handlebar Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Hello everyone, I am wondering if anyone here tested the VW r32 as well as the legacy gt. I have talked the r32 down to 27,500 or so, and i think i can do better. I test drove both(as well as the lancer evo, and sti), and they are both awsome cars. I am just wondering if anyone has tried them both out on a track? I bet with some upgrades to the tires and suspension, the legacy would do preaty well. The other thing i wonder about is reliability. I hear the recent vw's have had some anoying problems. It seems that Subaru problems are mostly modification related. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of each mostly in terms of handling, would be greatly apreciated. I am thinking for the price of an r32 i could get a Legacy gt and add a nice suspension and tires, and it would come with a spare tire and a better awd system. thanks . Handlebar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Here is a [URL=http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2446]previous thread[/URL] about the R32. It is a good starting point... Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidiq Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 VW's AWD system is FWD till it starts slipping, which is different from the Subaru method, which is AWD all the time (basically). But the R32 has great seats, and it's 6 speed is quite nice. There's also a twin turbo kit for it that kicks it up to 500hp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptimusPrime Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Before you jump into anything VW take a long hard look at their reliability. I think it's among some of the worst in the industry right now. I just got rid of my Jetta for that very reason and I couldn't be happier with my LGT. Don't get me wrong though...I loved the Jetta......before the windows started falling into the doors....or the MAF sensor went, over and over again......or the coil pack failed repeatedly. And I know at least 5 other former VW owners with the same or similar issues. The R32 is a very impressive car but expect to keep paying for it....especially when the warranty runs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjapimp Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Just as a point of fact, the R32 shares none of the same big issues as the previous MkIV cars aside from the window regulators (which I suspect are using the aluminum version stock now). The R32 is a kick-ass car. If it were available in Canada, I likely would have bought one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I'm sorry but I can't imagine spending more than 18-20K on a VW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der5er Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 [quote name='jedimaster']I'm sorry but I can't imagine spending more than 18-20K on a VW.[/QUOTE] Value is a subjective quality and you are certainly entitled to as much subjectivism as you'd prefer, but I find your opinion against widespread acceptance. Without meaning to engage in a flame-throwing battle, I'd think any Passat/Touareg/Phaeton is worth its admission price more than a $30K Subaru. Dragos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 [quote name='Der5er']Value is a subjective quality and you are certainly entitled to as much subjectivism as you'd prefer, but I find your opinion against widespread acceptance. Without meaning to engage in a flame-throwing battle, I'd think any Passat/Touareg/Phaeton is worth its admission price more than a $30K Subaru. Dragos[/QUOTE] OK- maybe I'm an iconoclast, but I tend to state my opinion, regardless of what popular opinion may be. My father has a 2003 VW Beetle TurboS- nice and fast little car, but the price of it is a bit out of hand, to me because it's "just a VW" to me. I should know, I bought it for him :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der5er Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 [quote name='jedimaster']OK- maybe I'm an iconoclast, but I tend to state my opinion, regardless of what popular opinion may be. My father has a 2003 VW Beetle TurboS- nice and fast little car, but the price of it is a bit out of hand, to me because it's "just a VW" to me. I should know, I bought it for him :D[/QUOTE] I understand your point, as I'm in a similar conundrum (hence my reference to a $30K Subaru). I think the trick is to choose carefully an advantageous point of view and look at the competition: a $20k Golf 1.8T is a Civic/Corolla-class car with better interiors and much, much faster. A $30k Golf R32 is on par with a top-end 3 series, with an equally nice interior (de gustibus). Returning to the original question, (R32 vs LGT) one reason I would not choose the Golf is that it's at the end of its career. The platform is morally old and it will depreciate steeply once the Golf V arrives here. It's not necessarily a valid reason not to buy/consider one, as being an old model does not make it any less of a car. Dragos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 FYI, I just watched 5th Gear on Speed and this episode featured a research on whiplash. The MK4 Golf scored the worse amongst all the cars. All VW/Audis are the same in the whiplash dept. Volvo and Saab came out tops. ww.thatcham.