Three season tire for New England, Help

[Muleski]

I have a new to me 2005 LGT wagon, 5EAT. The car will be lightly modded {stage 1, JDM rear sway, etc.} I live outside of Boston, but travel very frequently throughout Northern New England. Bought the car in February, and immediately dumped the RE92's and mounted a set of Nokian RSI's on the stock rims. The car had great winter snow and ice performance, and was pretty good at winter temps on the dry. Made the right choice on a winter tire. Ideally, I'll run those from November through March.

 

Now I need a tire to use in non-winter. I have a set of 17X7 BBS RK rims. I'm hesitant to go with a high performance summer tire. I've done that with my other cars, a W8 Passat wagon and an Audi S6. I've run into problems when I've been north, well before any snow, but with temps in the 30's or lower. The summer tread compound hardens up, and the tires tend to be like rocks. I've used a Potenza RE750 on both of those cars with great results, other than those conditions. Those are both real heavy AWD wagons.

 

So what I'm looking for is an all-season tire that performs almost like a summer tire in the dry and wet, but would work when it gets colder. A plus would be if it would be usable {not good, but usable} in some slippery stuff. I'm not aware of any summer tires that would work when it gets cold, but I'd love to hear any ideas.

 

I'd like to be able to get about 40K of wear, which would be two seasons. I'm debating whether to buy 215's, or 225's. May depend on the tire. Price isn't the big factor, but if I can find a good tire for in the $125 range, that would be a plus.

 

I really appreciate any ideas, suggestions, and hearing of your experience. I've searched the forum a ton over the past month, and seem to be going in circles!

 

Thanks.

[rs6er]

Goodyear F1 M+S or Bridgestone RE960

[krzyss]

I have RKs too and the same "problem", not to mention I live in Worcester County.

I think that the solution is to buy real summer tires (like RE750 now RE760 or Kumho Escta SPT, like I plan) but use tires that can last from November till mid April. I think Nokian WR or WR G2 would be perfect for extended winter.

 

Just my opinion, I am not there yet. Money are still no co-operating.

 

Krzys

[G.T.Subie]

Conti Extreme Contacts

[krzyss]

Why would you buy winter focused all seasons for summer?

 

Krzys

[Underdog]

I'm running Toyo T1-R 225/40-18 as my 3-season in northern Massachusetts. When the average temperature drops below 50 degrees, I switch to my Wintersport M3's which pick up the slack in the cold, wet, dry or snowy. They give up a little on ice performance, but I think they are well paired with the summer tires. The Toyo's have very good grip (for stock power at least) and have excellent wet traction, but I would be nervous running them at temps much lower than 50 degrees. The result of being conservative is that I have a few warmer days where I'm riding on the Dunlops, which only begin to get slightly mushy above 50, and the only drawback is that they're on the stock wheels.

[Muleski]

I appreciate all of the responses. I really need an aggressive snow tire for the heavy snow months. The RSI's are perfect for that. And as been pointed out in this thread and others, snow tires are soft and wear down quickly when the temp rises. My experience with true high performance summer tires in colder temps, even with all wheel drive, manual transmissions, etc. has at times been downright scary. Not to mention in early season light snow, and glazed roads, or in late winter slush and ice.

 

So, I've been trying to narrow things down and find the elusive "all season" high performance tire that might give me 85% of the performance of a summer tire, and would also give me the chance to get the RSI's off the car in months when the temps vary from warm to cold, but when we might have some snow. Not a foot of snow, more like a half an inch.

 

The tires that keep being mentioned are:

 

BF Goodrich G Force SS A/S

Conti ExtremeContacts

Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S

Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S

Potenza RE960 A/S PP

 

Probably conicidental, but the same tires that Tire Rack's site pulls up on a search.

 

I have been asking around to try to find any summer tires that might perform reasonably in the cold, and the descriptor that keeps coming up is "sketchy",so I think that I'll be headed to an all season tire.

 

Also any input about a 225 vs 215 in these tires would be great.

