it's hot: let's talk about winter tires

[matt]

Mwiener2, have you used the M3s in warm weather much? Up to around 70-80 degrees. I'd really like to know how they hold up. I'm trying to decide between the M3/3D (the 3D is the M3's successor) and the Nokian WR.

 

All of the formal winter tire tests I've read, even of performance winter tires, only tested dry weather performance in the cold. That's fine for, say, New England, but I need a tire that'll work well in the bay area and on trips down to socal in addition to in the cold & snow around Lake Tahoe. I know that's a tall order for one set of tires, but better some compromise than changing tires every weekend during ski season!

 

From what I've read it's pretty clear that the M3 is better in the snow and ice while the WR is better in the dry. Okay, no big suprises there, since the M3 is sold as an actual snow tire while the WR is sold as an all season. But I don't have a feel for how big the tradeoffs are on each side, especially in warm weather. I'm sure I can get by fine in the mountains even with WRs, but I'm willing to give up some of their dry/warm weather performance for the M3's better snow capabilities *if* the tradeoff isn't too big. Plus the M3 is cheaper

[rjundi]

Many great points on the Nokian WR.

 

However one downfall especially if you use as a winter tire (I have a used set on my WRX, <50% worn) is that ice traction is nothing special. Better than an all-season but does not touch a decent winter tire where this traction is oh so important.

[mwiener2]

Any dedicated winter tire is going to be rated for <60 degrees. Once you start going above 60, the rubber is going to get really soft. If you plan on making roadtrips like that with those kinds of temperature swings, you're probably going to need an all season tire. A winter tire in 80 degree conditions wil just wear super fast and be really soft.

 

 

I had a pretty interesting once in a lifetime experiance with my M3's last spring. I had ordered my new summer wheels and tires but they got delayed in shipping. So I had my first autocross of the season on a sunday. The summer wheels and tires were at the UPS shipping center, but they wouldn't let me get them on a sunday. I had also hit a pothole just the right way and put bubbles in my two left M3's, so they were trash. Since I was gonna toss them anyways, why not autocross on them in 70 degree weather.

 

I got 4 runs in before I got kicked off the course for having damaged tires. The M3's did very well in the autocross. It was my first race too.

 

video of race: [ame=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3240103763259158047&q=mwiener2]Autocross[/ame]

[praedet]

I have yet to see a test saying that the M3 is better than the WR in the snow...

[krzyss]

I think Auto, Motor und Sport did such test.

ADAC too.

 

Check this:

 

http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentests/Winterreifen/205-55-R16-HT-2004-10/tab.asp?

 

Krzys

 

PS Now if somebody can translate it.

[ilh]

The M3 and WR tied with ice (Eis) and the M3 won on snow (Schnee) in that test.

 

I'll probably end up with the 3D in 205/50R17.

 

--Lee

[pillboy]

Anybody have any experience with Yokahama Ice Guards? I have never had a Yokahama tire of any kind. Thanks.

[jarrod]

$140 a tire sound about right for Nokian WR's in stock size?

[pdw]

$140 a tire sound about right for Nokian WR's in stock size?

 

yes

[rjundi]

$140 a tire sound about right for Nokian WR's in stock size?

 

Is that installed price or just for tire itself?

[Jair]

Anyone running 18's for winter?

 

Been having a hard time finding many tires that will fit the 07 Spec B for winter and going down to a 17 rim isn't an option, since the stock rims are for my winter tires, have another set of 18's for the summer.

 

Here in Alaska where there is as much Ice as Snow, studs are pretty useful, I ran blizzaks on my wrx up here for years and had no real issues other then really icy days.

 

Evan

[Garandman]

The M3 and WR tied with ice (Eis) and the M3 won on snow (Schnee) in that test.

 

I'll probably end up with the 3D in 205/50R17.

 

--Lee

They tested the WR in 2005 as well in size 195/65r15 - against the Dunlop 3D.

http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentests/Winterreifen/195_65_R15_T_10_2005/tab.asp?ComponentID=127019&SourcePageID=127155

[Guest]

Anyone running 18's for winter?

 

Been having a hard time finding many tires that will fit the 07 Spec B for winter and going down to a 17 rim isn't an option, since the stock rims are for my winter tires, have another set of 18's for the summer.

 

Here in Alaska where there is as much Ice as Snow, studs are pretty useful, I ran blizzaks on my wrx up here for years and had no real issues other then really icy days.

 

Evan

 

Sell the stock wheels, they will fetch easy $1000, for which you can buy a nice set of 17". 18" don't make sense for winter.

 

Look into 04 STI BBS wheels... nice forged wheel, will clear Brembos, too. Much lighther than Spec B wheels.

[Gator GT]

Jair...I agree with unclemat. Pretty much what I was going to say. Sell stockers and get 17s. Run the similar assembled height as the OEM Spec B, which means you'll get a slightly narrower tire and more sidewall height.

 

205/50-R17 is about 0.5" shorter than B height and that size is available for the RSi. You'll get better sidewall than regular GTs if they run their stock size. And thats better than getting 17s and running GT assembled height of 215/45-R17, which is 1" shorter than OEM B height.

