Stage I / Stage II reliability?

[z28dreams]

So, after reading these forums and test-driving a LGT, I'm definitely set on the car.

 

Even stock, it was quite quick.

 

I'm very interested in upgrading to at least Stage I (maybe an open-source fuel map), and possibly stage II.

 

A few questions:

 

1. How is reliability with the increased power? While I enjoy good performance, I definitely don't want to have to worry about things blowing up. Are there extra precautions I can take to prevent problems?

 

 

2. Is stage II much quicker than stage I? I don't particularly like the sound of catback exhausts on small-displacement engines. If anyone can recommend a smooth-flowing, fairly quiet (close to stock) catback, that would be helpful.

 

3. Any reason I should avoid the first year (2005)? Obviously this is the lowest priced, but I'm wondering if any major bugs were worked out in 06...

 

Thanks!

[Neurodancer]

Check out the various sub-forums on this site, there is a wealth of information on LGT.com and many of your questions have been asked before.

 

In particular, you might want to spend some time looking at the Turbo Powertrain forum.

 

I cannot speak to 05 related questions, but I can say that you don't have to add a cat-back to go to Stage2. All that is necessary is a good downpipe (high-flow cat or catless). That is the path that I followed and the car sounds mostly stock (enhances the "sleeper" quotient!).

 

I'd urge you to avoid open-source unless you have a good understanding / background in engine management. The AP really isn't that expensive and it has a lot of additional value than just a remap. "Valet-mode" is one example and I particularly like the ability to immobilize the car when I park it for extended periods (I travel to Europe occasionally and don't like leaving the car open to theft at an airport parking lot).

 

Just my $0.02...

[05GT Guru]

I have a 05 Auto, with a gutted cat on the DP and a open source flash, i love it the car has only had these mods for about 2k miles. No problems yet lol, i paid 100 dollars for stage 2. You do need to know or know someone who does know how to create a map, you could potentialy do damage to your engine if you dont know what your doin. And the difference between stage 1 and 2 is huge

[itsme]

Only problems that people with stage 2 over stage 1 is the tmic tanks some time have the tabs separate. Besides that nothing. No difference between the '05 and '06 besides you can get a non limited GT in '05. Stock LGT's dyno at @200hp ,stage 1 @230hp, stage 2 @ 260hp at the wheel. Atleast for me every stage I went up so did my MPG

[z28dreams]

Thanks for the input so far everyone.

 

With the upgrades, I have 2 main priorities in mind:

 

1. Reliability - it should be REALLY close to stock. The stock vehicle is quite quick, and I don't want to risk blowing up my engine/turbo just to gain 1/3 of a second in my 0-60

 

2. That said, I'd like my 0-60 time to be under 6 seconds with the 5EAT. Is this possible with stage I, and how much more stress is on the car?

 

3. How much more stress is put on the car @ stage II vs. stage I?

 

4. The car must pass emissions, so a catless setup is completely out of the question. It should also be quiet - close to stock noise levels. Someone mentioned that a downpipe alone might be able to do this without the need for a cat-back exhaust.

 

What do you think?

[05GT Guru]

Well with stage 2, all you need is a downpipe and the tune. You dont need catback to be stage 2, if you need to pass emissons then you will need to spend more money to get a catted aftermarket down pipe. Also the auot tranny isnt made for launching, some brake soon some last for a while. Some guys use a rule of thumb every second on the foot brake is about 100 degrees or so you are raising the temp of the fluid in the tranny.

[SubLGTaru]

Go stage 1 for now if you don't have the money for a downpipe. Once you've got enough saved for a downpipe, it is easy to get a protuned map for stage 2.

[cmc032]

just a downpipe won't change the sound of your car that much at all. If you are going to go stage I, I would get it protuned to get a custom map done for you. The maps cobb gives you are just suggestions. With a protune there is no reason why stage I won't get you to 60 in well under 5. Very reliable

 

Any after market exhaust is going to be louder than the stock. I'm not positive though.

 

good luck!

[z28dreams]

just a downpipe won't change the sound of your car that much at all. If you are going to go stage I, I would get it protuned to get a custom map done for you. The maps cobb gives you are just suggestions. With a protune there is no reason why stage I won't get you to 60 in well under 5. Very reliable

 

Any after market exhaust is going to be louder than the stock. I'm not positive though.