 

If anybody else is running those tires in the summer, and in the colder months, I would really appreciate any insight. Thanks again., very much. There's a wealth of knowledge on this forum.

[f1anatic]

225-45-R17 tires here on stock rims. Great combination, 0 issues, even tire wear on all 4s. Kumho Ecsta ASX

[Muleski]

The only downside with the ASX's that I'm hearing about, or reading about, is the issue of tread wear. Like I said, I'd like to get two non-winter seasons out of a tire. For me that's about 20K a year, 40K total. How are yours wearing?

 

I do about 2/3's highway driving, with the other 1/3 being pretty spirited winding rural roads. I'm also good about checking tire pressure, etc. If I could get the two seasons, I'd consider an ASX. I recall seeing reviews and comments that the guarantee was 30K, and the real life span{with decent performance} was closer to 20-25K miles. Hopefully, you're doing better. I know they're a great deal, and value, but I don't want to be dealing with a new set of tires every year.

 

Thanks for any advice. Much appreciated.

[rhe]

We just installed Falken 912's on my son's 98 Forester. They are all season performance touring tires. He lives in Ottawa, Ontario. Here is a link to info about them:

 

http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tiremodel=Ziex+ZE-912&tirebrand=Falken

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Conti Extreme Contacts

[Guest heightsgtltd]

^^ running all seasons, and they have been rock solid summer through winter

[BigBad]

+1 on the conti extremes... I've had them for sometime now, great all season tire in snow, rain and dry traction.

[DrCloud]

All-season tires come in a range of abilities -- and only you can choose whether you want them tilted toward good weather (summer conditions) or bad.

 

On the bad side, I had a great experience running Nokian WRs on a Subaru in winter conditions -- and they're quite good on dry pavement and gravel as well. Because you have Nokian winter tires, you're familiar with their quality. Tread-wear, though, may be an issue, I don't know. HPH

[Muleski]

Thanks.

 

You're absolutely right, Dr. Cloud. What I'm looking for is an all season tire that will be close to a high performance summer tire in our New England weather, and will be serviceable when it gets cold {mid 40's and less}on occasion in the later fall. If I get caught in an early season snow, having a tire that's just "OK" will work. I want than "summery" high performance all season.

 

I made the decision to go with the RSI's, as I can't get by in the heart of the winter with an all season. I was close to a Nokian WR, on this car and on my daughter's Outback VDC, but chose to go with dedicated snows. I run studded snows on our S6, and Blizzak's on our Landcruiser. We made the decision a long time ago that we need real snows. But, I'm back and forth between Boston and the north country. If I were living the 300 miles further north all of the time, where the climate is different, I'd run the snows from mid October through the end of April. I'm trying to cover all of the bases, which isn't easy, and there won't be a perfect solution. I can't do three sets of rims and tires.

 

So now, what I'm trying to gather is info on those high performance all season's that lean towards being a summer tire, with very good summer performance, decent cold weather handling, and if we get a late October or early November storm, some snow capability. Just "some." I don't need the snow capability that those who are running them year round may. Of course if any of you feel that these are great summer performers, and really handle snow, that would be a big plus. I might leave Boston when it's 60, and drive to upstate NY to see our son, where it might be 25.

 

So is a RE960 on the summer edge of things, vs a Pzeronero? How about the Conti's and F1's? Anybody out there who's running dedicated snows in the winter and A/S in the late spring/summer/fall, rather than summer tires?

 

I really apppreciate the information, so far. Any specific experiences and details are great. I appreciate people weighing in with their favorites, but helping understand why would be a huge help to me. Sorry for all of the words. I just want to get this right.

 

Thanks again.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

Honestly I think you are putting WAY too much thought into this

 

There is no "summery high performance A/S"

 

Peoplare are telling you why they like the A/S tires that they do. The best ones are a really good compromise, but none are summer tires.

 

The contis are amazing in wet, ice, snow, and very very good in summer/dry.

[Muleski]

Thanks for the reality check. I'm sure that you're right. I've bought six sets of tires in the last year, with a grand total of about a half hour of thought, so maybe I'm making up for it.

