Jump to content
LegacyGT.com

Cobb Accessport & ECUTek Info LOOK HERE FIRST!


SUBE555

Recommended Posts

Just a couple lame newbie questions. I still have not bought one of these (looking at March 06) but I do have some familiarity with Toyota turbo engines (3sgte) just not sure what the major differences in ecu control between the two manufacturers.

 

 

 

Does the stage one map change stock boost level at all? (not sure if boost is controller by Subaru computer or limited mechanically)

 

Second, if thise is just all just fuel and timing (or combination with added boost) is anyone running an AF guage and does it ever go lean?

 

Thanks

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Replies 478
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

...is anyone running an AF guage and does it ever go lean?

 

Many have logged Cobb's off-the-shelf maps, and by all accounts, they are conservative enough to be quite safe. :)

<-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

'16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many have logged Cobb's off-the-shelf maps, and by all accounts, they are conservative enough to be quite safe. :)

 

I've been wondering if it's a bad idea to run the 93 octane map on 93 octane fuel. I've never seen octane numbers higher than 93 in Texas, and I don't want to fool around with fuel additives. Do most people run a map rated for a lower octane fuel than what they put in the car?

 

When I had my Passat chipped, the tuner emphatically told me that it required 93 octane fuel ... which I fed it, and never it had any detonation or performance issues. But I have no idea what octane rating his maps were for...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been wondering if it's a bad idea to run the 93 octane map on 93 octane fuel. I've never seen octane numbers higher than 93 in Texas, and I don't want to fool around with fuel additives. Do most people run a map rated for a lower octane fuel than what they put in the car?

 

When I had my Passat chipped, the tuner emphatically told me that it required 93 octane fuel ... which I fed it, and never it had any detonation or performance issues. But I have no idea what octane rating his maps were for...

 

I run the Stage 1 93 octane base map, and have had no issues. 93 octane is common around here but I have run 92 octane from stations out of the area. In fact, there's 92 octane in the car now from a station in northern MI.

When I drove out to see my dad in Phoenix this past summer, I noticed that once got west of Amarillo, 90 was the highest octane at many stations. I flashed in the Stage 1 91 octane realtime map for the whole time that I was west of Amarillo, and had no issues. Felt a power loss, though. I loaded the Stage 1 93 octane realtime map once I got around Dallas on the way home.

Ron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Around here all the pumps have 87, 90, and 93. I know I've seen (95? 96?) at some Sunoco stations in the northeast. I figured 93 was obtainable just about anywhere. Obviously I don't take many extended road trips. I guess it would be good to keep the AP with the car in case there is a fuel availability 'emergency' ... It's good to know the 93 map works properly with 93 fuel, though.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I reset a CEL with the AP will the cars ECU also be reset. I guess what I am asking is; will the car have to relearn stuff for the next couple of days?

 

It doesn't seem like it. I had a CEL I had to clear (forgot to plug the MAF sensor in after changing the air filter!!), and things seemed to be the same after that. I have always felt a difference with a new map before/after about 100 miles of driving.

Ron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CELs and all this brings up something that's been bugging me. I did a bonehead thing and gassed up and forgot to secure my gas cap. I drove for at least a couple of hours continuously on the freeway and only noticed the cap being off when i got home and saw the flap still open. :icon_frow I thought I would have gotten a CEL with no cap on. I know that some cars even have a warning light if the cap is left off. Is this a case of the AP doing its thing and suppressing a CEL?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I run the Stage 1 93 octane base map, and have had no issues. 93 octane is common around here but I have run 92 octane from stations out of the area. In fact, there's 92 octane in the car now from a station in northern MI.

When I drove out to see my dad in Phoenix this past summer, I noticed that once got west of Amarillo, 90 was the highest octane at many stations. I flashed in the Stage 1 91 octane realtime map for the whole time that I was west of Amarillo, and had no issues. Felt a power loss, though. I loaded the Stage 1 93 octane realtime map once I got around Dallas on the way home.

