SPEC Stage 2 Clutch Pack and LWFW Review

[stairway27]

Thanks for this thread, folks. qikslvr, somebody pointed me to your wisdom when I recently posted a couple of times about a) TOB noise, and b) noise when coasting in gear. I got TOB chirping right after I had the ACT clutch and "streetlight" flywheel installed, and it got steadily worse. Not yet understanding "chatter" and wondering if something had come loose after a few weeks, I panicked and had them open it all back up measure, and put in a new TOB. ACT said everything was in spec, and I've learned how to coexist with it... mostly. The "chatter" from stop gradually got better, and I've learned how to drive it... but my wife hates it when she's driving it and my seven year old yells out, "Mommy!! You killed it AGAIN!!!" (She's a speedracer... had her Mustang up to 135 racing another 'stang on I-90 in Montana when we lived there... Ooops, off topic.)

 

Anyway, I feel a lot better about the TOB issue. I'll see if my shop guys can fabricate something like that. My TOB chirp is getting louder and more frequent. Should I have a new one installed?

 

qik, you're the only other person I've found so far with the noise/vibration. It started right after the ACT clutch/flywheel install as a buzz lasting about 0.25 to 0.5 second when I'd release the throttle. It's now a harsh fluttering vibration/superbuzz whenever I'm coasting in gear. It frightens me more than a little. I also noticed on my way home from the airport Friday night that I get a slight buzz/vibration at 69 MPH in 5th with cruise control set. +/- 1 MPH and it goes away, but it's the same kind of noise. The shop owner who supervises the work on my car has a theory that it's the "single mass" flywheel allowing something to vibrate in the transmission that was masked my the stock dual mass flywheel. If you can solve this for me, I will personally drive down to Omaha and buy you all the beer you can drink in one night, maybe throw in a good bottle of single-malt scotch. Hell, I'll drive to Omaha and pay you to do the work. It's on my way to work in Boulder...

Edited September 23, 2008 by stairway27

[Max Capacity]

69mph in cruise control, I have a spec 2+ with the LWFW and spend most of my time in cruise around that speed, I have no noise and vibrations at all.

 

25,000 miles on set up.

 

A little chatter in traffic at times, but it's mainly because I have to feather the clutch.

 

The noise at low rpm's in 4th gear and the like so because ofthe LWFW, it doesn't have enough mass to carry the car...Just down shift and be done with it. Nobody said there wasn't trade off. I would much rather have a stout clutch, over that weak thing Subaru calls a clutch.

[qikslvr]

Stairway27:

 

Most of what you are hearing is well, "normal" for these setups. A little clicking off the line is a given and the TOB squeal in neutral with the clutch out can be fixed with the return spring mod or some pedal adjustment. There is no physical damage that is creating the gearbox noise; it's always been there, but now it's being broadcast into the cabin by the shifter since the LWFW won't absorb it. Adding some STI Motor, Pitch Stop and Tranny mounts makes mine even louder, so I just install them on track days.

I've found that the best way to keep the gear noise down is to never let my foot completely off the gas pedal. Even when coasting, it makes a big difference if you just lightly rest your foot on the gas pedal. My rolling gear noise is most noticable above 2K RPMs and below 4K RPMs in pretty much every gear. It's bad enough that I've thought about getting an OE flywheel put back in too.

[Gator GT]

I don't have a non-OEM clutch or LWFW, but I have upgraded the tranny crossmember bushings to urethane, the 6MT mount is hardened, Kartboy front and rear shift bushings, TiC linkage and pivot bushing upgrades, Kartboy 6MT (spec-B) SST and replaced the OEM pitch rod with a Function 7 aluminum/graphite bushing piece....my cabin is a flurry of noises from the tranny.

 

It was freaking scary when I had an Exedy stage 2 cerametallic clutch installed in terms of noise! The chatter, and whine from decceleration was very overwhelming...sounded like the tranny was breaking by just letting off the gas!

 

I replaced it with an OEM STI piece and am very happy with it. Had I a little more forethought, I would have gone Exedy Stage 1 organic and probably would have been just as happy, but with a stout clutch.

 

OT: clutch is up for grabs!

 

Point: In the never ending search for a more direct and positive shifting experience, upgrading bits and pieces will really connect you with what's going on in the gearbox by feel AND sound.

 

 

EDIT: I still hear the deccel gear noise (like bad meshing) in 2nd and 3rd between 2k & 4k RPMs. Part of me wants it checked out by a tech....part of me hears things similar to this post and say it is because of all the upgrades I've done.