 

good luck!

 

0-60 well under 5... or well under 6? lol....

[cmc032]

also ...

 

before you go stage II and even stage I you should make sure you can stop before you can go....

 

New sway bars, brakes, and tires are a necessity - especially if you plan on not always driving in a straight line

[cmc032]

hahaha also ...

 

well under 6 - my bad

 

i wish it was well under 5!

[SubLGTaru]

you can go stage 1 without upgrading your brakes...maybe throw some HAWK ceramic pads on and you'll be fine. No need to get a big brake kit, especially if you don't track your car.

[Neurodancer]

Thanks for the input so far everyone.

 

With the upgrades, I have 2 main priorities in mind:

 

1. Reliability - it should be REALLY close to stock. The stock vehicle is quite quick, and I don't want to risk blowing up my engine/turbo just to gain 1/3 of a second in my 0-60

Cobb Accessport should get you under 6 seconds with a 93 octane map. If you buy from some tuners, you can get additional maps included. For Example, here is TDC's quote on a AP v2.0 (for an 05 LGT, if you opt for a newer model you need a different unit). Before ordering, call them and they will preload it with a custom map based upon your mods (Stage 1, Stage 2, etc...). You will tell them what you did for intake, dp, ic, etc...

 

2. That said, I'd like my 0-60 time to be under 6 seconds with the 5EAT. Is this possible with stage I, and how much more stress is on the car?

An AP w/ Stage 1 should get you under 6 without a struggle. Keep in mind the caution from the other reply about launching and AT.

 

3. How much more stress is put on the car @ stage II vs. stage I?

I can't help you there other than seconding a response you got earlier. Some people have had problems with the tabs on a stock intercooler when going to Stage 2. That is one of the reasons I upgraded my TMIC when I added my DP (plus the benefits in the Summer months).

 

4. The car must pass emissions, so a catless setup is completely out of the question. It should also be quiet - close to stock noise levels. Someone mentioned that a downpipe alone might be able to do this without the need for a cat-back exhaust.

Technically, I think any car will fail a strict emissions test as soon as you remove a cat.

 

The Stock DP has 2 cats in it. When you upgrade to aftermarket, you are going either catless (some vendors call these pipes "racing downpipes") or catted (called "street downpipes"). The catted dps only have 1 high-flow cat. When you follow this path, the car would likely pass a visual inspection (as long as you have engine management to remove the CEL), but would probably fail a sniffer inspection. Different states do it differently...

 

As I noted in my earlier response (this thread or your other one, I can't remember), I have just a DP and the car basically sounds stock (except when I gun it). If you add just a DP, you should not raise any flags on inspection from someone just listening to it idle.

 

What do you think?

 

While drafting this response I thought of one other thing. Since you are looking at an 05 LGT, the first mod you should make from a power standpoint is replacing the stock up-pipe. The 05s have a catted up-pipe and I've read that some people have had problems where the cat will disintegrate and that means your turbo gets filled with parts that aren't meant to be there! Not a good situation. I think I saw someone note this on your other thread, and it is an important point to keep in mind. I'd recommend you make this change at the same time you go to Stage1.

 

Good Luck!

[cmc032]

will putting in an up-pipe make you definitely fail an emissions test?

 

i'm pretty sure the cobb one will

[05GT Guru]

Yes if you gut a cat you will fail a test

[MilesA]

Yes if you gut a cat you will fail a test

Are you sure? I thought the cat on the uppipe was a "light-off" cat. In other words, it's there to heat up quickly so it can reduce emissions just for the period when the engine is started up cold. That would mean as long as the engine was hot when you went in for the test, you would still pass. You might be above the level you had with the pre-cat, but you would still be within legal limits once the car was warmed-up.

[z28dreams]

Yes if you gut a cat you will fail a test

 

I don't understand why anyone what take a daily driver and have it so it fails emissions?

 

What do you guys do every year when you have to take it in? Swap out the exhaust and then put it back on after? That just seems stupid to me...

[Ryandigi]

I don't understand why anyone what take a daily driver and have it so it fails emissions?