 

 

I thought the ecu had a limit for number of flashes?.?.? How many times can you do this before you need a new ecu and at what cost?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought the ecu had a limit for number of flashes?.?.? How many times can you do this before you need a new ecu and at what cost?

 

This has been discussed in many threads on this forum (which a Search will produce), or you can read it directly from Cobb's website:

 

http://cobbtuning.com/legacy/accessport.html

 

It only applies to base map loads, and frankly it should not a factor for anyone. Even if you only do a couple of base map flashes a year (for updated base maps) smple math tells you that you have lots of time left.

 

If the LGT is like other cars, once a few get into boneyards a few years down the road, used ECUs shouldn't be more than a coupla hundred bucks at most.

Ron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all this is my first post on this site. I have recently sold my stage 2 manual -03 WRX with the Cobb Accessport stage 2 mapping. I have just passed the break in period on my 05 Legacy GT Auto. I know the stage 2 flash made a tremendous difference in my WRX's performance. I was just wondering if anyone could share their "seat of the pants" findings with an Accessport Stage 1 upgrade on a "stock" GT automatic. Information I have recently read indicates that instead of the 93 oct 290 HP and 305 torque for the standard, the auto only gets 273 HP and 300 torque. Pardon my ignorance but WHY? And is it worth the $645 for 23 HP and 50 Torque? Will it be that noticable:icon_ques

Thanks, I'd appreciate anyones input.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This had been mentioned in another thread, and since this is the main AP thread, with Cobb guys like Christian reading, I have one request for future AP upgrades:

 

 

Remove the speed limiter on the Cruise Control.

 

 

This has been an annoyance a few times over the last year, and I hit it again yesterday. If it can't be removed totally, getting it set anywhere aove the current 90 mph limit woud help a lot. Even my wife's Del Sol can be set over 90.

Ron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all this is my first post on this site. I have recently sold my stage 2 manual -03 WRX with the Cobb Accessport stage 2 mapping. I have just passed the break in period on my 05 Legacy GT Auto. I know the stage 2 flash made a tremendous difference in my WRX's performance. I was just wondering if anyone could share their "seat of the pants" findings with an Accessport Stage 1 upgrade on a "stock" GT automatic. Information I have recently read indicates that instead of the 93 oct 290 HP and 305 torque for the standard, the auto only gets 273 HP and 300 torque. Pardon my ignorance but WHY? And is it worth the $645 for 23 HP and 50 Torque? Will it be that noticable:icon_ques

Thanks, I'd appreciate anyones input.

 

Does anyone know if this is true for v1.15?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why have nobody spoke on Boost Numbers? This is most important in building HP on Turbo cars. So what is the stock Boost and Stage1 boost and stage 2 boost? My Passat was 7 lbs stock and 16 lbs chipped. This was a 50 HP gain. It's possible our cars are already pushing high boost levels to begin with so Timing, Fuel and Air are focus points for tuning along with a 2 to 5 lb boost increase. Am I warm???

I'm going for the Cobb deal seems like the best choice for what I'm going to do.

 

Scott

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i remember reading somewhere on the forum that with the Cobb Accessport, it is recommended that we stick with the stock airbox, or add a drop in filter by AVO, K&N.. etc.

 

I have done a search.. but there are just too many threads on accessports and ecu tuning. so.. hopefully i dont get the "search" from everyone.

 

my question would be..

 

i have a K&N Typhoon intake.. and IF what i read is true.. than Cobb only recommends stick with the stock airbox... or... im guessing with their intake products. I know we can get a custom tune and it may work... but..... yea...

 

so.. if this is true.. does this apply to other ECU tuning companies?? ECUtek.. Piggyback(?)....?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Custom tune for Intake only??? You would never notice even the slightest difference. The ECu would adjust and compensate for a minor part like that. Do you know what people charge for custom tuning?? You might see 1-2 HP from this. Not worth it. Temp from day to day would change your HP more than a custom tune for and intake. Let's think about this guys.

