SubLo Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I'm looking at a BBK. Don't know which direction to go. Brembos? It would be really nice if those of you who've done it could do some writeups in the Review section or here. Yeah, I read Xenonk's "how to buy brakes." It's very good but is not what I'm looking for. I've read through a myriad of posts but things are so convoluted I can't extract the information I'm looking for: (1) what kits are out there (2) ballpark cost (3) which vendors and finally (4) performance improvements / reviews good or bad. ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 The Brake Bias thread lists almost every kit, and even mixed kits. It tells what they do to the bias. As far as reviews, you will have to look for reviews in threads where folks installed them. Sadly, there are so few folks out there with them, I don't think the reviews would be good. Folks have simply only driven one BBK usually, and a lot of those people didn't fully upgrade the stockers first. Personally, I have driven an STi Brembos (Carbotech Bobcat pads, 2-piece DBA rotors, lines, and fluid). I have driven my car with a fully upgraded stock set-up (2-piece iON Front Rotors, Endless SS-M pads, fluid, lines, and the rear racing brake stock caliper BBK). And lastly, I now have a front and rear Stoptech/COBB set-up (I have used Cobbs pads and XP-12s F/XP10s R) My review is as follows... STi Brembos I liked them, but they were a little more on/off then I expected. I don't know whether it was the pads, or a poor Master cylinder/piston size choice by Subaru, but these were the hardest of the 3 to modulate. The did not fade until about bedding in # 10 when doing 100-5 mph stops. At this point the fronts were smoking and the rears were hot. I give these a 7-8 out of 10. These will be lower or higher than the set-up below depending on whether you value a stiff pedal, or modulation. Fully Upgraded Stock Set-up Modulation on this set-up was 100 times better than the STi. But, more pedal travel was required for the same amount of stopping force. In the same 100-5 mph bedding procedure, this set-up had slightly less fade than the Brembos above. Also, all 4 corners were smoking, but the front were smoking more. I attribute this to the larger rear set-up which shifted more to the rear. I also think the iON 2-piece rotors have better cooling than the DBA 2-piece rotors. I give these a 7-8 out of 10. These will be lower or higher than the set-up above depending on whether you value a stiff pedal, or modulation. http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/Rotors/iONFrontInstalled1.jpg http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/Rotors/Racing%20Brake%20316mm%20Rear/RacingBrakeRear316mmKitInstalled2.jpg F+R Stoptech/COBB Set-up Let's see, the pedal travel is shorter than stock, but these have great modulation. The pedal is much stiffer than stock, and a good bit stiffer than the Brembos. During bed in w/ the COBB pads which do not have as high a temp range as either the SS-Ms or the Bobcats, I did not get fade in the first 10 100-5 mph stops. During the next 5 from slightly above 100 down to about 10 mph, I started to see fade at 3 and it was the same as the other two by the 5th, or 15th stop. At that point all 4 corners had even smoke coming off of them. I never encountered fade at the track with the XP10/XP8 combo, and that was running back to back sessions w/ no rest unlike everyone else. (About 6 sessions total through the day) The two of us driving the car were not running easy, and we were using almost every bit of the Hoosier R6s on the car. After the back-to back 20 minute session, the brakes were hot, but not smoking at all, and I did not have any air in the lines after a bleed One slight drawback is that the smaller pistons mean less pedal travel. That combined with a high mu brake pad and rediculously stiff calipers mean that heel toeing is MUCH harder I give these a 9.5 out of 10. These are much better than the other two, but whether they are worth the price is up to you http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/BBK/Install/FrontInstalled1.jpg http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/BBK/Install/RearInstalled1.jpg From driving other cars, and feedback from some friends, I would rate most brake kits like this... 1. AP Racing/Stoptech (Both great, AP Racing has a better heritage) 2. Brmebo 3. Racing Brake 4. Wilwood Kits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLo Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Awesome! This is the type of feedback I was looking for! ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 the Brembo upgrade makes the most sense if you already have wheels to support them. I did Cobb pads, lines and Motul fluid first and wasn't happy (and spent $500). Looking at a Brembo swap...it wasn't much more expensive if you can sell your stock front brakes ($1200- ~$400). I did Brembo's with 2pc rotors and Hawk HPS pads F/R....sold the Brembo rotor and pads before install.....think I had about $900 in the setup after selling all the things I didn't need and was quite happy with it. