TRSCobra Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Well, now that I'm a broke a$$ unemployed college student, the car's gotta stay as-is for a while. I had some issues and, being a turbo n00b, chalked it up to a dying VF40. I installed everything on my stock engine the first time around and took it to EFI for a tune, not knowing that I had 2 bad ringlands. Chris put it on the dyno, cranked it over, and instantly knew I had low compression on at least one cylinder. I brought it back to them 2 weeks later for them to do the engine work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxx4k Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 what's the initial look out for a bad ring land?? EFI-CT right?? can you Pm me some info. on what's it cost on the rebuild?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) For me, there was knock being detected, lowering my DAM all the way. Ended up having ringlands just sitting there, slapping around the cylinder between the rings. Yep. EFI Logics in Bethel, CT. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/TRSCobra/ErikB_05LGT_Teardown_02.jpg http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/TRSCobra/ErikB_05LGT_Teardown_04.jpg Edited December 21, 2010 by TRSCobra Added pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hops Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Oh nice. Been there! Our ring lands are pretty weak. Buy my cars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtrace95 Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 For me, there was knock being detected, lowering my DAM all the way. Ended up having ringlands just sitting there, slapping around the cylinder between the rings. Yep. EFI Logics in Bethel, CT. By the look of the piston skirt, Looks like you were getting alot of blow by. That engine must have been getting tired. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/TRSCobra/ErikB_05LGT_Teardown_02.jpg http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/TRSCobra/ErikB_05LGT_Teardown_04.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 ^ I drove some 5000 miles with the ringlands broken like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty B Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Stock EJ255 heads and cams. EFI went really conservative on the tune to be safe on the new shortblock. I'm going to have it retuned a little more aggressively with a 92 octane tune (and maybe meth) when I get around to it. This setup easily has more in it. How long it take them to get to your car? I had diner with Pete (guy that works up front) the other night and he said they're way backed up on engine work... Been that way for awhile as far as I know too. Did you have oil consumption with the ringland or other tell-tales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 When I went there in late August, they told me they were booked til mid November! We worked out a deal for me to leave my car there and they'd get to it as soon as they could (like if someone cancelled.) I think they started on it some time in mid-late October and finished the break in and tune on Nov 17th. The car didn't have any noticeable oil consumption and the only real signs were pulled ignition timing and the uneven cranking. If I drove the car normally and never looked at the logs, I'd probably still be driving on those broken ringlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxx4k Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 th car drove fine with that broken piston?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hops Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 My buddy drove his around like that for a while... Just couldn't take it past 4k rpm. Buy my cars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 So, what is the sign of a bad ring land? I'm starting to wonder if the following mean anything, or they're just random minor things not to worry about. Warning: I've recently diagnosed myself as a hypocardriac (I'm always thinking something's wrong with my car..) Background: '05 5EAT with BNRevo16g, DW650 injectors, Walbro (are they all noisy?), gutted UP/DP. Car has 74K, 10K with BNR mods, around 30k at stage 2 before that, etc.. No CEL, APv1 reports no DTCs at all in thousands of miles.. Will soon be doing: Killer B oil pickup, belts and pulleys (incl. timing belt). That's the reason I'm asking: if I need more extensive work, this is the time to figure it out.. Symptoms: -changed the plugs 1k miles ago. Old plugs (30k miles) seemed to be possibly carbon fouled. Old and new are LFR7AIX (one step colder) - I might go back to LFR6AIX for the next set. Plugs made no noticeable difference. -passed smog in CA before I did the plugs. Both values were around 30-50% of max allowed values. -hesitates/stumbles a bit when cold. Once revved up a bit or warmed up, fine -lumpy idle. Especially noticeable when cold - sometimes feels like it will stall if A/C is on when cold, but has never actually stalled. Even when fully warm, still lumpy. Can feel the car vibrate when it misses/stumbles. Could this be a tuning/injector issue? -runs great when starting from a stop, will hit 16-17 psi in 3rd, 20-21 in 4th, etc.. Will pull strong to redline. Cruising on the freeway, hit WOT and it takes off like a shot. Once in a while with 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, doesn't kick in as fast as I think it should, but WOT always makes it "go". -there's a particular onramp when leaving from work where I make a right-hand-turn (but not 90 degree turn, it's curved) to get onto the ramp. The ramp itself is mostly straight. I'm often coasting around 20-25 mph until I get on to the ramp. If I floor it at that point (not aligned with the ramp yet), I seem to get a reproducible "wump wump" sound that seems to be coming from the left side of the car. It happens 2 or 3 times, no more. I've had it happen maybe one other time when really getting on it. Unfortunately, things are happening pretty fast, straightening out the car, WOT, etc, it's hard to really pin things down. I'm wondering if this is tire spin/axle hop because the car is still turning somewhat at this point? Or if it's detonation/knock (something I've never really encountered before, not sure if I even know exactly what it sounds like)? Would a bad ring land cause detonation? Would a bad enough knock event register as a DTC? I'm afraid to try to reproduce it because I don't want to constantly be knocking. -last oil change, it was noted "may have a head gasket leak". Do we have 1 head gasket or 2? The only head gaskets I