best coilovers

[caramall2]

I haven't installed yet, but I bought some extra springs and am going to try an MR type (actually they're the GPMoto made by HDS...can't get now) setup with softer springs--5 in front, 6 or 7 in rear. I think this will get me coilover adjustability with a gentler ride, depending on if I can adjust dampening enough. But what do I know. (I also want to retain stock height which I can do with this set up.)

 

Anyone try MRs with softer springs?

[robsontuning]

DMS MSI on here sells them.

[PGT]

MSI actually

[MacLGT-B]

I'm looking for the best coilovers for my outback xt..

where is the best place to get them..

 

Got these on my car car and I love them...

 

JIC/FLT-A2 High Performance Coilover System

http://www.jic-magic.com/ViewProduct1.aspx?ProductID=33&CarModelID=109&CarMakeID=9

 

 

[url=http://www.jic-magic.com/ViewProduct1.aspx?ProductID=33&CarModelID=109&CarMakeID=9][/url]

[Saul_Good]

http://www.ipdusa.com/ProductsCat.aspx?CategoryID=1765&NodeID=5455&RootID=1414 These guys still carry the GP Moto Coilovers

[moviemadness]

if all coilover systems are adjustable and all, wouldn't they be able to be calibrated to feel the same?

[driggity]

if all coilover systems are adjustable and all, wouldn't they be able to be calibrated to feel the same?

 

No. The biggest difference is damping and even if you have adjustable damping you can't adjust every point on the damping curve exactly as you like. I guess you could theoretically get one coilover revalved to "match" another, but even then unless the mechanism that control the damping is the same it probably won't react the same in all circumstances.

[moviemadness]

dampening means what?

the rate at which the springs squash down?

or the rate at which you feel the force of the bump?

sorry, total newbie on suspension.

please guide me~

[j0ebert]

It also depends if they are a mono-tube or twin-tube design.

 

Here is a pretty good resource about dampening and suspension in general: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-suspension1.htm.

[Xenonk]

Hi Xenonk...I got a question though, I'm sold my tein basic lately and planning to get a diff. setup for next summer, now I'm looking between tein flex and KW V.2...between them, what would you suggest? I would track my car and use it on a daily basis (plus having 4 person onboard occasionally)

 

not that the tein basic was bad, but sometimes the ride feel is a bit too hard(on streets); yet not hard enough when I'm on track

 

any inputs will be appreciated

 

alan

 

I dont look too kindly on Tein products, more so towards their street setups and typical stand-alone springs.. their race line-up is what they are known for and that's what I would get if I had to make a choice to go with Tein. I think they are short on the R&D when it comes to the street level suspension parts, but that's just my opinion as it's not fitting for street and it's not fitting for track use, so where do their street products really aim for? Basically for a market for visual appeal at a competitive price. They are smart to aim for this market to make money, afterall, it's business. No one said they had to put performance as priority to meet sales.

 

K&W is more of the preference for me as it's more suitable for the typical buyer that doesnt need to get into all the setup detail, especially if it's just for daily driving.

[Xenonk]

if all coilover systems are adjustable and all, wouldn't they be able to be calibrated to feel the same?

 

that's too general of a term.. the idea may be the same, but the details in each manufacturer and their product is different. That's the same way as saying tires are all the same right? Of course not, just because a tire holds air, gets mounted on a wheel, and rolls, it should all feel the same and act the same? Of course not. There's all sorts of tires to fit the needs of the conditions.

 

So in your specific case, you dont go buy race coilovers if you are only going to drive on the street, and you certainly don't want to buy street coilovers for a rally race car. The way the valving, spring rates, different adjustments such as camber plates, ride height adjustments and ranges, spring preloads, the design of a normal strut versus an inverted monotube strut, and many MANY other factors come into play to make the car handle different.

