Last Outback Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 Hey all, Nice, active forum here. *approaches sheepishly, hat-in-hand* If I've not posted this in the correct forum, I apologize, but I'm not familiar with the protocols here, yet. But my girlfriend's '97 Outback has struck again! The "free" tire rotation at the place we got the tires is no longer free--the *cough* "tech" broke a front wheel stud, upon trying to remove the nut. I've replaced studs on pickups before, and I did the complete brake job on this car last year, myself (Brembo rotors up front) but I cannot remember if there is an ABS ring on the front or not. I saw this excellent "how to" here, about an '04 WRX STi, and in it, the author states the ABS ring is on the rear. Do we have an ABS ring on the front as well? Here is the older thread: http://www.mfavp.com/wheelstud/index.htm The reason I ask is, the "tech" told me the following: Don't try this at home. Sometimes they come right out, but usually, you will break the cast ABS ring, by hitting it with the stud. That's why we often have to use a hub puller-and sometimes, that results in the bearing needing to be replaced--could be one hour, or THREE HOURS labor, plus bearing. Plus if we need to send the bearing out. Come back next week." So, my questions are: how similar is the '97 Outback to the '04 WRX STi, in terms of wheel stud replacement? How hard can I hammer on the hub, to drive the stud out, without bearing damage? Oh--this car has an appetite for wheel bearings--I think we've had one or both fronts done, and both rears (or one rear twice? I can't remember--I just remember it's about $400.+ each time). So, I'd really like to not line the pockets of this tire store, if I can help it. Can I just slip the caliper and rotor off, and pound this MF out? Does the ABS ring come off (if there is one up front) with simple allen bolts, as depicted in the thread I've listed? Thanks for all of your help.
Last Outback Posted April 27, 2008 Author Posted April 27, 2008 Hey all, Nice, active forum here. *approaches sheepishly, hat-in-hand* If I've not posted this in the correct forum, I apologize, but I'm not familiar with the protocols here, yet. But my girlfriend's '97 Outback has struck again! The "free" tire rotation at the place we got the tires is no longer free--the *cough* "tech" broke a front wheel stud, upon trying to remove the nut. I've replaced studs on pickups before, and I did the complete brake job on this car last year, myself (Brembo rotors up front) but I cannot remember if there is an ABS ring on the front or not. I saw this excellent "how to" here, about an '04 WRX STi, and in it, the author states the ABS ring is on the rear. Do we have an ABS ring on the front as well? Here is the older thread: http://www.mfavp.com/wheelstud/index.htm The reason I ask is, the "tech" told me the following: Quote: Don't try this at home. Sometimes they come right out, but usually, you will break the cast ABS ring, by hitting it with the stud. That's why we often have to use a hub puller-and sometimes, that results in the bearing needing to be replaced--could be one hour, or THREE HOURS labor, plus bearing. Plus if we need to send the bearing out. Come back next week." So, my questions are: how similar is the '97 Outback to the '04 WRX STi, in terms of wheel stud replacement? How hard can I hammer on the hub, to drive the stud out, without bearing damage? Oh--this car has an appetite for wheel bearings--I think we've had one or both fronts done, and both rears (or one rear twice? I can't remember--I just remember it's about $400.+ each time). So, I'd really like to not line the pockets of this tire store, if I can help it. Can I just slip the caliper and rotor off, and pound this MF out? Does the ABS ring come off (if there is one up front) with simple allen bolts, as depicted in the thread I've listed? Thanks for all of your help. Okay...and for my next trick--I will now answer my very own post! To the crowds of interest parties out there--all 6 of you who "viewed" this post, I'm happy to say, I figured it out. 1. There is an ABS ring on the front hub(s). 2. The ABS ring is cast iron, not aluminum, and you can get it out of the way far enough to punch out the old stud, and insert the new. 3. You do not have to remove the ABS sensor (Hall Effect pickup?) to do this. From the excellent pictorial I posted above, it seemed to me he was actually inserting the new stud through the hole he opened, when he removed the ABS sensor pickup (as opposed to the ABS ring, when gets pushed to the side). However, my ABS pickup's hold-down bolt was NOT wanting to budge. Having had the pleasure of drilling out the broken stud on the rear caliper support, during my last brake job, I was not about to risk another such occurrence, and here, I would have no way to get the part into a drill press, if I did break a bolt. So I looked at it and realized: a) The hole for the ABS sensor/pickup