Repsak Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Got the stuff at work, its cool i guess, I dont think i'd ever buy it, but if they do what it says Im sure it'll be good in the long run. and I got cool little Nitro-Filled chrome caps...blingbling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. pepper Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 the nitro caps are green up here in MA, I thought that was the universal cap for a nitrogen filled tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undert0e Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 what is the perk of having nitro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. pepper Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I'm an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 nitrogen is a noncombustile gas, unlike Oxygen, so if you have a blowout, it won't be as dangerous. There are other bonuses, I just can't remember them. That's utter non-sense ... most tires are filled with ... Air. Plain old air. Which is all around your car anyway. Air is made up primarily of ... Nitrogen ... about 78%. There might be other advantages, but fire isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Nitrogen filling your tires makes no difference whatsoever. It is all BS. Completely. I'm a chemist, look at your basic gas laws and convince yourself. BTW, oxygen is NOT combustable ("noncombustile?"). Look that up too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTsullyman Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 From what I have been told it has to do with the size of the different air molecules in the air you put in. Because it’s made up of all different stuff you will loose pressure over time because some of the air can fit through the tire material. So basically you have all nitrogen and it’s not supposed to leak. How much truth there is to this im not sure but some big companies do it for free now so there must be some real truth to behind a benefit. 2007 DGM LGT 2003 Suzuki SV650S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 From what I have been told it has to do with the size of the different air molecules in the air you put in. Because it’s made up of all different stuff you will loose pressure over time because some of the air can fit through the tire material. So basically you have all nitrogen and it’s not supposed to leak. How much truth there is to this im not sure but some big companies do it for free now so there must be some real truth to behind a benefit. Again, ZERO truth. Oxygen and nitrogen are EXACTLY the same size. Look it up. There is so much misinformation on the net it is unbelievable. Everybody should take a year of chemistry in college - the lack of basic understanding of science in america really shines on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTsullyman Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Nitrogen filling your tires makes no difference whatsoever. It is all BS. Completely. I'm a chemist, look at your basic gas laws and convince yourself. BTW, oxygen is NOT combustable ("noncombustile?"). Look that up too! Seems that as a chemist you should have said somethign about this. It does have to do with the size of the element. YOu must not be a good chemist. HA HA http://www.getnitrogen.org/why/index.php 2007 DGM LGT 2003 Suzuki SV650S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTsullyman Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Yeah im an engineer so ive taken my year of chem and look at the table of elements stupid. There is a difference is size and it must be enough that it correlates with the permeability of the tire compound when the molucles combine. You might no chemistry but like most people that are like you have no practical application of your knowledge. Bow down to the engineers. 2007 DGM LGT 2003 Suzuki SV650S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Seems that as a chemist you should have said somethign about this. It does have to do with the size of the element. YOu must not be a good chemist. HA HA http://www.getnitrogen.org/why/index.php I'm going to back tantal on this. If what they're sayin on that site were true ... and nitrogen makes up 78% of air (which I agree) and Nitrogen is the largest molecule ... then let's say you lose 1.5 psi in a month. If nitrogen takes 6 months to lose 1.5 psi, then that would indicate most of the 1.5 PSI remaining in the tire is nitrogen since the water vapor (which is somehow smaller than a nitrogen molecule???) and oxygen are what's escaping. You refill your tires which are now a larger concentration of nitrogen with more "air." Now you have let's say 85% nitrogen and 15% air ... of which 78% is still nitrogen ... Well, you should get the picture. After a few months you'll be running 95% or higher nitrogen and yet they're claiming that somehow you're going to continue to lose air at a higher rate. It's all BS and as to their other benefits, the outside of the tire is still in contact with oxygen. Heating cycles from driving will make your tires more brittle than the oxidization they're claiming will be a problem, and your tires will last longer than that process anyway. Unless you're parking your car and not driving it for 5 years ... this is also a moot point. That site is only there to peddle nitrogen for an industry who stands to make money on it. But feel free to buy the snake-oil if it makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coelli Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I seem to recall, from the little brochure from Costco a few years ago, that it said nitrogen is not as susceptible to expansion and contraction from temperature changes. *shrug* -Coelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTsullyman Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/FordBaldwinResearchRaper.pdf 2007 DGM LGT 2003 Suzuki SV650S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I seem to recall, from the little brochure from Costco a few years ago, that it said nitrogen is not as susceptible to expansion and contraction from temperature changes. *shrug* -Coelli And this is why I get so annoyed by this. Would you rather believe Costco or a guy you don't know from Adam who says he has a Ph.D. in chemistry? Misinformation is dangerous and I try to fight it when possible. This nitrogen thing is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Yeah im an engineer so ive taken my year of chem and look at the table of elements stupid. There is a difference is size and it must be enough that it correlates with the permeability of the tire compound when the molucles combine. You might no chemistry but like most people that are like you have no practical application of your knowledge. Bow down to the engineers. Nitrogen is Element 7, Oxygen is 8. The periodic table of elements doesn't