neutered anyways due to the crappy stock tires. The Crimson Dynamo
JoeFromPA Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 You can buy my LGT sway bars once I switch to cobbs.... Joe
Gorge Jetson Posted October 1, 2008 Author Posted October 1, 2008 Think of it this way... can you overwhelm the stock tires with your current cornering ability? Chances are you can. Adding sways or springs will not get you around the corner any faster because your tires don't have the necessary traction. Better tires will not only help you corner faster with the suspension you already have, but you will be able to accelerate and brake better too. (okay, maybe just brake better... I don't think the 2.5i can spin it's tires ) But... that being said, if you're dead-set on springs, struts, or coilovers then you will not be convinced otherwise. Tires are much less expensive (even really nice tires) than a proper spring/strut or coilover upgrade and those parts will be neutered anyways due to the crappy stock tires. Are the Yokohamas crappy tires? I thought they were pretty good, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, if you can show me where people are saying they are awful. Even if I get cheap wheels (e.g.$125/each, which I prefer not to do) and just decent tires, I am still looking at $1200 to $1500 minimum for 18" wheels and tires. I can get front and rear Eibachs for ~$200. The only variable I am unclear on is installation cost.
Underdog Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 The point is... if you are overcoming the grip available (whether the tire is crappy or not), then springs and swaybars won't get you anything more in terms of cornering force. Struts and tires are where it's at. In my opinion, ContiExtreme Contact at <$100 a piece would be a great upgrade for a quality winter-biased all season. If you keep them on the same wheels, then your price is even better. Alternatively, pick up some GT wheels (cheap) and put some performance summer rubber on them, and use your stockers for winter tires. The Crimson Dynamo
Gorge Jetson Posted October 1, 2008 Author Posted October 1, 2008 I live in California, so I don't need winter or A/S tires.
Underdog Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 Assuming you never see temps below 55-60, you could probably go with a dedicated summer tire then... although if you ever saw snow, your car would be immobilized. Not sure what a good budget summer performance tire would be... I run Toyo T1-R's as my summer tire, but those are ~$180 each. The Crimson Dynamo
JoeFromPA Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 I don't know if this would be a problem with lease hand-in, but I'd run general exclaim UHP in 225/45/17.....very cheap, and quite good. Joe
RangerMan Posted October 2, 2008 Posted October 2, 2008 I'm running Kumho Ecsta SPTs and they are pretty good, like $90/each. Not great but okay and pretty predictable. I'll probably go with Kumho Escta MXs next time I buy tires.
Gorge Jetson Posted October 10, 2008 Author Posted October 10, 2008 I can't believe that we're not talking about springs, shocks/struts, or coilovers.....we're talking about tires. Tires!!! Can we get back to the original question please?
dtmenace Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 tires are the "best single upgrade" to make your car handle better.
OhBe1 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Max out the front (negative) camber, set toe to 0 or slightly in (~0.05 deg or so) all around, & get tires.Be aware the Exclaim UHP's take a while to scrub off the release agent. 06LOB2.5i MT, JDMRSB, GYTTs, HPS, LGT Mufflers & Leather Wheel, SubiMomo Knob, Inalfa Moonroof, Clutch Switch Bypass, DeDRLd, DeChimed, & Straight Headrest.
RangerMan Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 George Jetson...good performance alignment and good tires is the single best upgrade to make your car handle better.
circaseabee1986 Posted October 29, 2008 Posted October 29, 2008 I have an '08 legacy 2.5i and i had just put on some 18x7.5 enkei rims with 225/40 tires. loooks great and i was planning to just buy lowering springs afterward, but what happened was, the setup actually closed the wheel gap in the rear and and slightly increased it in the front. (great if youre running the baja 1000,haha) but now im forced to buy coilovers to raise the rear a little and lower the front. A friend of mine had sort of the same problem with his sti and fixed it with coilovers. I guess that happens with subies, im not sure. in any case, im just letting you know about that if youre planning on getting different rims and tires.
circaseabee1986 Posted October 29, 2008 Posted October 29, 2008 "Are the Yokohamas crappy tires? I thought they were pretty good, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, if you can show me where people are saying they are awful. Even if I get cheap wheels (e.g.$125/each, which I prefer not to do) and just decent tires, I am still looking at $1200 to $1500 minimum for 18" wheels and tires. I can get front and rear Eibachs for ~$200. The only variable I am unclear on is installation cost." yes i'd say that the tires that come stock are on the crappy side. and since you live in california, no need to really buy an all season tire. these are the exact specs on the pakage i bought from discount tire(roughly $1500). 18x7.5 enkei flc01 rims with yokohama 225/40 tires with 300 tread wear rating. the stock tires have a 400 tw rating. these new tires grip amazingly id say. but again, the wheel gap in the front is pretty crazy. part of it might be from the sub i have in the trunk but still there is gonna be wheel gap. oh by the way, im not really good at forums so i apologize if i post too many times or somethings not right.
jsalicru Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 after installing a bunch of different suspensions on Legacies, the best suspension upgrade I've ever installed was a set of KW coilovers. The ride quality is fantastic on these, especially when compared to Megan, Tein, and GP Moto, and just about every spring swap there is. Also, a set of sways are great. The rear to get the tail to dance, the front to get a nice sharp turn-in. However, don't think of the silly 1mm upgrades. I'm talking getting the biggest bars available on the market. Tires.. Huge difference when switching tires. Slap the widest you can fit on the stock wheels if you simply feel like keeping those. You can make any change imaginable to the car.. the tires are whats gonna make it all stick. "some say, his arms are made of coiled adamantium fibers. And that he tops his cereal with nuts and bolts. All we know is, he's called the Jose."
aigochamaloh Posted November 4, 2008 Posted November 4, 2008 You need to get rid of the A82A's. One track day with them and I've already seen the limits of their grip. My next track day will be with the KDW2's I have now, or some Hoosier A6's. Tires ARE the single hand biggest improvement you can do.
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