Subaru announces 2007 spec.B

[WizzD]

I don't think we're haters. I just think we all look for certain things that are available and want to see them put to use. We see the competition and know what is possible. We are loyal to our Subies and just want to see things head in the right direction. To most of us, a 300hp 6-speed tranny is what we have been looking for. Plus, as stated over and over, the 500 Spec B's that were made were sitting on lots impossible to sell. I guess some of us don't see how it can now become a legit player when they couldn't move the 500 they had made.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I have to agree with WizzD here.

 

As a prospective customer for a Legacy this summer/early fall, I am acutely watching the Spec B, and will be also watching the regular Legacy GT.

 

With SOA's recent reply (in a different thread) about how cars are so expensive to build, that they have to wait for demand in order to build something... I am not sure if that is true, butif it is, I think they are missing the point. Besides, they don't sell Legacys that way in Japan, and they do seem to sell well in Japan.

 

half to two-thirds of the 500 06 Spec Bs have sold, by estimate of the Spec B registry thread... And most of them have sold since the first of the year, as Dealers started discounting them to a more sane price point.

 

To repeat the same actions with hopes of a different result is the definition of insane. I hope Subaru sees that, and doesn't paint themselves into a corner, by building a bunch of cars that it then can't sell, and blames it on customer demand.

 

I don't hate Subarus, and I will be buying a Legacy, it is just a matter of whether it is a LGT, or an L-Spec B, at this point, and that is a point that I have always made, which to a point has been answered with 07. The Spec B competes more with it's own model line, the GT, than with other cars in the market outside of subaru. The addition of the 6MT is a measureable help in that area.

 

The remaining problem is the SHEER UNBELIEVABILITY of offering the car in ONLY ONE COLOR COMBO, with a strict standard options list and price.

 

Who does that for more than a special edition limited run? I can see it for the 500 06 Spec Bs, but I still don't think it was necessarily the right move. For 07, with a regular trim line Spec B, it is an even WORSE choice to paint it only one color. It is rumored that there may be more colors, and it had better have more than one color if they hope to sell more than a handful. Because there are plenty of other cars out there, painted all sorts of other colors for customers to buy.

 

People paying for new cars don't like to be dictated options to, at least I don't. I am particular enough that the Legacy platform is just about the only one I am interested in, (AWD, Turbo, manual trans, reliable, comfortable)

but there are plenty of people who will spend their money elsewhere, if Subaru doesn't offer what they want.

 

My criticisms would be almost completely swept away by the following:

 

More than one color, and more colors than just grayscale (silver, dark gray, and black won't cut it. COLOR means COLOR, preferably red and/or blue.)

 

NAV Optional. it may be a worthless device, a cool toy, or an invaluable tool, but I don't need it, and I would rather save the 2k right off the top, and the base price would look more attractive for it.

 

$1 or 2K lower than that would be even better. a Spec B sans nav for 31k? I would not see a problem with that. I would buy that, in a color other than gray.

 

Those are the big ones. Sure, lowered springs, larger rear sway bar, and a computer tune for a few extra rated horsepower over the LGT would be nice... but those are more attainable in the aftermarket than a 6MT/suspension swap into an LGT, or painting a new Spec B another color...

 

This is a free market, if Subaru wants my money, they had better build a product that I want. Otherwise there are other companys that will gladly sell me one of their cars. I may be interested in a LGT Limited otherwise, but there are plenty of people who will mosey on down to the dealers selling the Masdaspeed 6, or Lexus IS, G35, Acura TL/TSX, or any number of other cars, and buy those. From the marketshare numbers, they already ARE buying those other cars. Subaru is not in a position to "hold". They need to concentrate on market growth for sustainability.

 

Subaru can't afford to "wait for demand" to put out new products. They did that with the Tribeca, and it is LATE on the SUV scene, and not selling quite as well as they would hope. The Outback originally didn't wait for demand, it CREATED demand once it was introduced. Subaru needs to take a risk, build someting that is solidly competent and well priced, and well optioned, and then actively SELL the car to people, not wait for buyers for a theoretical, non-existant product, or a product that is too limited for buyers to buy. They'll never come. They'll be too busy buying Audis or Acuras or something else.

[Tide]

But its a Subaru, its not a Honda where the company can afford to make multiple colors of multiple models. Subaru is not a major car manufacturer.

 

By adding additional colors or removing options (nav) you are increasing the cost of the car. To say you want it cheaper but with more options, you're really just running in a circle.

 

Saying if Subaru wants your money, they need to build a car you want is really not looking at the big picture. Look at the T-Shirts I make for the site. Yes the majority are happy with the white shirts, but some want black, others want grey, and 1 or 2 want blue. If I made all of those it'd increase my cost significantly in both production costs, marketing, inventory, and other areas. And its simply not worth my time to do those, the return-on-inventment just isn't there.