 

Heck, just adjusting the shock's rebounding dampening adjustment will make the car handle differently already. You will have some overlap from company to company even if you try to calibrate each coilover to be the same, but that window to match from a Tein to a Zeal to a Ksport to a Buddy Club to an HKS coilover will all feel different. It's already different enough that each of those coilovers come with different spring rates to begin with, let alone the valving and RANGE of adjustments are all different.. sure they all bolt up to the car, but the coilovers STILL have their own limitation for suspension travel stroke, range of allowable ride height change, etc. Too many variables to even fool me to think if it's one coilover brand to the next.

 

The main idea is buying a coilover that fits YOUR needs and wants and that the coilovers have the range that fits your needs.

[moviemadness]

then how do you know which coilover setup is good for you without trying out every single brand? is their advertised spring rates and design where you look at?

 

for example, if you're an enthusiast driver who likes to drive hard on the street with occasional track use but also don't like damaged kidneys with the bumps on the street, which would be a good brand to choose from and why?

 

or do I just not know enough about suspension to even be at a level to be choosing coilover systems?

[EJ255_alan]

dampening rate...it i remember right this is how they put it: the rate that reflects how fast the shock's piston rod moves under bounce(rod goes into strut) and rebound(rod returns to original positoni)

 

as for tein's product, the S tech spring is completely cosmetic, H tech spring is a bit more practical, basic damper is like...basic, so u don't have to worry about killing your OE struts, gives a pretty solid feeling all around; and other products beyond that are pretty much track use...and the "theme" that some(i think i can even say most) japanese suspension promote is a corner-supportive coilover system, which you need to scarifice ride comfort....on the other hand, european makes tend to compromise the handling a bit and retain more comfort

 

it's true that in reality you can't try out everyone of them, but it's always good to ask if someone has experience with it

 

advertised spring rate maynot help as ride qucality can still be compensated by having a lower dampening rate(assuming it's a adjustable model)...

 

as for that specific example that moviemadness mentioned, IMO any dampening adjustable coilover should be good, b/c even you have a hardering spring to begin with, you can fool around with the dampening rate in order to take come ride quality back when you drive on some crappy downtown roads

 

just my 2 cents

alan

[froggert]

as for that specific example that moviemadness mentioned, IMO any dampening adjustable coilover should be good, b/c even you have a hardering spring to begin with, you can fool around with the dampening rate in order to take come ride quality back when you drive on some crappy downtown roads

 

damping rate isn't usually linear though. there's differences in high and low speed compression (and everything in between) and that's what imo seperates a good and bad design.

[Max Rebo]

well...this is how I see it...springs certain can lower your car for a low price, but the dampening respose would be fast due to the valving setup on the OE strut; example, when some spring-lowered cars run over a smooth bump, you can see the body will take a little more time bouncing before it retuen to stable, and this IMO leads to premature wear and make you get a new set of shocks

 

and w/ coilovers, the dampening response will be slower and harsher as you run over bumps b/c the spring and the shocks has been hardened equally

 

just m holy 2 cents =)

 

alan

 

You have it reversed. Coilovers will have dampers that react faster and more aggressively than the OE dampers because they are matched to the springs. Stiffer springs + OE dampers will produce a ride that is not very well controlled -- the dampers take a longer time to settle the car down and they can't control the motion of the springs as well as a better-matched damper set. This is why you'll see older cars hit bumps and the rear end will bounce for a few seconds afterwards. It means their dampers are toast. That's an extreme case, though.

[MSI]

Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

Digressive and progressive will also react differently as well.

-mark

http://www.dmsnorthamerica.com

[Spinjockey]

damping rate isn't usually linear though. there's differences in high and low speed compression (and everything in between) and that's what imo seperates a good and bad design.

 

 

Seems like this is one of the hardest aspects of coilovers to get information about too!