help you here. Watch who you're calling stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I seem to recall, from the little brochure from Costco a few years ago, that it said nitrogen is not as susceptible to expansion and contraction from temperature changes. *shrug* -Coelli That makes no sense ... Nitrogen makes up 78% of air. Why would the properties of air be significantly different than that of nitrogen? Don't listen to the guy who sells tires and 5 gallon jugs of Mayo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Yeah im an engineer so ive taken my year of chem and look at the table of elements stupid. There is a difference is size and it must be enough that it correlates with the permeability of the tire compound when the molucles combine. You might no chemistry but like most people that are like you have no practical application of your knowledge. Bow down to the engineers. OK stupid. Believe what you want. Whats the diff in atomic radius? Whats the difference in the molecular radius? How is it measured and what is the uncertainty? How would the size of the molecule - which is less than 1 nm (thats 10e-9 m) have anything at all to do with the basic gas law, PV=nRT? Believe what you want. if you don't no (sic.) chemistry, dont get pissed off at me and call me stupid. btw, I have scaled up three totally separate processes from laboratory invention in my hands to commercial plant, in conjunction with a team of other chemists, engineers, operators, an attorney here and there, and of course, plant supervisors and finance guys. In one case it was for a multimillion dollar yearly business. Care to make any other accusations that you have no reason to make? I dont see anyone making assumptions about you and insulting you based on their assumptions. bow down yourself ass. OK, final quiz question: What is the volume occupied by one mole of pure nitrogen gas at sea level and a temperature of 300 K? Now, what is the volume occupied by one mole of pure oxygen gas at sea level and a temperature of 300 K? the volume of an 80/20 mixture? Bonus question: What is a mole? You can solve this proplem with a calculator. If you're educated, it will take you less than 1 sec. If you are not, but are smart, it will take you maybe 10 min to find the info in your chem book. Of course, if you are an arrogant ass who thinks he knows everything and got an education from a Costco flyer but actually knows very little, this question will take you about 13.8 hrs searching for the answer in the ailes of costco, walmart, and finally the internet where Rajib the tire guru will tell you the very complex, 10 web page filling answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 And do you really trust a site stating this as a selling point? http://burnedimage.afraid.org/temp/nascar-nitrogen.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 And do you really trust a site stating this as a selling point? http://burnedimage.afraid.org/temp/nascar-nitrogen.jpg LOL the truth comes out. There actually is a reason for this, and it is true, one is able to more accurately calculate tire pressures using pure nitrogen rather than air. Anyone care to guess at the answer - it's simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 OK, final quiz question: What is the volume occupied by one mole of pure nitrogen gas at sea level and a temperature of 300 K? Now, what is the volume occupied by one mole of pure oxygen gas at sea level and a temperature of 300 K? the volume of an 80/20 mixture? Bonus question: What is a mole? You can solve this proplem with a calculator. If you're educated, it will take you less than 1 sec. If you are not, but are smart, it will take you maybe 10 min to find the info in your chem book. I'm educated, but sucked at Chemistry ... and being that Chemistry was my only weak point in college ... I'm going to defer any effort on answering this question. I actually wish you hadn't even re-introduced the term "mole" to my vocabulary again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I would guess that the composition of air will vary with altitude, humidity, and other minor variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coelli Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 And this is why I get so annoyed by this. Would you rather believe Costco or a guy you don't know from Adam who says he has a Ph.D. in chemistry? Misinformation is dangerous and I try to fight it when possible. This nitrogen thing is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard in my life. Did I say I believed it? I'm relaying what I read in the brochure. I'm in marketing. I treat everything with skepticism. -Coelli (whose tires are filled with air.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougeben83 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 LOL the truth comes out. There actually is a reason for this, and it is true, one is able to more accurately calculate tire pressures using pure nitrogen rather than air. Anyone care to guess at the answer - it's simple. You got one element vs. a mixed bag of stuff floating around in your tire; the one with only one element's physical attributes will be more easily predicatable vs. plotting each element in air and their contribution based on their partial pressures...I think (sorry, only BA in Biochem here...). Anyway, I've heard some more outrageous claims about nitrogen filling (it's lighter than air so you save gas mileage!, etc.)...drag racers have been using the stuff for years though because the tire pressures tend to be more consistent between runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr. pepper Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 still an idiot. Just now realizing why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZinFreak Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 OK, calibrate me here... I'm a Mechanical/Aerospace Engineer and Computer Scientist. Dry Air Composition N2 - 78% O2 - 20% Other stuff like argon - 2% N2 and O2 are both diatomic molecules so gamma ~1.4, so specific heat (heat diffusion) should be almost the identical. It isn't heat dissapation. The N2 and O2 molecules should be almost identical in effective diameter. Won't matter one wit for permeability of rubber. To fill tires with N2 all you need is a dewer (tank) of liquid N2. No compressor and no air dryer are needed. That is you wouldn't want to compress ambient air (it has water in the form of humidity) then put this in the tire. You'd get condensation. You don't want moisture in the tire. It think this all comes down to convenience for the service station. And of course the ability to rip off patrons who think N2 is something special. -Zin 06 LGT LTD GRP 5MT 07 FXT LTD OBP 4EAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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