 

The spec.B has already proven successful to both Subaru and the fans. To show it they improved and expanded its production. To use the registry as a yardstick is kinda silly, and to pretend you know what all 500 will sell for is even sillier. Bottom line is the spec.B is now a full model and will be easier and cheaper to find, plusses for everyone.

[Tide]

The vast majority of spec.Bs are already sold, so I don't know what you're details are based on. Did I miss an article somewhere?

 

I don't think we're haters. I just think we all look for certain things that are available and want to see them put to use. We see the competition and know what is possible. We are loyal to our Subies and just want to see things head in the right direction. To most of us, a 300hp 6-speed tranny is what we have been looking for. Plus, as stated over and over, the 500 Spec B's that were made were sitting on lots impossible to sell. I guess some of us don't see how it can now become a legit player when they couldn't move the 500 they had made.

[The B4]

wow...Tide is involved... crazy....

[Mui01]

I had just gotten back from the NYC Auto show. Wow, the new B-spec looks really great, but you couldn't near the car, same as the STI limited. The Sti looks weird without the huge ass wing. But the black Brembo are a really nice touch. There were a WRC impreza on display that was cool too. The big bumper was there was no GTR display! F U Nissan

[melayout]

Arm chair car market analysts FTL

[Joel Gat]

Hello,

 

Typically, what I have found is that from a car-person's perspective, the OEs just don't "get it." However, Toyota builds absolutely NO interesting cars and they're taking over the world as the biggest auto manufacturer. Obviously, *WE* don't get it, and they do. Build boring, underpowered, undersprung, underdamped, undertired, under everything cars and people will flock to your dealers. The OEs seem to understand the boring masses well. I see more boring looking people driving Subarus than I see enthusiasts.

 

Meanwhile, on the other end of the spectrum, I think it's true that the OEs have no idea what the enthusiast market is looking for. They're blind to it. The surprise that Subaru had when the 2.5RS sold out initially, should have told them something. But they were slow to bring the WRX, which instantly was a hit. Then they were slow to bring the STi, which was also instantly a hit.

 

If Subaru decided to invest a ton of money and make a $50k car with 500 hp, and make 50,000 copies of it in the first year... *I* am absolutely certain (as in, I would throw all my money into Subaru stock if they gave me insider information that they were about to do that) that they would sell out in a heart beat (assuming they equipped the car with appropriate suspension - nothing fancy, just one step up from anything they offer now). I'm sure many of you are just as certain as I am. Who cares about the details - a Z06 is still made of crappy cheap plastic, too.

 

But tell me... which is a better risk? Make a million boring cars that are sure to sell well, or make a small number of exciting cars that are sure to sell well but offer nowhere near the breadth of sales and won't help grow your image in any way aside from amongst small niche buyers?

 

Toyota already proved that you can simply ignore the niche buyers and still take over the world. Ferrari has proven that you can make a lot of money, but you can't take over the world by catering to just the niche buyers.

 

Heh... in fact, Porsche has learned that if you stop catering to the niche buyers and bring out an SUV... you can more than double your sales.

 

Joel

[SubieDriver]

Isn't the spec. B is offered in multiple colors in other markets? So therefore offering more than one color here shouldnt be a big deal. For example, the Sti, which is the top of the Impreza food chain is offered in more than one color.

 

Very few cars are offered in only one shade by any manufacterer especially if the car is not being released as a limited model, but rather as a trim level.

 

While I agree it may not be advantageous for Subaru to offer the full palate of Legacy colors on a Spec. B, there should at least be more than 1 offered.

 

If a company is confident enough that their car will sell, color becomes somewhat secondary. There are enough people who have different tastes to at least support 3 colors if not more.

 

 

If the Spec B is made on the same assembly line as the regular Legacy, and the body panels are the same (I don't see any differences), there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't offer multiple colors.

 

A single color Spec B only offers exclusivity if that color is not used on any other Legacy models. If they're offering that dark grey on anything else, they've lost that exclusivity, therefore there's no reason to keep it a single color.

 

I understand, with the first year's limited run, if they wanted to offer exclusivity, but now that's it's a regular production model, they no longer need it.

 

BRING ON THE COLORS FOR SPEC B!

 

I'm just hoping it will sell well, which might result in the 3.0R and Leg STI coming here. That would be really great!

 

I still don't understand why they offer the 3.0R in Outback trim but not Legacy trim - what gives?

 

SOA, bring us the Legacy 3.0R! Oh, and it would have to have the 6-speed, not the auto. (but not at the expense of a Legacy STI - either bring both, or just the STI, though I'm sure the 3.0R would sell better, if priced correctly.)

[SubieDriver]

legacy 3.0R = spec B in other markets

 

 

Well, just give me that H6 with the 6-speed tranny and I'll be happy. Whether it's in a 3.0R or STI, I just want that six-pack.

 

Do you think they'll ever offer the H6 in the Spec B?

[IwannaSportSedan]

3.0R doesn't automatically = 3.0R Spec B.

 

If I understand correctly...

 

3.0R has "regular" suspension, and 5EAT, and I think Sport Shift.