 

Here's where the "summer HP A/S" comment stems from. When you dig into this, it amazes me how many people run A/S tires year-round on high performance AWD cars, while living in warm weather climates. By that I mean LGT's, S4's, STI's, Evo's, in Florida, So.Cal, Arizona, etc. Pzeronero's are a popular tire, and they're branded as a "M+S" tire. So for that crowd, I have to assume that the dry performance is there, as they could easily run summer tires year-round.

 

There are also a lot of comments in threads, and reviews where people rave about how great their A/S tires perform in snow, yet how the dry grip is "OK", and they don't like them in rain! Clearly, I don't need that type of tire. And the number of comments that absolutely conflict blows me away. Same car, same tire, same description of how they drive, but one loves them , the other would never buy again.

 

Also gets compounded by the comments like "I've had the tire for 80 miles....and it's the best..." You all get it. How can you review a tire before the mold release agent has even worn off?

 

I guess that I may just make a call based on what my gut tells me, and play rock scissors, paper between the Pirelli's, the Conti's, the Potenza's....and maybe the Goodyears....or the Falkens....

 

Like the IBM commercial says "stop talking, start doing!"

 

Sorry if I'm being a pain in the ass. Great site, and great forum. I've searched for a ton of helpful info on other topics, and hope to be moving from asking the nagging questions to contributing soon!

 

Thanks for the help.

[Guest heightsgtltd]

No worries, I just mean that there is always going to be a compromise.

 

For what it's worth, many people have been less than thrilled with the Pzeronero A/S in snow but happy otherwise so that may be a possibility for you.

 

The Contis offer great value for the price, are drop dead awsome in snow and rain, and as I said are really good in dry. I have about 7K miles on mine I think.

 

If they were available when I bought my Contis, I would have cross shopped the RE960s, and maybe the goodyears as well.

 

Another albeit expensive option but one that I have heard nothing but great things about are the Michelin pilot exalto A/S high performance tires.

[krzyss]

The only bad news about Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S and Pilot Sport A/S is their price. And other, cheaper tires, might provide similar performance (Goodyear F1 A/S and Bridgestone RE960).

 

Krzys

 

PS RE960 still has $75.00 promotion.

[racerbynight573]

def Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S....just put a set on in jan worked well through winter and handle great in wet and dry

[rjundi]

Goodyear F1 M+S or Bridgestone RE960

 

Concur on these. Both will get you through a winter storm but don't give up dry/wet for winter traction like Conti Extreme Contact(winter biased all-season).

 

I use Nokian WR G2's as my sole tire. They give up dry performance and generate a bit more roared albiet muted noise than I'd like. Great winter/wet tire though and driving normally around but not a dry performance tire.

[BigBad]

 

There are also a lot of comments in threads, and reviews where people rave about how great their A/S tires perform in snow, yet how the dry grip is "OK", and they don't like them in rain! Clearly, I don't need that type of tire. And the number of comments that absolutely conflict blows me away. Same car, same tire, same description of how they drive, but one loves them , the other would never buy again.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Conflicting comments abound here especially with tires. If you read the reviews on tirerack about different owners experiences they vary all over the map. It can be difficult to say the least. Good luck with your selection.

[Garandman]

I appreciate all of the responses. I really need an aggressive snow tire for the heavy snow months. The RSI's are perfect for that. //

You pay a big performance price for most A/S tires. Just go to an autocross - you can hear from the screeching which cars are running on A/S's.

 

Think big. You need three sets of tires. Summer tires for tearing around, rain, and the occasional autocross, A/S's for Spring and Fall when the temperature is still pretty low and there's a chance of heavy rain, ice and snow, and deep, dark winter, when it's rarely above freezing. For example:

• Goodyear F1 GS D3 or the newer model for Summer (they're fantastic in dry and rain, have a 280 wear rating, and completely hopeless in ice and snow). They are great all-around summer tires.
  
• Nokian WR's or the newer model for the 'tween seasons: Severe duty snow rated A/S.
  