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/brembos.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Good info Ted. I have the AP front BBK (complete with DBA5000 2-piece rotors). The brake modulation and feel is incredible (vs OEM calipers and Bobcats). The Pluses to the AP kit is the lightweight (even lighter then the Stoptechs) and the fact that they easily fit behind OEM wheels (which I use for winter driving). They came with the Mintex Extreme Motorsport pads that go up to over 1300F. I beat on these pads to the point where I saw glowing pieces of dust come off and melted my center caps on my wheels. I did 18 stops from 90 mph, then full throttle immediately thereafter (320 whp) to do it again. No fade at all, nothing, they wanted more, and more and more. I have had them for 6 months now and they are working great. LBGT's AP BBK I know that Ted would have preferred the AP kit to his Stoptech one, in the end they are very close, with the cost nod going to Stoptech and the weight more compact size nod going to AP. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 can't say enough about the benefit of a 2pc rotor. We did a stint of The Tail of The Dragon in NC/TN with the car full of luggage, camera gear, parts for my MINI and two 65lb kayaks on the roof (with more gear stowed inside). Never did I get a hint that the brakes weren't up to the task and there literally was no room left inside the car....full up with stuff after our wedding. anybody that has run the Dragon knows it's hard on brakes http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/img_6783.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLo Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Awesome info guys! Thanks! LBGT, great read on your thread. Where'd you buy your kit from? Cost? Thanks again. ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Awesome info guys! Thanks! LBGT, great read on your thread. Where'd you buy your kit from? Cost? Thanks again. I got it from Rallitek. I forgot to add the benefits of two-piece rotors as well..............Less weight!! Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 If we can get one or two more reviews, I will sticky this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_Otaku Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hey Praedet, Awesome post and reviews! This definitely helps all the LGT'ers out there, and it's great info. It's also nice hearing from someone who's gone through multiple set-ups; that perspective is invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_Otaku Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Good info Ted. I have the AP front BBK (complete with DBA5000 2-piece rotors). The brake modulation and feel is incredible (vs OEM calipers and Bobcats). The Pluses to the AP kit is the lightweight (even lighter then the Stoptechs) and the fact that they easily fit behind OEM wheels (which I use for winter driving). They came with the Mintex Extreme Motorsport pads that go up to over 1300F. I beat on these pads to the point where I saw glowing pieces of dust come off and melted my center caps on my wheels. I did 18 stops from 90 mph, then full throttle immediately thereafter (320 whp) to do it again. No fade at all, nothing, they wanted more, and more and more. I have had them for 6 months now and they are working great. LBGT's AP BBK I know that Ted would have preferred the AP kit to his Stoptech one, in the end they are very close, with the cost nod going to Stoptech and the weight more compact size nod going to AP. Hey LBGT, Great review as well! Beautiful BBKs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_Otaku Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 can't say enough about the benefit of a 2pc rotor. We did a stint of The Tail of The Dragon in NC/TN with the car full of luggage, camera gear, parts for my MINI and two 65lb kayaks on the roof (with more gear stowed inside). Never did I get a hint that the brakes weren't up to the task and there literally was no room left inside the car....full up with stuff after our wedding. anybody that has run the Dragon knows it's hard on brakes http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/img_6783.jpg Hey PGT, Thanks for your valuable review as well! Wow, that Tail of the Dragon looks crazy-fun! Did you get any more pix of that run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLo Posted October 3, 2007 Author Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hey. I was browsing some of the vendor sites for the AP Racing setup - pricey! I came across the Brembo upgrade from King of parts. Front and Back together would cost about what the AP 6-pot front costs alone! Anybody have any thoughts on these aftermarket Brembo's that haven't already been mentioned? I imagine these the exact STi brakes? https://www.thekingofparts.com/servlet/Categories?category=Legacy+05%2B%3ABraking