rougeben83 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I decided for the sake of comparison, to take pics of my "replica" borlas so everyone can get a good idea what makes these things cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I decided for the sake of comparison, to take pics of my "replica" borlas so everyone can get a good idea what makes these things cheaper. I don't see the "cheap" quotient. Or is this just being "tongue-in-cheek"? SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougeben83 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I don't see the "cheap" quotient. Or is this just being "tongue-in-cheek"? SBT No not really; like I said before, the main difference is that the knockoffs use press bent (you can see slight deformation of the pipe at the bends) vs. mandrel and slightly smaller pipes. I'm guessing these are of a cheaper grade of steel (I think it's still SS though)but thicker to compensate; the flanges along are much thicker than the Borlas I had. On the other hand, the thicker piping is probably the main reason why no one has seen them crack yet. So a little bit of durability to offset a little bit of exhaust flow that is given up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Yes - I see what you mean. Hadn't looked for the lack of mandrel forming/bending in the pictures but it's pretty obvious. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Hey man, where did you buy those and how much were they? '99 Legacy 2.2L 30th. (Stage 1 Exedy clutch, ACT flywheel, Custom Intake, JSPEC Hood, GT-B bumper, 17" SportMax Wheels, Premier DEH-P780MP, 40GB iPod) - Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach_six Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 According to the vendors that are selling OBX headers, they are mandrel bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougeben83 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 According to the vendors that are selling OBX headers, they are mandrel bent. Right; the OBX headers seem to be good pieces according to the NASIOC members that have had them. Again, their based off of the EL design, so I think a lot of what I described the replica borla setup doesn't apply. I lucked out on my set of replicas; $130 shipped new from a guy on rs25 that never installed them and is currently selling his car. I sold my Borla set as well since I saved $$$. The main reason that I went with the borla type vs. EL is because of the CEL light; I didn't want to have to go through the hassle of installing, waiting for the CEl, getting the MIL eliminator/CEL mech fix, then resetting the ECU. Emissions testing here in NY sucks that way. If you don't have emissions testing where you are, I think the EL is better based on performance gains alone. The boxer sound...it gets really distinct with the borlas. EL sort of makes the boxer sound like a regular 4 cylinder, so keep in mind how much you like the sound of your engine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboyjimmy Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 The boxer "sound" or boxer "burble" as most Subaru owners refer to is emphasized by the unequal length exhaust manifold found on all production Subaru vehicles. Unlike a typical inline 4 cylinder engine, the boxer's cylinders are on opposite sides of the motor. Consequently, the exhaust manifold routing takes cylinders 1 and 3 around the front of the engine, while cylinders 2 and 4 join up further along in the exhaust path and just ahead of the collector. Since this generates unequal exhaust "pulses", the exhaust "note" is out of phase and it does sound differently. Change the exhaust manifold to an equal length (EL) header and now you have exhaust pulses that are in phase with each other and it sounds like a typical inline 4 cylinder engine. There are advantages to both, but for my money, I want to keep the stock UL configuration because I love the boxer burble. HTH SBT You got more technical than I did. The main reason that I went with the borla type vs. EL is because of the CEL light; I didn't want to have to go through the hassle of installing, waiting for the CEl, getting the MIL eliminator/CEL mech fix, then resetting the ECU. Emissions testing here in NY sucks that way. If you don't have emissions testing where you are, I think the EL is better based on performance gains alone. The boxer sound...it gets really distinct with the borlas. EL sort of makes the boxer sound like a regular 4 cylinder, so keep in mind how much you like the sound of your engine as well. Yes, that is another thing to consider with the equal length headers. They usually cause your CEL to come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 CEL, shmel, mine came on like 6 times. I'll just keep turning off. Perks of the job! '99 Legacy 2.2L 30th. (Stage 1 Exedy clutch, ACT flywheel, Custom Intake, JSPEC Hood, GT-B bumper, 17" SportMax Wheels, Premier DEH-P780MP, 40GB iPod) - Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MannyLegacy Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I've had a Custom 2.25" exhaust and the Borla Header on my leggy for a couple of years now and LOVE the exhaust note. It is on the louder side but I love turning heads as I come up the street It's definitely Deep & Throaty. Maybe it's due to the Magnaflow muffler?? As for gains, I would have to say that I felt them from Lows to the mids. Not a huge gain, but definitely noticeable. - Manny S. :munch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 Man, where did you get the headlights? I love them! '99 Legacy 2.2L 30th. (Stage 1 Exedy clutch, ACT flywheel, Custom Intake, JSPEC Hood, GT-B bumper, 17" SportMax Wheels, Premier DEH-P780MP, 40GB iPod) - Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MannyLegacy Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Man, where did you get the headlights? I love them! You talkin to me? They're Morrettes. I actually picked them up off of someone on Ebay around a year or so ago for about $180 shipped. They're usually around $600 or so, NOT shipped. I picked up some SPECIAL JDM Projectors that will be goin on very shortly..... - Manny S. P.S. - There is someone on NASIOC, in the Legacy Forum that Is sellin his Morrettes for $400 shipped. You should check it out........ http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14232134#post14232134 :munch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 Oh, i've seen them before. From your avatar, it looks like you have the ones like wrx guys have, the ones that are individual projectors that are open in the front with no lens. I saw a set of the the ones like the attached file go for about $150 last week on eBay. Maybe someday! As for now, I have more important things to worry about than total cosmetics! '99 Legacy 2.2L 30th. (Stage 1 Exedy clutch, ACT flywheel, Custom Intake, JSPEC Hood, GT-B bumper, 17" SportMax Wheels, Premier DEH-P780MP, 40GB iPod) - Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach_six Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Doesn't header wraps take care of the CEL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougeben83 