 

I come from a mountain bike background where it's a HUGE marketing ploy, fortunately they often explain how it's supposed to work (many times showing some dampening curves) so you get a decent idea of how it's made and how it'll really work. I love being able able to independently adjust high speed, low speed, rebound, spring rate, and preload; sometimes height independently as well (though often coupled with spring rate). Rebuilds are pretty easy. However they'd never hold up on car. The point being after a little research it wasn't that hard to see how well they could work (if built well).

[MSI]

Here is an overlay of a tein and a DMS so you can see just how different the characteristics are of various digressive shocks versus progressive shocks. The ability to control the curves is what sets apart a mediocre shock, from a good shock to a great shock as mentioned before.

 

As you can see range and what is being adjusted will also determine what kind of spring is being mated with the valving in the shock (or vice versa)

 

-mark

overlay all settings dms vs tein.pdf

[Xenonk]

then how do you know which coilover setup is good for you without trying out every single brand? is their advertised spring rates and design where you look at?

 

for example, if you're an enthusiast driver who likes to drive hard on the street with occasional track use but also don't like damaged kidneys with the bumps on the street, which would be a good brand to choose from and why?

 

or do I just not know enough about suspension to even be at a level to be choosing coilover systems?

 

 

You read the specs and understand more of what each coilover can do.. it's the same kind of question if you were to ask about tires. You can read up all the reviews you want, but you should talk to a representative that not just sells the product, but they use the product often so they can give you feedback on that one product.

 

You just have to ask the manufacturer the models of coilovers that works best for your situation. HKS I believe has 2 different coilover kits for the GT and Zeal I believe as 2 as well. Cusco has 2 from their company, and of course, all the other companies that make their one-make set. You just have to really get into the detail of what you want the car to do.. if you want to make it oversteer more, look for the coilover that allows more oversteer than the others with the conservative settings. Some companies like JIC design most of their coilovers with road-track in mind, so you lose out on a lot of the comfort of daily driving.

 

You just need to do more research and understand not just what coilovers can do, but what you need out of coilovers to do for you. There's no sense in buying something that you dont know how to use or make the best of it other than the fact of buying for the sake of having them on. Eventually, that will come back to bite you if you are just looking for them to have them. Be very careful of the reviews you read as not everyone (not even myself) is a suspension-dynamics engineer that can tell you exactly what every single detail of information that knows or understands how to put it in Layman's terms to make it practical for us to take advantage of, but what I can tell is the level of experience of where your source is coming from and how well they know how to make progress with the coilovers and knowing how to adjust them to make them perform at will.

[moviemadness]

tires are a different comparison though, because there has to be the tire that has the most dry grip, the tire with the most wet grip, tire wear, road noise.. etc etc..

it's a matter of statistics I guess..

so in that case, there should be something like that with suspension as well..

which setup lowers the car most

which has the most comfortable ride- less bumps felt

which corners the best

and if all of these parameter are way up there, then that one should be considered as the best well rounded product..

 

also, you seem to be the one with a lot of experience on the track, and therefore should know more about suspension than I do, and I assume that you've tried more than one brand and setup..

 

care to tell us what your input is? which did you like the most and why? which did you not like the most and why? what is it that you look for in a suspension setup? and why? thanks!

[Xenonk]

tires are a different comparison though, because there has to be the tire that has the most dry grip, the tire with the most wet grip, tire wear, road noise.. etc etc..

it's a matter of statistics I guess..

so in that case, there should be something like that with suspension as well..

which setup lowers the car most

which has the most comfortable ride- less bumps felt

which corners the best

and if all of these parameter are way up there, then that one should be considered as the best well rounded product..

 

also, you seem to be the one with a lot of experience on the track, and therefore should know more about suspension than I do, and I assume that you've tried more than one brand and setup..

 

care to tell us what your input is? which did you like the most and why? which did you not like the most and why? what is it that you look for in a suspension setup? and why? thanks!

 

and like I said, it's just like tires.. sure you can get a tire that has the most dry grip (and it's called a racing slick or some similar race-compound tire). They wear out as fast as 50 miles of driving.