The reason they don't suggest them is because of hot air from under the hood. If the Typhoon is designed like the others I have used then it would be a plus for our car. Most K&N stuff is done real well and I have worked with them on many cars when at Eibach.

For tuning sake custom tune when you have done something major, I.E Turbo, Full Exhaust, COMBO Pulley,Intake,Exhaust installs things like that.

 

Does anybody know where I-Speed gets off charging $900.00 for their Reflash only with Tune? They claim a whooping 15 hp and 45 lbs. Tq.

AP is like 28 HP and 40 lbs Tq. for $645.00 and they developed it here in the USA and a US Spec car. Not from the stinking UK. I don't understand this>>>>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well..since i do have a boost gauge in my GT..so I can tell how much boost you have, with my stocker, before with castrol 5W30 for the break-in period..seen 0.85~1 bar (14.7psi=1bar)..re. saw 1 bar reading at shiftup, right after releasing the clutch n slam on the gas ..now with the elf 5W40 it's steadily with in 0.8~0.85bar

 

if I remember right...cobb's set the stage 1 map aimed the peak at around 16psi

 

alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A custom-map tune, via either ProTUNE/StreetTUNE or ECUTek, is highly recommended after the fitment of an aftermarket intake (any currently on-market, the K&N Typhoon is currently an "unknown," as it was introduced relatively recently), due to its potential to affect your AFR.

 

Read Cobb Tuning's AccessPORT FAQ or, better yet, contact them directly - you'll get this advise.

 

And yes, enough of us have had our LGTs on the dyno/logged to know that such intakes can indeed cause leaner AFRs as well as higher EGTs. There are several threads in the technical forums which documents this, for anyone who must have a visual reference. On my vehicle, even though I had not logged, this phenomenon (which was, for me, seen between 1800 to 2500 RPM) was observed during my tuning sessions, including at "baseline," and was something that my tuner specifically had to correct for.

 

In my view, a custom tune "for an intake" really isn't all that much about power (certainly, it won't hurt, and at least one LGT.com member cited gains of upwards of 15 wHP from an intake alone, with their specific-vehicle custom-tune - your gains may vary), but rather, to insure that you won't adversely impact your engine.

 

It's simply to cover for something that an "off-the-shelf" map cannot account for with specific-hardware -to- specific vehicle variances.

<-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

'16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Yes i did read up on the FAQ on Cobb about this. I guess I'm simply going off All the Turbo cars I have had. I thought the Passat was the worst with getting foul; ups when tweaking things. I would have never thought in a million years that a simple intake would trip this car up. I would think the car would have enough auto adjust in the timing and in the ecu to adapt toa a m inor change as this. If what your saying is true then a dirty filter could have the same effect.

Other thing to think about is K&N as done plenty of R&D work when producing this air filter. If there was a problem to the caliber your taking about they would not make a filter system for the car period. They would have major tech calls about this already and would have put this part on hold.

I will contact them now that I'm online again and get one from them and test it myself.

I'll let everybody know what I come up with

Scott

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
Yes i did read up on the FAQ on Cobb about this. I guess I'm simply going off All the Turbo cars I have had. I thought the Passat was the worst with getting foul; ups when tweaking things. I would have never thought in a million years that a simple intake would trip this car up. I would think the car would have enough auto adjust in the timing and in the ecu to adapt toa a m inor change as this. If what your saying is true then a dirty filter could have the same effect.

Other thing to think about is K&N as done plenty of R&D work when producing this air filter. If there was a problem to the caliber your taking about they would not make a filter system for the car period. They would have major tech calls about this already and would have put this part on hold.

I will contact them now that I'm online again and get one from them and test it myself.

