How to Buy a New Subaru at 2% Below Dealer Invoice Without Haggling

[AKLGT]

good question. I would think it's before the destination or dealer fees.

[stewartg]

It is simply the price you pay for the car before any other rebates, finance charges, taxes and fees. Destination is not included in the price.

[Jon in CT]

Or is it 2% off the entire dealer invoice including destination?

This is correct.

[stewartg]

;1675445']This is correct.

I stand corrected then. Jon knows his stuff and I have no reason to argue with what he says, I guess I was mistaken.

[AKLGT]

eh, moved up my order date to April so I can pick up in MAY

[godwhomismike]

Thanks - I ordered the IMBA Membership - Individual (Basic) last night.

 

Hopefully, in mid-to-late September, I won't have any issues when trying to get the VIP program.

[tachikaze]

Thanks - I ordered the IMBA Membership - Individual (Basic) last night.

 

Hopefully, in mid-to-late September, I won't have any issues when trying to get the VIP program.

 

I'm already halfway thru the waiting period, though at the speed LGTs are (not) moving through the local dealers I could probably easily beat VIP for one of their lot queens.

 

But the 09s should be coming in July/Aug, and a white w/ black interior Spec.B and the allegedly improved sound system seems like a pretty good ride.

[...YKW]

Just to establish a bit more clarity:

 

Is Dealer Invoice the same as the Invoice we see on cars101.com and other sites reporting Invoice? Just want to make sure they're the same and if not what the differences would be. Thanks Jon!

No, no, no. The actual invoice is not the same as you see on the websites. I'm the internet sales manager for a Subaru Dealership in Colorado and constantly have people asking my why the invoice on Edmunds.com is different than the actual invoice on the car. Edmunds and the other sites don't account for the "destination charge" that is directly from the manufacturer and is printed on the invoice. This is the charge for freighting the car either across the country (if your vehicle was made at our Indiana plant) or from Japan. This is NOT a dealership handling fee, it is directly from Fuji Heavy Industries. Those websites also don't account for the "factory add-ons" like armrest extensions, security shock sensors, remote start, auto dimming mirror with compass, etc.

 

In my honest opinion if you truly want the best deal on a car (which should be invoice minus all hold back) submit a few leads to dealers in your area. Let them know that you are looking for the absolute best price on a specific vehicle. If you think you are going to walk onto a dealership and get a great price you are out of your mind. Let your fingers do the work for you and compare and contrast the price quotes that you are given. Once you have gotten your lowest quote email back the dealerships and ask them to beat that price. Eventually you will get to the point where there is maybe $50 difference in prices. At the end I would give the opportunity to the salesman that worked best with you. Also, if any of you have questions about pricing or incentives feel free to shoot me a PM.

 

-Chad

[tachikaze]

^ actually cars101.com's invoice pages do break out the destination charge in a separate column for a true "dealer's invoice" quote, and some sites do in fact list the invoice prices of the available options, eg: Motor Trend's summary page here.

 

(apparently invoice price is 60-65% of list for options )

 

But thanks for the advice on pricing. I tend to be somewhat passive and a take-it-or-leave-it type, so my negotiating plan, if I were looking at taking delivery from the dealer's inventory, is just offer the price I was willing to pay, somewhat determined by how long the car has been in inventory (which I assume can be accurately guessed at by looking at the VIN code's serial number).

 

Assuming I can get 2% under invoice for new factory order, I'm going to want most of the holdback for a lot queen that's been in inventory for months and months.

[AKLGT]

No, no, no. The actual invoice is not the same as you see on the websites. I'm the internet sales manager for a Subaru Dealership in Colorado and constantly have people asking my why the invoice on Edmunds.com is different than the actual invoice on the car. Edmunds and the other sites don't account for the "destination charge" that is directly from the manufacturer and is printed on the invoice. This is the charge for freighting the car either across the country (if your vehicle was made at our Indiana plant) or from Japan. This is NOT a dealership handling fee, it is directly from Fuji Heavy Industries. Those websites also don't account for the "factory add-ons" like armrest extensions, security shock sensors, remote start, auto dimming mirror with compass, etc.

 

In my honest opinion if you truly want the best deal on a car (which should be invoice minus all hold back) submit a few leads to dealers in your area. Let them know that you are looking for the absolute best price on a specific vehicle. If you think you are going to walk onto a dealership and get a great price you are out of your mind. Let your fingers do the work for you and compare and contrast the price quotes that you are given. Once you have gotten your lowest quote email back the dealerships and ask them to beat that price. Eventually you will get to the point where there is maybe $50 difference in prices. At the end I would give the opportunity to the salesman that worked best with you. Also, if any of you have questions about pricing or incentives feel free to shoot me a PM.