 

Coilovers also can go that way as well.. you can have the top of the line racing coilover that you should just only trailer the car on public streets and only use it on perfectly good pavement at tracks. They are designed for smooth pavement as they can withstand grip levels and high compression forces.

 

If you want a tire that can do dirt driving, you get one for dirt driving. There's no way you can use a race slick on rough pavement, it's not going to grip. Same goes for coilovers, there's enough types of coilovers out there that you can choose from that is good enough for just street driving, some are just good for looks due to its range adjustment, and some are just meant for track-use only.

 

My point to you is even if you do know which coilover does what, who's to say it's good for YOUR use?? Sure, I can tell you that the best coilover setup is really getting a set of Moton Custom shocks with Custom Swift springs that match each other to give the BEST response setup that REQUIRES you to run racing-slicks to make full advantage of the race track, but what if you never goto the race track? Basically that's a lot of technology and product that you aren't even using.

 

I can sit here and really type up all my experiences with every suspension coilover setup that I have driven, rode in, and even troubleshoot... but I can easily save myself (and yourself as well) a lot of time by just letting you know that it's really based on the driver's preference of what they want the car to do.

 

I have gone through a lot of brands and a lot of different drivers and setting up a car that works for them. In racing, I have had people say "man, the car sucks" but the lap times droppped lower with the new adjustments. In the racing world, no one cares about ride comfort or how the car sucks when it's trying to take in the driver's commands and inputs, but the results show up that it's a faster setup.

 

Then you have the other spectrum, where you have the typical street driver that think they know what they want, they get it, and by then they will either say the coilovers are too soft or too stiff for their use. The 2nd thing that people can say at this point is that they blame the product for not doing what it's suppose to do. That's when it's also the driver's fault for not understanding that you can't drive like you use to in order to take advantage of the new setup. There's also the possibility of the coilovers not installed and setup properly for the use that it was intended. Sure there's a difference between your old setup and your new setup, but the problem is that people don't see themselves as the problem and not understanding what they just changed on the car.

 

My advice is: the more specific you get in what you want out of the car and accomplishing the goals you set forth for the car, the better it will be for you regardless which product you buy to meet those goals. Don't get something for the sake of having it or getting it, especially if it's conflicting the ultimate goal of what it's suppose to do. The only case of a person is fine with getting it is for the the sake of getting it and at that time, you dont need ideas or reasons to justify the purchase, you just buy it cuz you want it.

[EJ255_alan]

hey, i just seen this on ebay lately

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ksport-Coilover-Kit-Subaru-Legacy-05-Springs_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33582QQihZ013QQitemZ230021224762QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

 

just wondering if anyone has experience with these, one of my concerns is that I wonder where are these made in, hopefully not in Vietnam...

 

as far as the spec goes it seems to have a more/better adjustablity than the tein flex...

 

alan

[Xenonk]

I believe there's plenty of vendors here that sell them for just the same, if not less.

[CombatCQB]

When selecting coilovers, does it make sense to start by picking the spring rate you want for your application then finding the coilovers that best handle those spring rates?

 

How would one read a compression/rebound graph to compare to spring rates?

[MSI]

I totally disagree with this. Various manufactures will supply different spring rates to match their type or style of valving. Linear, linear with a helper, linear with a tender, progressive rate, dual progressive rate will all have different configurations when matched to different valving.

 

My suggestion, determine your primary application with the shocks. Your major goal. From that point, work with your vendor to determine what brand of shock best meets your BUDGET and application. From there, taylor the setup to your needs.

 

It is useless to waste time saying you want the best performance money can by, but yet do not want to fork out $$ for it. That's why i say give your vendor a rough idea of what you have in mind for pricing (if you do) and build the setup from there.

 

Spring rates are down at the bottom of the list when configuring setups, as setups vary too much from one application to another.

 

-mark

http://www.dmsnorthamerica.com