appears to be slightly smaller than the new stud's base, anyway, so it would have to be hogged out, with a Dremel, if the hole was being used to give the stud an easy path to insertion into the hub, and b) It is much easier to insert the new stud in the missing section of the backing plate, which has been cut away to allow the caliper to sit on the (lower) control arm. c) If the broken stud had been on a REAR wheel, complete with internal, min-drum brake system, inside the rear rotors, it may have been necessary to remove the ABS pickup, as did the gentleman in the thread I linked to, originally. He MAY have done that simply to avoid hitting the ABS pickup with the new stud, or to gain enough room to angle the ABS ring away from the vicinity of the stud, but again, with no e-brake drums in the way, such is not necessary to being with. 4. The offending garage's "torque stick"-equipped air wrench resulted in torques on the offending wheel as low as 35 lbs! Other wheels were about 50-60 ft. lbs, on average, as I broke them out, but some hit 85-90 ft. lbs.! Now, perhaps an engineer here could confirm this, but I suspect that the "break out torque" figures registered on a torque wrench are higher than the actual tightening torques achieved upon installation, due to "stiction" (for lack of a better term). HOWEVER, IF that's true, then how low did the tech actually have the lugs on the wheel with the broken bold, if I registered like 35 ft. lbs. while LOOSENING them! And my g.f. drove this car 100+ miles to work and back, on four lugs, some torqued as low as 35 ft. lbs.--and again, that's the torque value I found UPON LOOSENING THEM! (Knock on wood three times). 5. You don't have to unbolt the "caliper lock pins" and remove the caliper from the caliper support bracket. At least, on the '97 Outback, you don't--you just need to take out the two, big caliper support bracket bolts, and then you can remove the whole shebang (caliper and caliper bracket) unmolested, and wire the caliper, complete with brake shoes and "slider bolts" AND caliper support bracket, in unit, out of the way. Upon reinstall, the caliper support brackets need 51-65 ft. lbs. of torque, per my Hanes shop manual (which, incidentally, never tells you to remove the rotor with the 8mm/1.25 “push bolts” shown in the thread I linked to, above.) Hope this helps some other poor S.O.B. who owns one of these cars. Our first engine failed at 42,000, and our second at 112,000. As a lifelong car enthusiast, I routinely change my own oil and filter at 3,000 miles, and my g.f. is such a conservative driver, that THE ORIGINAL MICHELINS OUTLASTED TWO ENGINES! Literally, the car was sitting on it’s original Michelins, at 112,000, after the THIRD ENGINE had gone in—and the damn tires were STILL not illegally-worn yet! Auto-enthusiast-maintained, conservatively-driven, female owned, with an easier life AS AN AUTOMATIC-TRANSMISSIONED-car, and TWO engines died by 112,000 miles. As far as support from SOA, when we were 12,000 miles out of the 100,000 mile extended (FACTORY) warranty: only because, as an attorney, and a person who worked in the car biz, in Service, so that I know how to write a mean letter, did we get ANY money from SOA, toward the $4,200. for the second engine (The first was covered under the 60,000 mfr. warranty, and we bought the factory extended warranty, which went to 100,000 miles). They kicked in $1,500., finally, after the dealer said "No.," the Districk Service Mgr. said "No.," and I wrote to the CEO of either Subaru or the Fuji Heavy Industries--I forget which. Oh--and my letter was NINE PAGES LONG. On the positive side, the car drives great, if you like underpowered stuff, but the gas mileage of 24-26 mpg (if you drive like my g.f.) is disappointing, even for an AWD. This automatic (the g.f. insisted--I only own std. shifts, myself) has so much "hold back," upon deceleration, that it's no wonder the mpg sucks, for a 165 hp., 2.5 liter, 3,300 lb. car. This is, truly, our LAST OUTBACK. Our last Fuji Heavy Industries product, as well. Enjoy these cars. The g.f.'s next vehicle will have a “Toyota” emblem on the hood, just like the 1987 Camry she had that was still running, and burning no oil, at 227,000 miles, when we decided to junk it instead of get it’s ignition/drivability problem solved. It probably needed only a crank sensor or TPS or some such, and we drove that car HARD. As someone who has worked as a Service Writer, and in Customer Service, for years, for Saturn, Ford and Mercedes-Benz, (Not that all those, especially Benz and Saturn, in that order, are not RIDDLED with problems!) I can say that Subarus are grossly over-rated, as is noted here, repeatedly: Have a nice day. Sincerely, The Last Outback
1-3-2-4 Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 haha I saw this on a google search, I love my 97 Outback 247,400 miles and still going strong!
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