 

-Chad

OR.... I can order exactly the car I want from the dealer my husband works at and friend owns and they will give me 2% under invoice, no questions asked and cost on anything else that I want. They get something from the manufacturer and I get a great price on the car I want from the dealer I want to buy from too. Also, $150 goes back to the organization we support.

[...YKW]

^ actually cars101.com's invoice pages do break out the destination charge in a separate column for a true "dealer's invoice" quote, and some sites do in fact list the invoice prices of the available options, eg: Motor Trend's summary page here.

 

(apparently invoice price is 60-65% of list for options )

 

But thanks for the advice on pricing. I tend to be somewhat passive and a take-it-or-leave-it type, so my negotiating plan, if I were looking at taking delivery from the dealer's inventory, is just offer the price I was willing to pay, somewhat determined by how long the car has been in inventory (which I assume can be accurately guessed at by looking at the VIN code's serial number).

 

Assuming I can get 2% under invoice for new factory order, I'm going to want most of the holdback for a lot queen that's been in inventory for months and months.

-The Motor Trend link is still about $300 off (with options added in) on the MSRP and Invoices sitting on my desk right now.

 

-Looking at the VIN and comparing it to the other VINs on the lot is not a very safe way of determining the age of units. Dealers do what's called "Dealer Trades" a few times a day. If the car is a dealer trade their age is automatically reset to zero. A "Dealer Trade" is essentially trading a car in our stock for a car in another dealerships stock so that the customer can get the color/trim that they want.

 

-You should be able to get invoice minus all of holdback pricing on EVERY new Subaru that you purchase regardless of DIS (Days In Stock).

 

-If you are looking to get great pricing on a Pre-Owned Subaru DIS is a HUGE factor. Dealerships get charged for Pre-Owned cars that have been sitting on their lots for a long time.

 

Very good discussion on this thread, hopefully it helps to save everyone a ton of money.

 

-Chad

[stewartg]

OR.... I can order exactly the car I want from the dealer my husband works at and friend owns and they will give me 2% under invoice, no questions asked and cost on anything else that I want. They get something from the manufacturer and I get a great price on the car I want from the dealer I want to buy from too. Also, $150 goes back to the organization we support.

Same deal with me, just not married to anyone at the dealer. They gave me a great price and said all my future purchases would get the same deal. No VIP waiting or paperwork. And my salesperson does all the paperwork so I don't have to talk to the f'n F&I manager. I hate that dick.

 

No, no, no. The actual invoice is not the same as you see on the websites. I'm the internet sales manager for a Subaru Dealership in Colorado and constantly have people asking my why the invoice on Edmunds.com is different than the actual invoice on the car. Edmunds and the other sites don't account for the "destination charge" that is directly from the manufacturer and is printed on the invoice.

Edmunds lists the base Invoice and itemizes the destination and invoice on all options. On Edmunds you get to see the base and actual msrp, the base and actual invoice and the tmv (true market value, what dealers submit as actual sale prices).

[AKLGT]

Same deal with me, just not married to anyone at the dealer. They gave me a great price and said all my future purchases would get the same deal. No VIP waiting or paperwork. And my salesperson does all the paperwork so I don't have to talk to the f'n F&I manager. I hate that dick.

 

 

Edmunds lists the base Invoice and itemizes the destination and invoice on all options. On Edmunds you get to see the base and actual msrp, the base and actual invoice and the tmv (true market value, what dealers submit as actual sale prices).

lol. well, I know all the Finance guys so it's not an issue for me. There are some things that make me irritated about them, but they are a dealership, so that's to be expected. Overall, they've done a good job for me, even before hubby started working there. This will be our 3rd Subie we've bought from them since April 2005.

[stewartg]

lol. well, I know all the Finance guys so it's not an issue for me. There are some things that make me irritated about them, but they are a dealership, so that's to be expected. Overall, they've done a good job for me, even before hubby started working there. This will be our 3rd Subie we've bought from them since April 2005.