 

What do you guys do every year when you have to take it in? Swap out the exhaust and then put it back on after? That just seems stupid to me...

nope, have a buddy at a shop do it, pass $20, or move to a more lenient non-sniffer state

[Zed 2.0]

The catted dps only have 1 high-flow cat. When you follow this path, the car would likely pass a visual inspection (as long as you have engine management to remove the CEL), but would probably fail a sniffer inspection. Different states do it differently...

 

I haven't heard of anybody with a catted DP failing an emissions test in either CO or IL. Maybe in a really restrictive state like CA.

[PhilT]

New sway bars, brakes, and tires are a necessity - especially if you plan on not always driving in a straight line

 

 

 

Don't go spreading mis information please.

[Zed 2.0]

 

Don't go spreading mis information please.

 

But the stock brakes just can't contain all the new horsepowers!

[spacejunkiehsv]

So, after reading these forums and test-driving a LGT, I'm definitely set on the car.

 

Even stock, it was quite quick.

 

I'm very interested in upgrading to at least Stage I (maybe an open-source fuel map), and possibly stage II.

 

A few questions:

 

1. How is reliability with the increased power? While I enjoy good performance, I definitely don't want to have to worry about things blowing up. Are there extra precautions I can take to prevent problems?

 

 

2. Is stage II much quicker than stage I? I don't particularly like the sound of catback exhausts on small-displacement engines. If anyone can recommend a smooth-flowing, fairly quiet (close to stock) catback, that would be helpful.

 

3. Any reason I should avoid the first year (2005)? Obviously this is the lowest priced, but I'm wondering if any major bugs were worked out in 06...

 

Thanks!

I have been at stage 2 on my 05 5EAT for about 20,000 miles or more with no engine problems. I don't drag race or anything like that.

 

My gutted stock DP (as loud as any catted one, surely) isn't much louder than stock. I can't tell a difference actually, but I'm sure it is a little louder. It wouldn't make sense to be quieter. Regardless, nobody on the street will ever know you have a high-flow catted DP. It will still be a very quiet car. I hate the way all the Honda's with fart-cans sound.

 

I don't know if the 06's were plagued by the "headlight bulb" problem. I have 37,000 miles on my LGT and have replaced 3 headlight low beam bulbs. Even if it was only an 05 problem. I don't think that would stop me from buying the right 05. The bulbs are only $20-$25 to replace anyway. It isn't related to a specified brand of bulb either.

 

The only serious problem I had was a bad wheel bearing. It was replaced under warranty at about 19,000 miles or so. They replaced the one I complained about, and another that wasn't making any noises yet.

[spacejunkiehsv]

also ...

 

before you go stage II and even stage I you should make sure you can stop before you can go....

 

New sway bars, brakes, and tires are a necessity - especially if you plan on not always driving in a straight line

I disagree with the sway bars comment. I like the way my car rides with the stock suspension.

 

I halfway agree with the tires comment. The stock tires do suck, but they are good enough if: it doesn't snow where you live (snow comment is not from first hand experience), doesn't rain every other day where you live, and you don't track, autocross, or do lots of canyon carving. I am about to get new tires, and I WILL NOT buy the stock tires. There are much better tires out there that are less expensive. If you have the money floating around, go ahead and get new tires. You can sell your used ones on the forum here.

 

Edit: I did get new Hawk HPS front brake pads. They work better for my occasional outbursts.

[05GT Guru]

Well in Wisconsin, the far norht countys have such a low population they dont need to have there cars tested. My grandparents live in Forest county which is one of these non testing counties, so all my cars have been registered up there. I had a 79 malibu with a built 355, the exhaust was headers to side pipes, thats it lol. It wouldnt have passed, also my supra doesnt have a cat so it too is registered up north

[psucaptainkickass]

The HP of the car has no bearing on whether you should get new brakes. Whether the car has 250 HP or 500 HP it still weighs the same so stopping power is the same from any speed.

You only need new brakes if you are interested in Stopping in a shorter distance. Off a track, in the real world this sure is a safety concern, but I don't drive like an idiot and tend to keep plenty of space around myself...but I can see the advantage of being able to stop in a shorter distance in an emergency.

On a track, of course you would want to upgrade the brakes so you can carry more speed into a turn and brake later.

These two applications however, are independent of the amount of power your car makes from a stage perspective.