• Nokian RSI when you absolutely, positively have to drive in snow.

That said, I didn't even use the RSI's last winter and will probably sell them. The WR's are good enough in snow on a Subaru, and much better handling in rain. Dedicated snows don't usually hydroplane easily but their cornering grip on wet roads sucks, at least the Michelin X-Ice and RSI's we have.

 

A trip I took in late February is an example. Drove from Boston to Bucksport, Me on dry roads. Next morning there was 10" of snow on the ground and I was headed for Deer Isle on marginally plowed state and local roads. Then driving back, it changed to a deluge of rain for four hours, then froze that night. The WR was perfect for that kind of trip. One of our friends is a traveling sales manager covering from MA to Quebec with an OBW and she says that WR's have changed her life. Friends with an OBW living near Sugarloaf are happy with them as well.

 

We have five company cars and drive them all over New England, from Bridgeport CT to North Hero VT to Van Buren, ME (NE of Quebec City). We used to equip them with RSI's or Michelin X-Ice in Winter, and A/S's the other half of year. But we put WR's on one of the Accord V6's winter before last (the other has RSI's) and they worked well enough that for all but the Subaru we'll probably go to the WR's year-round and get rid of the 2nd set of rims. Between the company cars and friends we have WR's on my OBW 3.0, a Legacy GT, two Outback 2.5's, a 3.0 SUS, a Pacifica, an Accord V6, and a Mazda MPV minivan. All purchased at Johns & Sons in Manchester, NH, who has the best Nokian prices around.

 

So, if you are only willing to get two sets, I'd vote for the GS D3's and WR's. If you feel you absolutely, positively must have the RSI's, you're going to give up the performance of a summer tire - in which case why drive a car with low-aspect tires in the first place?

 

F1 GS D3 vs RE92A, RSI vs. WR

[Vimy101]

^ The solution I arrived at was to use the Contis for the winter and shoulder seasons and the OEM summer 050s for the remainder.

 

The Contis are very good in the snow, excellent in the wet and can easily take some high temps without getting cooked and losing their pliability which is key for cold weather operation. It's a compromise of course because the WRs will outperform the CEs in really heavy snow but the CEs will handle dry conditions better with rain probably being equal. For the urban winter conditions I see here in Chicagoland, my solution has worked very well so far. It's going to be a fairly warm day here today and the CEs will perform well whereas a more snow oriented tire like the WR would probably suffer some degradation.

 

The 050s go on tomorrow.

[Muleski]

Thanks, once again, for all of the replies. VVG, based on some of your earlier posts and my searching, I purchased the RSI's. I was able to get a Maine dealer to match John's price, which was more convenient for me at the time. So thanks for that help.

 

You mentioned Sugarloaf. I actually have a home there, my kids have gone to high school there, and we live at about 3000 feet on a dirt road. My wife has spent the winter there, and I'm back and forth between there and Boston constantly. In my opinion, the RSI's are what I need in the winter. I travel very frequently between Maine and Vermont, through Quebec to Upstate NY, etc. And when I go, I have to go. So as mentioned, the RSI's work for me on the LGT. We came close to putting WR's on my daughter's H6 Outback, went with Hankook IPikes instead. By the way, they are decent snow tires, but no Nokian. That car spends all winter up North. next time around we may go with the new version of the WR.

 

The compromise that I'm going to need to make is with my all-season tire, and it's going to be that I need one with more of a summer tire bias or orientation, than a winter one. Much as the three tire plan would work, I'm not going to deal with three sets of wheels and tires. Just too much. I won't be autocrossing, or tracking this car.

 

I think that I'm narrowing this down to the GY F1's and the RE960's. I'm going to make some calls tomorrow to check into availabilty and see what I can do price- wise. I don't think that I can go wrong with either. If I wanted more winter performance, I'd be inclined to look at the Conti's. I also think that for a number of people in my situation, the WR, and a dedicated summer tire would work. I just find myself on the road in the worst of winter driving, on some ugly roads. And I love those RSI's.

 

Thanks again.