Edited September 24, 2008 by Gator GT

[stairway27]

qikslvr:

 

User ABPillinois had problems almost exactly like my decel fluttering noise. Under warranty, he had a bunch of bearings replaced, I'm assuming in the transmission. This solved his problem. See this post:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1311867&highlight=S32145AA030#post1311867

 

I am SORELY tempted to make an appointment at a dealership in the near future and bring this information to them. I'm frightened of how much this might cost, though. If it is bad or out-of-spec bearing(s), wouldn't it be better to take care of it now, rather than having it shred and go "boom"?

 

Would any good transmission shop be able to tear into the tranny & differentials to do this kind of work?

Edited September 24, 2008 by stairway27

[vaccaroja]

this is all great info.. i just destroyed my stage 3 spec and cracked my stock fly wheel.. turns out ive been doing some pretty hard launches... also turns out i wore a grove in the transmition with the clutch fork, i bent it pretty bad which kept a lot of pressure on my flywheel, from what i am told thats what killed everything meaning the clutch and the flywheel, the mechanics had trouble pulling the clutch fork back up into place, but in the end where able to do so... do they make an aftermarket clutch fork maybe out of something stronger... im thinking maybe my spec stage 3 was to aggressive and the stage 2 should be better. any thoughts?

[qikslvr]

You may be able to use an STI 5MT clutch fork and return spring setup...

 

Just an update. I'm still rolling fine on my Spec Stg2 clutch and LWFW after almost 18 months and 20K miles. Has never slipped and pedal still feels stock. I get some whining in the morning when it's cold out, but it goes away after the car warms up. Otherwise it's perfect for a Stg2 setup. We'll see shortly how it handles a 20g.

[StoplightAssassin]

We'll see shortly how it handles a 20g.

 

Cool...I'm getting the power mod bug again.

[kevkel33leg05]

I have the spec stage 2+ clutch with the LWF as well and love the set up. I've had it for about 16 months and have over 18K on it. Blew my 2nd gear clutch is fine though:)

[sportwagon]

....

 

subscribe... in case I get this squeeling with my new clutch

[vaccaroja]

that squeeling noise might be your flywheel... i had the same issue right before my clutch crapped the bed... it turns out my clutch fork was bent, putting preasure on the flywheel even when it was not engaged, wearing a nice grove in the back of my tranny.

[sportwagon]

I haven't noticed any squeeling... But, I have ~100 miles on the new ACT clutch/pressure plate and WRX flywheel combo, so if I do run into any noises during the break-in, I'll be able to get on it ASAP...

 

well... Actually, I did hear a squeeking noise once or twice since I've got my car back from the shop, but I'm pretty its sure one of my belts... It was the signature belt noise when cold or wet and only when first starting off! I haven't heard it in a few days.

 

I'm pretty sure the noises described in this thread are a more constant and continuous squeeking, correct?

 

Thanks!

[Max Capacity]

Mine squeel's I guess most of the time. Been doing it for a long time.

 

Clutch still grabs fine.

[rony]

Mine squealed.... Turned out root cause was a bad master cylinder for the clutch.

 

This caused the clutch to not disengage completely, which resulted in the clutch eating itself and squealing on engagement.

 

I was less than happy when we pulled it all apart....

 

I can take pictures of the damage if anyone is interested.

 

Btw, I replaced the flywheel surface, pressure plate and friction disc. As well as installing a TSK3 kit. Engagement is great now!

[abakja1]

Mine squealed.... Turned out root cause was a bad master cylinder for the clutch.

 

This caused the clutch to not disengage completely, which resulted in the clutch eating itself and squealing on engagement.

 

I was less than happy when we pulled it all apart....

 

I can take pictures of the damage if anyone is interested.

 

Btw, I replaced the flywheel surface, pressure plate and friction disc. As well as installing a TSK3 kit. Engagement is great now!

 

I am interested in the pics Romy...

I am having a lot of chatter/squealing problems ever since I got the clutch/LWFW...

 

I took it back to the shop I go to after 1k miles or so and he test drove it. I was told that its the nature of having a LWFW and I do trust them as they are an excellent shop...Performance of the product is great, just during engagement and when coasting/low speeds I hear a lot of chatter...Maybe its just my car and need to get it fixed /looked at again to be sure...

 

Btw..what is the TSK3 kit and how do you determine its a bad master cylinder as I had the SPEC put in at about 25k miles and Im at 28k miles now...

[rony]

TSK3 is a kit (sleeve and throw out bearing) that is placed over the transmission quil (the housing over the transmission input shaft). It is primary used as a fix for having a damaged quil. But it also makes for smoother clutch engagement.

 

The dealer discovered the bad master cylinder when they attempted to bleed the clutch. It would not bleed without an extreme amount of vacuum being applied.