 

Thats what I plan on doing. Got a set of 05 LGT rims in storage waiting for winters...

 

Any more info on the Gislaved NF 3?

[jarrod]

Is that installed price or just for tire itself?

 

tire itself

[Vimy101]

Sell the stock wheels, they will fetch easy $1000, for which you can buy a nice set of 17". 18" don't make sense for winter.

 

Look into 04 STI BBS wheels... nice forged wheel, we'll clear Brembos, too. Much lighther than Spec B wheels.

 

IMHO, it depends upon what you're looking for in a wheel. I want decent durability as I put on a lot of miles here in Chicagoland where, depending upon the time of year, potholes sprout like dandelions in the spring.

[SubiGT]

I just got a set of 18x7.5 Enkie RPM2's with 225/40-18 Kumho Ecsta SPT's for my summer rubber, and am looking into dedicated winter rubber for the stock 17's. What does anyone think about Blizzak WS-50's in 215/45-17? Tirerack has them for $126ea.

[Jair]

As easy as it sounds going down to 17's are a bit tougher up here, limited market for my rims as its Alaska and not to many folks runs 18's on their Suby's up here.

 

There are a few non studded choices out there, Blizzaks, Dunlops and Nokians, one of which I will go with if my deal to get some Hakka 4's falls through. Studs are pretty popular just not many 18 studded tires, but Nokian announced the Hakka 4's this year with their new square studs, just hard to get unless you special order from Finland.

 

Just going to use the stock 18's for winter and the GC 10's for summer rubber.

 

Evan

[matt]

An Outback XT on winter tires at an autocross - good stuff!

 

Between your testimony and more reviews/feedback I've found I'm pretty set on 205/50-VR17 3Ds now. Unlike the M3s Dunlop doesn't make them in 215/45-17, so it's either that or 225/45-VR17 (there's also H-rated ones in that size), and I think the 205 width makes more sense than 225 for winter tires. Plus the 205s are cheaper.

[rallysquirrel]

I sold my SpecB rims locally just yesterday. I also bought Prodrive 17" from a friend for $350 2 days ago. Looking at Nokian RSi's 225/50R17 to put on the prodrives. I know they're a little taller than stock specB by .3"

[Garandman]

I just got a set of 18x7.5 Enkie RPM2's with 225/40-18 Kumho Ecsta SPT's for my summer rubber, and am looking into dedicated winter rubber for the stock 17's. What does anyone think about Blizzak WS-50's in 215/45-17? Tirerack has them for $126ea.

 

WS-50's are one of the Blizzaks that have a different tread compound for the outer 55%, then the remaining tread is conventional. It's no longer considered in the top tier from reviews I've seen. I'd check out the Michelin X-Ice , available online and at many shops locally as well as Costco and Sam's Club.

 

That said, I just bought a set of near-new WS-50's on 16" steel rims for my sister-in-law's 2001 Outback off Craigslist. $300 FTW.

[SubiGT]

I've always wondered what the benefit is for those dual compound tires. Any insight out there? I would rather just have a pure winter set. They will last me 5 or 6 seasons, probably.

[Vimy101]

I've always wondered what the benefit is for those dual compound tires. Any insight out there? I would rather just have a pure winter set. They will last me 5 or 6 seasons, probably.

 

If you live in Chicagoland, the dual compound tires will and should come in handy. A pure winter tire will generally compromise performance around here, IMHO. Of course, tires are all about some kind of compromise for your average enthusiast driver. My winter tires will be the ContiExtreme W rated. I figure to get 4 seasons out of them. The summer OEM tires which I really like have one or maybe two left on them.

 

Then there are those who would run 3 doughnuts if they had 'em. Then there is factory support racing.

 

Chicagoland is 80+ miles long and 40+ miles wide.

[Garandman]

I've always wondered what the benefit is for those dual compound tires. Any insight out there? I would rather just have a pure winter set. They will last me 5 or 6 seasons, probably.

 

You mean tires like the Blizzak with winter compound on the outside, or some of the new A/S's that have several different compounds in the tread - like the Goodyear "TripleTred."

 

When the tread is worn down that much, the tire is unlikely to be effective in snow anyway. I'd guess it was a manufacturing issue. This is just as true for the Nokians or even some other Blizzaks. But those tires are easier to sell used, when they're down to 1/2 tread depth and not really effective on snow or ice anymore.

 

Most bargain hunters don't bring a tread depth gage. I looked at some used Hakka 2's last winter and they looked good - but only had 5/32nd tread. Nonetheless they sold quickly.

[SubiGT]

Yeah, I was refering to an outer winter compound that wears into an AS compound over time. Is it pretty much a given that a winter tire is shot after about 55% tread is gone? Are there awesome winter tires that go all the way to the wear bars?

I'm new to the whole AWD end of things. My Jeep runs 33" Goodyear MTR's, so I just drop those puppies down to 10psi and go wherever I want in the snow:)