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Doesn't header wraps take care of the CEL? Only for the Borla type headers. The EL design's problem is that it replaces the cat section to begin with; either with a high-flow cat or a resonator (Cobb and OBX respectively). Either way, the 02 sensor will sense p0420 and you'll throw the CEL. Only way to address this is with a mechanical fix (I'm not too fond of the electronic ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiedad Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Get a Borla! Then, go to boxer4racing.com, and get a Stromung catless track pipe, and their cel fixer like me!! sounds awesome!!!! mo powa.....mo betta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboyjimmy Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Lowered my price. Someone get them! Quick! Buy these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Please pardon the interruption, gents. I'm not sure I understand something, here.... Could those of you who are posting regarding the P0420 CEL please go into further detail into why this is coming up? Is it because y'all are earlier-generation, N/A vehicles, and have a different catalytic systems setup than we do as BLs/BPs? I noted that everyone else here, except mach_six, is N/A, and earlier generation. To the best of my understanding, for MY05+ LGTs (BL/BP - with forced-induction), there should be no P0420 thrown - at least not on a "consistent" basis (i.e. it may come up due to vehicle-to-vehicle specific differences, much as the same CEL may or may not [most likely, NOT] be triggered by the replacement of our stock UP with a non-catted UP) - as the header setup would present as a pre-turbo mod, while the P0420 code is typically thrown due to loss of either one or both of the DP/mid-pipe cats. Thanks for clearing this one up for me/us. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboyjimmy Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Please pardon the interruption, gents. I'm not sure I understand something, here.... Could those of you who are posting regarding the P0420 CEL please go into further detail into why this is coming up? Is it because y'all are earlier-generation, N/A vehicles, and have a different catalytic systems setup than we do as BLs/BPs? I noted that everyone else here, except mach_six, is N/A, and earlier generation. To the best of my understanding, for MY05+ LGTs (BL/BP - with forced-induction), there should be no P0420 thrown - at least not on a "consistent" basis (i.e. it may come up due to vehicle-to-vehicle specific differences, much as the same CEL may or may not [most likely, NOT] be triggered by the replacement of our stock UP with a non-catted UP) - as the header setup would present as a pre-turbo mod, while the P0420 code is typically thrown due to loss of either one or both of the DP/mid-pipe cats. Thanks for clearing this one up for me/us. I have the Borla headers on my NA BH. No codes, none what so ever. I think if you get the equal length headers, such as Cobb, it should come with a mid pipe. That mid pipe gets rid of the second catalytic converter that the second O2 is trying to get a reading from. There is a "fix" for the CEL, but that in itself varies by the header itself. The NA engine itself it quite interesting and I wish I had a turbo version, so I can learn a little more about that engine. Being that this is the first Subie I've owned, I've learned quite a lot about the boxer engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougeben83 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Please pardon the interruption, gents. I'm not sure I understand something, here.... Could those of you who are posting regarding the P0420 CEL please go into further detail into why this is coming up? Is it because y'all are earlier-generation, N/A vehicles, and have a different catalytic systems setup than we do as BLs/BPs? I noted that everyone else here, except mach_six, is N/A, and earlier generation. To the best of my understanding, for MY05+ LGTs (BL/BP - with forced-induction), there should be no P0420 thrown - at least not on a "consistent" basis (i.e. it may come up due to vehicle-to-vehicle specific differences, much as the same CEL may or may not [most likely, NOT] be triggered by the replacement of our stock UP with a non-catted UP) - as the header setup would present as a pre-turbo mod, while the P0420 code is typically thrown due to loss of either one or both of the DP/mid-pipe cats. Thanks for clearing this one up for me/us. This is only hearsay as I haven't experienced an CEL yet with my setup (knocks on wood). The Borla design uses larger, longer pipes than the stock Y-pipe. This causes the exhaust gas to cool prematurely, leading to the 2nd 02 sensor reading lower than normal voltage across the 2nd car; that's where the 4020 "cat inefficiency" code pops up. Heat wrap keeps the exhaust gas hot as it winds its way frome header to cats, so no 4020, no CEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiedad Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 My cel for cat inificiency came on b4 i had the headers on, but i did have the catless track pipe on it. BUT i had the o2 sensor fixer already on it. this only happened one time. i had all the codes cleared, and since install of the borla header, i've had NO light come on in over a month!! and it sounds sweet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Interesting stuff, guys! Thanks for the explaination and updates! <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougeben83 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 My cel for cat inificiency came on b4 i had the headers on, but i did have the catless track pipe on it. BUT i had the o2 sensor fixer already on it. this only happened one time. i had all the codes cleared, and since install of the borla header, i've had NO light come on in over a month!! and it sounds sweet!!! Which 02 fix did you choose? The mechanical fix is really only for hi-flo cats, they just relocate the o2 sensor to a different part of exhaust stream (cooler part) to fool it into thinking that regular flow is being achieved. I don't think this would work quite well with a test-pipe. The resistor fix takes out the CEL completely, so you won't know if the o2 sensor is going bad or anything else related to that stupid light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiedad Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I have the PEP CEL fixer, sold by boxer4racing.com. This is also where I purchased the Stromung catless from. So how would I go about checking the 'well being' of the O2 sensor, w/o 'uninstalling' the cel fixer? I no longer have the stock cats, either, so I doubt that removal of the said fixer would do much good, anyways..... Also, I've heard that a bad o2 sensor can rob power, and furthermore, eat(drink?) up to 33% more gas! Any Ideas:confused: ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanders Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I would just replace it if you think there might be a problem. I think they run $125. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.