 

I believe that the master cylinder has been bad for about 25K miles, which would explain why I had problems bleeding it. Should have been an indicator to replace it, but I had never bleed a clutch before and didn't recognize the issue.

 

There is really nothing to show concerning the master cylinder, but the clutch is foobarred really nicely.

[abakja1]

I finally had to take off the Kartboy Pitchmount....

I had a Beatrush one too for which I put the KB one on...

 

IT DOES make a difference in how the car shifts more positively into gears...But all the associated noise got irritable after a while, and this is while I got used to it for a couple of weeks now..

 

Anyways,..is it the LWFW or the clutch itself that cause this noise like a "chipmunk chirping" in my tranny...it's like a high pitch chirping noise and I hear some "dragging" noise too..

 

Albeit, there is no problem with functionality, but the noise is getting irritable too...I think I should've stuck with Stage I or organic . The upside is how quicker it revs, and the holding power and strength,. but not sure of this noise....Should I go back to the shop I installed it to check everything out? I put on about 4k miles now...

[qikslvr]

I have an AP aluminum pitch stop with hard poly bushings and I will only install it when I go to the track. I can't handle all the noise all the time. I get sick of my STI group N tranny mount too. I'm hoping that the STI engine mounts will hold things still so I can put some softer mounts back in the rear.

I'm having a real hard time not putting a stock FW back in when I have the tranny rebuilt(when it ever actually blows). I'd leave the SPEC Stg2 clutch and PP, but the LWFW needs to go. Mine isn't so bad off the line as it is coasting. Lately it just sounds like it's going to come apart in pretty much every gear. Maybe the 20g is taking it's toll:redface:, but I still think it's the FW. That and it triggers my knock sensor everytime I take off from a dead stop. I don't know that I actually ever felt a real performance difference. I do know that the LWFW made my tranny loud as hell though:mad:.

[StoplightAssassin]

I can't figure out if what I'm getting is a lot of chatter or if it's a loose heat shield. I've been thinking loose heat shield but I can never find anything. I thought it was a broken tab on my Cobb HS (it was broken but not the culprit).

 

Do you guys always get chatter no matter what gear or speed you're going? I only seem to get noise coasting above 35 - 40mph. I can't recall hearing it in 1st or 2nd and sometimes in 3rd, always in 4th and 5th though.

[vaccaroja]

chatter usually happens when its not installed correctly. that happened to my scion tc i had. i had a spec stage two that would chatter almost all the time on the highway. sounds almost like one of the springs in the clutch where slamming into the flywheel. In more recent experiences i had a stage 3 spec in my legacy gt ltd, that chattered ever time i started in first gear. deffinately to strong for the car, it held back the engine quite a bit. Maybe look at getting a different stage clutch, or getting it checked by a different mechanic.

[Max Capacity]

Just found this thread again.

 

I have over 53,000 miles on my Spec 2+ and still love this thing. Yes it's a high performance clutch. If your not willing to put up with a little chatter every now and then, stay stock. Oh wait OEM ones chatter every now and then too and oh yea OEM's slip with any hint of power or stress on them.

 

This thing still grabs as good as it did when new.

 

^ I know this is a old thread now, but what is this guy talking about, "i had a spec stage two that would chatter almost all the time on the highway." I've never heard of a clutch chattering when your driving at 70mph.

[Stock_Sucks]

I'm glad you revived this one.

 

Question? can i put a new plate/friction material on my stock DM flywheel?

I dont like what i hear about LWFW and I wanted to know if its cheaper than replacing the whole FW. (although doing it right is far more important to me than cheaper)I'm pretty much pegged with this Spec Stage 2+ and TSK3 kit. Now I have to pick a FW

[Max Capacity]

I think no but with enough money you can do anything.

I think you can use a 06 WRX flywheel, but I'm no expert.

 

Contact Danny Smith at http://honda-tech.com/member.php?u=2910

 

He works for Spec and goes to lots of the race's as a Rep for them.

[TRSCobra]

I used the oem 06-07 WRX FW with my Spec 2+ clutch and it all went together perfectly. Since it's only a few lbs lighter then the stock FW, the setup feels almost completely stock, too.

[Max Capacity]

For all those who mention clutch chatter...the fix is easy. Mine will chatter if a drive the car like an old lady.

 

To fix it, I get the car rolling a bit in first gear, may roll about 10 feet, push in the clutch give the engine about 5000rpm and dump the clutch, run the engine up to red line in first, shift into 2nd as fast as you can. You can go to red line if you want. shift into 3rd and repeat.The next time you take off the chatter should be gone.

 

Seems to work for me.

 

Oh yea, the smell of tire smoke is a good thing.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Max Capacity