http://www.thekingofparts.com/catalog/brembo.jpg http://www.thekingofparts.com/catalog/rearsti.jpg ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hey. I was browsing some of the vendor sites for the AP Racing setup - pricey! I came across the Brembo upgrade from King of parts. Front and Back together would cost about what the AP 6-pot front costs alone! Anybody have any thoughts on these aftermarket Brembo's that haven't already been mentioned? I imagine these the exact STi brakes? I have the AP front kit only, and it is the 4-pot design. I don't think more is needed. In fact the guy from Brake-pros does not like to recommend the 6-pots in cars weighing less then 3600 lbs, says you lose brake feel and don't really gain anything. I still have the Bobcat pads in the back and they are doing fine. I think our rear set-up is more then adequate w/ better pads alone. I melted my front wheel senter caps and the rears (although not able to handle as much heat) where still OK. FWIW I have an ABS defeat switch, and my brake bias is very close to ideal for my suspension set-up. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hey PGT, Thanks for your valuable review as well! Wow, that Tail of the Dragon looks crazy-fun! Did you get any more pix of that run? yup! here's the sequence... http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/img_6782.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/img_6783.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/img_6784.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/img_6785.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opie Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I have the Brembo front & rear kit installed using the supplied Brembo slotted rotors and Ferodo pads and am extremely satisfied with the performance. The pedal is much firmer than stock and I've found that the matched front & rear kit is very easy to modulate and has excellent stopping power. Like PGT I've run the Tail of the Dragon with the car loaded for a family vacation (no kayaks on the roof for me tho! ) and also had no performance issue with the Brembo's...my wife got car sick....but the Brembo's were happy as a clam! http://www.thel7.com/Wills/2.5GT/brakes.jpg http://www.thel7.com/Wills/qwik.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_Otaku Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 yup! here's the sequence... Thanks PGT. That looks like a really fun drive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_Otaku Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Opie, Gorgeous Wheel & BBK pics. Thanks for the info on your experience as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredBeans Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hey. I was browsing some of the vendor sites for the AP Racing setup - pricey! I came across the Brembo upgrade from King of parts. Front and Back together would cost about what the AP 6-pot front costs alone! Anybody have any thoughts on these aftermarket Brembo's that haven't already been mentioned? I imagine these the exact STi brakes? https://www.thekingofparts.com/servlet/Categories?category=Legacy+05%2B%3ABraking http://www.thekingofparts.com/catalog/brembo.jpg http://www.thekingofparts.com/catalog/rearsti.jpg The K.O.P can cut you a sweeeet $deal$ on a FT & RR kit if you wnat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLo Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 P.M. Sent! ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buru Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I want the STI Brembo, but am going to put two piece rotors on atleast the front. I know that it will cost almost as much as the stopteck stuff, but its BREMBO and gold looks great on a black car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 The brembo set-up is one of the least expensive F+R set-ups out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buru Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I think that the brembo calipers are up there with best of them, but this kit saves money on pads and definately the rotors. I am not saying the the rotors that come with this kit are bad by any means, but the other kits rotors are a lot nicer. They are nicer because they weigh 6 pounds less and will have better heat disipation. Remember the rotor weight counts for unsprung weight as well as rotational inertia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Honestly, Brembos are good, but Stoptech and AP Racing are in a different league... 2-piece rotors will always be lighter, and generally have better cooling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buru Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Please elaborate on the differences between the stoptech and brembo. I like the brembos a lot, but when you are spending that kinda money you want to do it right. Please explain how each difference is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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