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 What about our active headrest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 The R32 is a bulletproof car but if yr looking for fast point to point go with the EVOVIII. They say if they could take the engine out of the EVO and slot it into the MY05 WRX STi, the STi would be mad. The EVO has shocking build quality inside and out but the motor helps to drown these out. The R32 looks good and is quick but no way near as quick as the GT, EVO or STi. Pesonally I would stick with the GT or move up to the STi, but then again I could be called biased. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolutionmovement Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I've worked on lots of VWs and Audis and they are without doubt some of the worst cars I've worked on. It's not just the major engine problems with the 1.8Ts or 2.0s (that VW is ignoring), but the wiring itself is to a worse standard than Kias I've worked on. Ever see a VW older than 6 months with all its lights working? I've had connectors crumble in my hands on cars younger than two years and they seem to love to use the smallest gauge wires they can get away with. It's really too bad as they are good looking cars, but I'd trust my 250k Legacy to drive cross country over any new VW older than a year just to get me across a couple states. Even the new car's warranty would be no comfort as they never seem to help their customers anyway. Oh your oil pump clogged because our pick ups are too small? Hm, you changed the oil at 3k miles and only a quart came out? Yeah, we're aware of those problems. Have a nice day. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axis008 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Speaking of the R32, if you're into tuning, have you seen: [url="http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/index.html"]http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/index.html[/url]? Can you say STAGE 4? Check this video out (600+ HP): [url="http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/video/R32/EIP_R32_600_HP_0001.wmv"]http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/video/R32/EIP_R32_600_HP_0001.wmv[/url] (14.7MB). -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlebar Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Thanks everyone. I like the "sleeper" aspect of both these cars. I imagine insurence would be much cheeper on the legacy than an r32 or an evo or sti. p.s. My dad has a 2002 S4 avant(wagon) and the legacy gt felt preaty even in terms of performance. thanks again. Handlebar [size=2][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handlebar Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 [size=2]Yes i have seen that 600hp r32[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2] i lurk on the r32 forum at vw vortex ocassionally.....[/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size] [size=2][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Well Steve, I think what you should have said that SOME AUDI's are bad news. My Mum has an AUDI 1.8T S-Line and that thing has been bulletproof from day one. My Dad owns a V6 Twin Turbo 2.7 Allroad which again is bulletproof. Granted, some cars in the both the VW and AUDI camps can give ppl problems but I think if you look after it, it will look after YOU. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 [quote name='evolutionmovement']I've worked on lots of VWs and Audis and they are without doubt some of the worst cars I've worked on. It's not just the major engine problems with the 1.8Ts or 2.0s (that VW is ignoring), but the wiring itself is to a worse standard than Kias I've worked on. Ever see a VW older than 6 months with all its lights working? I've had connectors crumble in my hands on cars younger than two years and they seem to love to use the smallest gauge wires they can get away with. It's really too bad as they are good looking cars, but I'd trust my 250k Legacy to drive cross country over any new VW older than a year just to get me across a couple states. Even the new car's warranty would be no comfort as they never seem to help their customers anyway. Oh your oil pump clogged because our pick ups are too small? Hm, you changed the oil at 3k miles and only a quart came out? Yeah, we're aware of those problems. Have a nice day. Steve[/QUOTE] Totally agree Steve, my wife and I bought a four year old Cabrio nine months ago and sold it after 6 months of ownership, list of problems as long as your arm. Oh yeah and according to VW the synthetic auto tranny fluid is good for the LIFE of the transmission i.e. you never have to change it, yeah right :rolleyes: Adam, You guys get the Evo VIII in Aus, we get an earlier version they call the Evo VIII for the USDM. The technology rarely makes it the the US maket intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedMoreBoost Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I have a 05' Legacy GT and my good friend has a R32. When his R32 gets out of the shop, (seriously) :D we'll race. Does that answer any questions about the R Booty 2? I had a 95' VR6 GTi that broke twice month and cost more then my current car payments and insurance ecombined. THIS IS A TRUE STORY. Apparently water got in the engine during heavy rain in NJ and the R32 when back to the dealer on flatbed. We will go to Old Bridge Township Raceway park to race soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JessterCPA Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I had so many problems with my 2001 Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8t, that I will NEVER get a VW again. I got stuck on vacation at the beach, 200 miles from home, with a car that would not start, in an underground garage (that a tow truck could not reach). Oh yeah, after I found out my roadside assistance was no longer in effect (crappy 2yr/24000 mile warranty) I had to pay $55 for AAA. Then there was the whole $550 bill I got from the VW dealer down there because my MAF and TPS went dead. Nice vacation. Now I have an Acura & a Subaru. I do not expect these types of problems anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolutionmovement Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 To swap batteries in the POS's you have to constantly supply power or the ECu shuts down and needs to be reset. I've worked on lots of cars, but have never heard of so many issues from anything else ... well, maybe Yugos, but I never actually dealt with them personally or knew anyone with one. Of the dozens of VWs I've worked on or heard about from acquaintances I've heard of two that were trouble free not including what was said on this board. When Toyota had premature engine failure issues put down to owners' infrequent oil changes, they paid for the engines anyway. VW has huge logs of complaints and ignores them. Somehow they wonder why sales are falling off a cliff. It's not all old product. Sorry to turn into a VW bash, I'm sure the R32 is fun when it runs. Hm, I like the wheels. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der5er Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 [quote name='evolutionmovement']To swap batteries in the POS's you have to constantly supply power or the ECu shuts down and needs to be reset. [/QUOTE] I'm not sure I follow - I've disconnected the battery of my wife's Golf (to clear out a bogus CEL) and I've had no such problems. [quote name='evolutionmovement']I've worked on lots of cars, but have never heard of so many issues from anything else ... well, maybe Yugos, but I never actually dealt with them personally or knew anyone with one. Of the dozens of VWs I've worked on or heard about from acquaintances I've heard of two that were trouble free not including what was said on this board.[/QUOTE] I don't have the slightest intention of questioning your experience, but I have a hard time accepting VWs are as bad as you describe them. In Europe the cars are quite appreciated and don't seem to have as many reliability issues. Perhaps the explanation is in how the cars are cared for - and I'll grant you that VW could be less fragile in this respect. My family has owned about 5 VWs, of different classes (Passats and Golfs) and of different vintages (from 80s to 00s). Needless to say, we haven't had any problems with either of these cars and neither was a garage queen. On the other hand, a cow-orker had a 01 GTi and ran it into the ground in less than 2 years. The manner in which he operated that vehicle made me think it wasn't necessarily the car/build quality at fault. [quote name='evolutionmovement']Somehow they wonder why sales are falling off a cliff. It's not all old product. Sorry to turn into a VW bash, I'm sure the R32 is fun when it runs. Hm, I like the wheels.[/QUOTE] I'm quite sure it is the age of their products. The design of the Mk IV Golf/Jetta was old before its conception even and the Passat is simply an old car. Pair this with destitute engines, high prices for the class, the relative inability of Audis to retain value (and hence people opting for used Audis in favor of new VWs) and it's quite easily to explain VW's market situation. Over in Europe, they offer too many alike products that cannibalize each other - most often people will buy the brand that they perceive as "national" - Seat in Spain, Skoda in CZ/former Eastern block and so on - VW the brand is losing appeal. As a group, I suspect they're doing reasonably well, although I haven't looked at the numbers lately. I apologize for the lengthy post, I thought some bias of my own was needed to restore the balance. :-) Dragos Steve[/QUOTE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Gumby, the only drama with the JDM versions of hot cars we get here, 9 times out of 10 they are DETUNED but the European cars, we get full wack. Just dont get the policies here. Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Adam, But the Kiwis usually get the JDM versions correct? Forgot to say I had a '87 GTi back in the day, bought it when it was 4 years old and drove it for 2 more years, didn't have a problem with it. What has happened to VW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 i'm consistent with my speed fascination. i think the R32 is underwhelming for what it is. maybe i missed the whole point of the car, but it's cheap for an audi but expensive for a VW. and it's slow. can you imagine a 3400 pound golf? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha --no surprise it's from the same people who sell the underwhelming S4. it's embarassing to have that R designation and have a family sedan outperform it; i know for a fact that my STi ate the R32 for lunch and we're not just talking about straight lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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