This guy is a big push over, and was taking it personal that I wouldn't accept the extended warranty. On my first Impreza (also my first new car purchase) he suckered me into everything as well as inflating the cars price. When that was totaled I ordered another car from them, went to do the signing and he had all the paperwork done up per my last sale. I didn't want all the crap this time and he refused to rework the paperwork, so I left swearing never to return. Bought my next two cars elsewhere and then I was looking for a spec.b. Well, I was referred to the fleet manager at the same dealer and he quoted me much lower than anyone else. I was reluctant but worked a deal with him for even less than his initial offering of invoice. Then he sat me in f&i, it ended up being the same dick that pushed me over there 7 years ago. He took it personal that I wouldn't take the gap and extended warranty, started raising his voice and calling me an idiot. I walked out of there, jumped in my car and left. The salesperson called me asked what happened and then he talked to the dealers owner. The dealers owner called me back and asked me to give a written statement, after he received that he called subaru finance and got my loan rate reduced since they couldn't knock anymore off the car (dealer made only $50 on the deal). I went back in and signed new papers with the fleet manager and waited a few weeks for my car to arrive.

 

He told me if I buy any other cars from them I will get VIP or lower and he would do the signing. 6 months later I took him up on that offer and bought my 08 Impreza. Now I refer everyone to him even though the same guy is still the f&i manager.

 

Sorry thats off-topic, just a sore spot for me.

[AKLGT]

wow. sounds like that guy has issues!

 

most of the Finance guys I've dealt with know they don't make much money from me on those since I get them at cost. They don't care either way. I always get the GAP though, but don't bother with extended warranty anymore.

[stewartg]

wow. sounds like that guy has issues!

 

most of the Finance guys I've dealt with know they don't make much money from me on those since I get them at cost. They don't care either way. I always get the GAP though, but don't bother with extended warranty anymore.

Gap is good, but is usually cheaper through your auto insurance carrier. I know all car guys aren't bad, I used to work at Lexus and the finance manager there was a really nice guy.

[p0nyb0y20]

I just bought my car with the VIP program and I got my 08 lecacy GT for 2% less then invoice in Feb. The only option that was part of the 2% less then invoice was the navi. The deal was very smooth. The dealer gets a kick back from subaru. So they make their money a different way.

[AKLGT]

Gap is good, but is usually cheaper through your auto insurance carrier. I know all car guys aren't bad, I used to work at Lexus and the finance manager there was a really nice guy.

GAP costs me $300, so it's pretty cheap buying it thru the dealer for me.

 

and I just ordered my VIP paperwork today. They are telling me the car should arrive in about 10-14 days now.

[tachikaze]

Instead of VIP it wouldn't hurt to check out plain dickering (prolly with another vendor if you want to play by the VIP rules to preserve the VIP option).

 

VIP is $500 or $600 under invoice + other incentives, but from what I gather total holdbacks are around $2000 under invoice. (I doubt a dealer would do a factory order for $2000 under invoice, but the worst they could say is NO I guess).

 

Thanks Chad for the information. I don't care about the "DIS" number as much as I care about how long ago the car left the factory, and since the cars are numbered sequentially in the VIN it's possible to roughly figure that out as the MY progresses. If I had my choice I'd sit in the car as it went down the line and drive it out the door.

[stewartg]

Thanks Chad for the information. I don't care about the "DIS" number as much as I care about how long ago the car left the factory, and since the cars are numbered sequentially in the VIN it's possible to roughly figure that out as the MY progresses. If I had my choice I'd sit in the car as it went down the line and drive it out the door.

Same here, and I would watch the painters like a hawk. I will not buy a new car that has sat on the lot even for a week. I take delivery when it is coming off truck, they inspect it, and im on my way home to detail it myself. I'll never let a dealer touch my paintwork again.

[AKLGT]

well, I plan to detail, wash, wax and clay bar the new car once it arrives. should be in a week, maybe 2.

[godwhomismike]

I'm already halfway thru the waiting period, though at the speed LGTs are (not) moving through the local dealers I could probably easily beat VIP for one of their lot queens.

 

But the 09s should be coming in July/Aug, and a white w/ black interior Spec.B and the allegedly improved sound system seems like a pretty good ride.

 

The audio system on the 2009 is much better. I got a demo of it at the NY Autoshow.

 

.

[AKLGT]

Well for reference to those who are curious on the VIP pricing difference:

 

2008 STI hatch w/ BBS package (no nav) and ipod integration kit and sport grill

MSRP $38,900 (including destination fee, but not including add'l dealer fee: $40,100)

Employee Pricing $36,000 (including destination fee)

VIP Program Pricing $35,300 (including destination fee, rust proofing, GAP insurance, not including down payment)

[LegGTLT]

Nice, a good 10% off of MSRP on a hot ride. Congrats!

[AKLGT]

Well, I spoke to Subaru Puyallup and they wouldn't even come close to matching! oh well, their loss!