I'll let everybody know what I come up with

Scott

99% of intakes WILL LEAN THE CAR OUT

and most will affect the timing a bit

 

 

Some of you guys are QUITE mislead about ahow the ECU "adjusts"

 

ill go into a bit about it:

  • Short Term Fuel Trim Description
    The short term fuel trim is a ECU erasable memory register. The neutral value for the short term fuel trim is 0%. Any deviation from 0% indicates the short term fuel trim is changing the injector pulse width. The amount of pulse width change depends on how far the short term fuel trim value is from 0%. The short term fuel trim is rich when the scan tool indicates (up to )-25%. The short term fuel trim is lean when the scan tool indicates 25%. The short term fuel trim changes the pulse width by varying the Closed Loop factor of the base pulse width equation. As the ECU monitors the oxygen sensors input, it is constantly varying the short term fuel trim value. The value is updated very quickly, therefore, the short term fuel trim only corrects for short term mixture trends. THe correction of long term mixture trends is the function of long term fuel trim.

  • Long Term Fuel Trim Description
    The long term fuel trim is a matrix of cells arranged by RPM and MAP. Each cell of the long term fuel trim is a register like the short term fuel trim. As the engine operating conditions change, the ECU will switch from cell to cell to determine what long term fuel trim factor to use in the base pulse width equation.
     
    While in any given cell, the ECU also monitors the short term fuel trim. If the short term fuel trim is far enough from 0%, the ECU will change the long term fuel trim value. Once the LTFT value is changed, it should force the STFT back toward 0%. If the mixture is still not correct (as judged by the HO2S), the STFT will continue to have a large deviation from the ideal 0%. In this case, the LTFT will continue to change until the STFT becomes balanced. Both the STFT and LTFT have limits which vary by calibration. If the mixture is off enough so that LTFT reaches the limit of its control and still cannot correct the condition, the STFT would also go to its limit of control in the same direction. If the mixture is still not corrected by both STFT and LTFT at their extreme values, a Fuel Trim Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) will likely result.

That being said, lets adapt to an intake and a subaru

 

so you put on an intake

and your STFT goes to lets say +7% (adding 7% to achieve 14.7:1)

after driving arounf the LTFT will ty to correct that and the TLFT will be +7%

so while cruising in Closed loop the 02 corrects for the intake.

 

THEN YOU FLOOR IT

LT AND ST trims go to 0% (thats what they do) and the car runs off the maps

Here lies the problem that 7% that was needed is now gone

and your afr will be Off due to the fact the intake causes a lean condition.

All of a sudden you are 7% off and AFR is important!

 

The other problem is

the loads can be affected by an intake. If the internal diameter and flow is not like stock.

Lets say the stock LGT intake is 72MM and your new intake is 75MM

Its just 3mm right? WELLLLLL

that will change the load a bit (not as much as say a big maf) but a bit

so now the timing is slightly advanced and the mixture is leaner.....

w00t you make more power (thats what happens when u do that )

BUt you lose that saftey

 

The subaru ECU is WAY smarter than you are, so it combats knock and impending knock by retarding the knock advance (knoch correction, Dynamic advance)

but that reduces power......

 

i could go on but i wont....

 

There is so much involved just slapping on parts whilly nilly can and WILL affect things, and the ecu may adjust , just not the way you thinkit will.

 

I have tuned intakes, lots, APS, Cobb, K&N , AEM, Custom, Blow thru MAF

and many more.

 

I can say that a cobb intake = GREAT GET ONE if you want an intake

I can say that a K&N intake = MEH , on an sti i did it made his life horrible, on an LGT it was ok, on another lgt it was a PITA.

 

Perrin = Confused me, i ordered one For an LGT (72MM inlet) they sent me a 68 MM wrx in a LGT box, I called explained and they claimed it was fine.........

no thanks. I put it on an Sti and got a differnt one for the LGT

 

APS= whacky , needs a tune

AEM = needs a tune

Perrin big maf = the bain of my existance, ask Christian or Scans about that

 

im rambling now

 

PM or IM if u have questions

TDC Tunings LGT Forum

Cobb, Perrin, APS, Invidia, Megan racing and MORE!!

Your #1 source For Subaru / Legacy GT performance parts!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use