have experience with are inline 4s, where they would run really badly at idle, but when floored, they'd still run ok. That's why my idle stumble has me wondering - although it's been there since the BNR upgrade and hasn't really gotten worse. Thanks for any feedback. TL;DR - I freak out every time my car does anything slightly unusual. Maybe I should take rao's advice and never drive it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 ^ Colder plugs won't make a difference that's noticeable to you, but they WILL reduce your chance of detonation, which is a major cause of ringland failure. If you're running significantly higher than stock boost levels, colder plugs are your friend. Cracked ringlands don't cause detonation/knock AFAIK, but they can trick your ECU into thinking there's a knock from the pieces of ringland rattling around in there. I've never heard detonation on my subaru, but on other cars, it sounded almost like the rattle of the ball in a spray paint can. Subaru boxer engines have 2 cylinder banks, so there are 2 head gaskets. Have a compression and leak down test done to determine if your head gaskets/ringlands are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thanks for the info, TRSCobra! Will stick with the colder plugs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 -there's a particular onramp when leaving from work where I make a right-hand-turn (but not 90 degree turn, it's curved) to get onto the ramp. The ramp itself is mostly straight. I'm often coasting around 20-25 mph until I get on to the ramp. If I floor it at that point (not aligned with the ramp yet), I seem to get a reproducible "wump wump" sound that seems to be coming from the left side of the car. It happens 2 or 3 times, no more. I've had it happen maybe one other time when really getting on it. Unfortunately, things are happening pretty fast, straightening out the car, WOT, etc, it's hard to really pin things down. I'm wondering if this is tire spin/axle hop because the car is still turning somewhat at this point? Or if it's detonation/knock (something I've never really encountered before, not sure if I even know exactly what it sounds like)? Would a bad ring land cause detonation? Would a bad enough knock event register as a DTC? I'm afraid to try to reproduce it because I don't want to constantly be knocking. Ok, it happened again last night. And I tried to pay more attention to it. It sounded exactly like when on previous cars I had a muffler bouncing off the rear trim on acceleration. Then it clicked: there's a bit of a dip on the onramp compared to coming off the turn, so I'm essentially flooring it in the middle of a dip, while turning right. And the sound is coming from the left, which is the most compressed side of the suspension. So, it sounds like my left muffler may be hitting the body/rear bumper. I did think it sounded like it was coming from the rear wheel at one time, but I couldn't imagine the rear wheel spinning/hopping without noticing some other symptoms such as a bouncing feeling. Has anyone else has rubbing/bouncing mufflers? I have Cobb sways (on soft) - could it be hitting those? I took a quick look in the dark yesterday, and it didn't look like it would hit the sways, but I'll take another look tomorrow for signs of rubbing. Then all I need is new/stronger hangers. That's very relieving - I think I figured it out. So, back to cracked/broken ringlands: if all you get (maybe) is knocking, why is it so bad? Does it drop compression (I would imagine so)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRSCobra Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 th car drove fine with that broken piston?? If I drove the thing like a normal, non-performance minded person, I never would have noticed that there was an issue. It was down on power, so I started logging and noticed there was a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 If you catch it early, you can just replace the piston. A broken ringland will cause the piston and the cylinder wall to deteriorate over time though, and it can trash the whole motor. Bigger chunks of piston come off, or metal dust gets into the oil and ruins all the bearings, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95963&d=1296507753 BNR 18g-TD05Walbro 255FPWitchhunter 875cc InjectorsRacerX FMICAEM CAI Grimspeed 3port EBCSGFB BOV 50/50Perrin Turbo InletMR Quad tip CBE ERZ Catted DPPerrin Up pipePerrin EL HeadersGrimspeed gaskets for all TBE jointsTactrix 2.0Infamous Stage 3 Road Tune for CA91 & E85 06 STI Helical Front DiffClutchmasters FX300 STI ClutchExedy STI LW FlywheelGroup A crank and alternator pulleys Elevation: 750ftTemp: 70 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Any chance we can see the log? Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 If i can get my rom raider working again, sure. It didn't like the tactrix beta drivers, had to reinstall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotsugg Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Same here. Would love to see a few logs. I wish Infamous would plot my numbers using the same spreadsheet, hint hint Nice set-up and numbers btw. Would love to have access to e85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Same here. Would love to see a few logs. I wish Infamous would plot my numbers using the same spreadsheet, hint hint Nice set-up and numbers btw. Would love to have access to e85 I plotted this one because I was curious myself, very pleased. Your car is a 5eat and the data seems to not work with me in most cases . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotsugg Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I’m seeing the same thing. I would like to see a few logs of someone running a solid 350whp so that I could do some comparisons. Anyone willing to share a few logs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow05gtRI Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 sugg which turbo are you running on your 5eat? i've had problems trying to use airboy with my 5EAT as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotsugg Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm running a Dom 2.5, older version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew888 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 ^^ nice choice. I'm already thinking of my next one and cannot decide. It has to be bigger than a 20g though. [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1586"VbGallery/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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