Boulderguy Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Does anyone have experience with both the Cobb & Cusco rear sways & can contrast the two? Specifically wondering about the difference in stiffness - isn't the Cobb hollow? Is the Cusco? I'm aware the Cobb smacks the control arm, I'm presuming they'll get that fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Cobb does smack, but is being redesigned. Cusco is solid, Cobb not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Once COBBs RSB is fixed I votre for COBB. It weighs less, and is adjustable. Also on the stiffest setting it is a little bit stiffer then CUSCOs. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 CUSCO's bar is a good bar though! Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 How do you really know it's stiffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 How do you really know it's stiffer? I tried searching, but couldn't find the site I used. Anyways, the site listed hollow sways and how stiff they are vs solid ones. I then compared that to the % diff of the COBB bar from stiff to soft. I then compared that to the CUSCO bar. I believe the CUSCO (gold ones) adj ones (ones the Keefe has) where a bit stiffer on the stiff setting, but they are no longer available anymore. Other then that, the COBB bar is stiffer then the Whiteline one, and I am fairly certain it is stiffer then the new AVO one. I believe the Perrin one may be stiffer though, but that might have changes since they do no have the 3 hole design anymore. Confused yet? Want a bar for the factory suspension? Get the JDM or AVO. Want a nice matched set get COBB or CUSCO. That is my opinion. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I see. It's interesting what you are saying because Saul_Good in my thread about Bilsteins causing understeer (http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=723444&postcount=16) is saying that Cusco set with Bilstein+Pinks is neutral/oversteerish. You are saying that Bilsteins + Cobb set is till understeerish. I wonder if Pinks make differenece, I guess they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted August 19, 2006 Author Share Posted August 19, 2006 I have the Perrin F & R bars. I drove another member's car with Cobb bars & it was much flatter in turns than mine, which makes me think the Cobb bars must be stiffer. I have the perrin bars on medium rear, soft front, he had his at soft all around. Is there any research comparing the stiffness of various bars out there? Or anyone who's tried multiple bars & can compare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 It started as an Outback... Now it's some kind of perverted hybrid Legacy - I switched to Tokicos & Ions, so it sits like a slightly lowered LGT wagon. I presume I'd have the same clunk issues y'all have with the Cobb bars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 are you still on the lift blocks? side note...the Cusco doesn't position the endlinks in a 100% correct way. I had a talk with Christian at Cobb about this and they've tried to get this done right and offer adjustability (hopefully with no clunk the next time around). Cobb makes a bracket for the STI that allows for fine tuning of the mount to preserve proper positioning...with enough interest, I'm sure they might get one done for the LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 PGT, could you elaborate more on Cusco not positioning endlinks correctly? I want to get better bars, but now I am torn between Cusco and Cobb. Now I am leaning towards waiting for Cobb solving all these problems. Apparently it's not just the rear clunk but also front being too short. Why noone can get really good bars for LGT with no issues. I read Perrin suck, Cobb clunk, Cusco move latterally in bushings.... apparently there are no complains regarding Whiteline. Perhaps I need to research those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Gregor - Whiteline had problems too.....fixed now (as with Perrin and soon to be Cobb). Here's the position of the Cusco (should be vertical) - two different installs: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/Cusco3.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/Cusco.jpg first gen Cobb (close to vertical): http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/cobbbar.jpg first gen Perrin (diff picture angle....though seems properly positioned with respect to the endlinks): http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/pic2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Unclemat - evidently the Cobb bars move laterally up front as well. It can be remedied with a pair of locking collars but clearly all these products need some re-engineering. My thinking now is that the Cobb bar is stiffer than the others - since hollow - and might be worth the wait. Regardless, I'm less than happy with the Perrin bars. Squeek, clunk, soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Hey guys, thanks for your responses. Seems odd they cannot get bars right... Yeah I like the fact Cobb is hollow (= weighs less). I am gonna finish playing with the suspension firts. Have pinks and specb springs to put on my JDM GT Bilsteins, once I decide on what I like the best, I'll look for the bars then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 jsalicru has opined that the Cobb's aren't stiff enough for those on coilovers. I know with Cusco Zero-2 and then adding the Cusco RSB on my car, the swaybar made no difference (8k/8k springs). I can tell the difference with my current setup with STi pinks however. Oh...good walkthrough with pics of the Cobb STi swaybar mount...shows how proper endlink position can be preserved (not directly applicable to our suspension since it's multilink, but you get the idea). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 jsalicru has opined that the Cobb's aren't stiff enough for those on coilovers. I know with Cusco Zero-2 and then adding the Cusco RSB on my car, the swaybar made no difference (8k/8k springs). I can tell the difference with my current setup with STi pinks however. Oh...good walkthrough with pics of the Cobb STi swaybar mount...shows how proper endlink position can be preserved (not directly applicable to our suspension since it's multilink, but you get the idea). Nice. WTF, Cobb can ask the same guy who did it for STI, spend some time and do it right for LGT... So what is stiffer Cusco rsb or Cobb rsb on stiff setting? Seems like people are voicing contradicting opinions. I guess that's subjective plus depends on suspension. One guy says he runs Bilstein, Pinks and Cuscos and can rotate car well, another says he has Bilsteins and Cobb and the car is still quite understeerish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Well...FWIW....that's the discussion we had...whether there's a need for a piece like that for the LGT. I said 'yes!' 100% chance. Guess that thinking was that more STi owners than LGT owners track their cars so it wasn't as critical. Cost is like $150 I think....not cheap, but doing it right rarely is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub strong Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 So what is stiffer Cusco rsb or Cobb rsb on stiff setting? Seems like people are voicing contradicting opinions. I guess that's subjective plus depends on suspension. One guy says he runs Bilstein, Pinks and Cuscos and can rotate car well, another says he has Bilsteins and Cobb and the car is still quite understeerish. Ditto :icon_conf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulderguy Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 OK, did some homework - Question :What's the difference between a hollow (tubular) anti-sway bar and a solid one? How can I figure out which one is more firm? Answer :The stiffness of any torsion bar (and that's what an anti-roll bar is) can be approximated using this equation: K = 1,178,000 x (D4 / LA2) Where K = bar rate in lbs/inch D4 = diameter of the bar, raised to the 4th power, measured in inches L = center length of the bar, measured in inches A2 = lever arm length, squared, measured in inches and 1,178,000 is the rigidity modulus constant When you are working with solid bars, D= the outside diameter (O.D.) of the bar. When you are working with hollow bars, D = the wall thickness of the tubing, NOT the O.D. of the bar. So, if company "A" offers a 28mm. hollow bar for your car, and NEUSPEED offers a 28mm solid bar for your car, the solid bar will have the higher rate if the lever arm and center lengths are held constant. Do the math before purchasing a hollow bar. It may be lighter, but it's not as stiff as a solid bar if the O.D.'s are the same. The stiffness of an anti-roll bar may also be calculated based on the torque force required to deflect the lever arm by 1 degree. The mathematical formula is different, and the unit of measure is Inch-pounds per Degree. From here - http://www.neuspeed.com/faq/faq_view.asp?id=10<ype=ns_euro And from whiteline, a more scientific paper. Net result - The solid bar will be torsionally stronger given that everything else is the same (contact points, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 OK, did some homework - And from whiteline, a more scientific paper. Net result - The solid bar will be torsionally stronger given that everything else is the same (contact points, etc). Absolutely correct, but the difference is not as much as one might guess. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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