 

3.0R Spec B has 6MT and Bilsteins. and larger grille and three-intake lower bumper, and 7-spoke 18" wheels.

 

2.0GT has auto or manual, normal suspension and smaller grille opening, and the "regular" front bumper, 17" wheels same as US GT.

 

2.0GT Spec B has the "smilie" front bumper, larger grille, bilsteins, manual or automatic, and 18" wheels the same as US GT Spec B.

 

Blitzen in Japan is a 2.0GT Spec B in a special color, with special bumper covers, wheels, black interior (and black headliner).

 

Blitzen in Australia is a 3.0R Spec B with same special paint and wheels and black interior.

 

STI Tuned Legacy has special BBS 18"s, Black leather and alcantara interior, (embroidered in Japan) and three colors, black, silver, and urban grey in AUS, Black, Regal Blue, and WR Blue in Japan.

 

WR Limited is a 2004 2.0 GT Spec B, or a 2005 GT standard, in WR Blue with black/Blue embroidered interior.

 

There also was a 2.0GT special edition (anniversary, or something...) in powder blue or psychadelic satin yellow, and may have only been in the sedan body-style.

 

All these cars come from the japanese factory. In both Sedan and Wagon form, with many more options available, and in more colors than the US color palette, even aside from the "special" colors. There are NONE besides the WR Limited that are offered in only one color. (and WR Blue stands on it's own merits, there.) And naturally, Subaru has much more market penetration and equity in Japan. BECAUSE they offer more product choice, and have built their brand awareness in their domestic market.

 

And the US decision makers decide not to offer some options, and only one color on the Spec B. I understand containing complexity and cost, but come on. This is freakin rediculous.

 

It is as if they are trying NOT to be competetive in the marketplace. Mazdaspeed 6 offers 2 trims, and at least 4 colors, and that is JUST the Mazdaspeed, not the main Mazda 6... I am not going to buy one, but I am citing it as competition to the Legacy Spec B.

 

One color on a trim line level car is taking that to EXTREMES, and I stand by the premise that it will likely turn customers away, to other cars in the marketplace. The Legacy is not the only car in the market at that price point, and nowhere near the sales volume of most of its competetors.

 

Call me an arm chair marketing analyst if you like, and perhaps I am, but these economic and marketing concepts are MKTG/ECON 101 level stuff. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that limiting options at a premium price IS A LOSING marketing strategy, unless there is something extenuating to rely on, like a high brand-equity name, or a car that NO ONE else in the market can directly compete with for some distinctive reason.

 

If Subaru is comfortable with less than 3% marketshare as a whole, and probably less than 1% in the sub-market that Legacy competes in, then by all means, keep offering VERY limited configurations for a premium price. Because that won't grow marketshare or sales volume. They may not be Honda, or Toyota, or even Nissan. But they aren't on the track to get there, either. Ugly SUVs, and obscure and limited trim combinations on main-line sedans/wagons, and lack of bodystyles, colors, and options is not the way you get more customers and more money to work with.

 

In business you are either growin or you are dyin'. There ain't no third direction. WRX, Outback, and Tribeca might be able to post overall modest growth numbers for Subaru in North America, to keep FHI somewhat happy, and the Legacy (specific model name) looked good for the first year after coming out of the sales statistic HOLE of the previous generation legacy, but it doesn't seem that the 06 sold a whole lot more units than the 05 Legacy, and nowhere near as many units (as in a third to a quarter as many units) as it's own derivative Outback model.

 

You can justify the US market Spec B as just what SOA tends to do, but you can't convince me that it is a GREAT thing that they are limiting its configuration the way they are. It may be reality, but it isn't ideal, or even very smart.

[tsyGT]

Hello,

 

Typically, what I have found is that from a car-person's perspective, the OEs just don't "get it." However, Toyota builds absolutely NO interesting cars and they're taking over the world as the biggest auto manufacturer. Obviously, *WE* don't get it, and they do. Build boring, underpowered, undersprung, underdamped, undertired, under everything cars and people will flock to your dealers.

 

Joel, I think you'd have to admit Toyota/Lexus/Scion makes some great cars. Perhaps not necessarily enthusiast cars (although the LFA is coming) but they are comfortable, reliable, and some of them quite adequately powered. That's how they've moved up in the world. Not because they make boring cars- that's the American Car builders. And they are not doing well.

 

Also, the Z06 is not just plastic, it's got carbon fiber and magnesium and aluminum to keep weight down, a dry sump oil system, and one sweet 7.0 liter v8. Even if you hate American cars, you have to admit it's a great car (well, you should anyway)

 

Porsche is still a niche automaker- it's just now they also sell dressed up VW SUVs too.

 

But I do agree with you Joel, if Subaru is going to remain a niche automaker, they've got to keep the enthusiasts happy. Which means we want an STi Legacy. Now.

[KA81]

i think this is turning into too much of a debate

 

 

when are the spec B's coming out damn it

 

 

****----> fall

 

 

whens the actual date?

[Joel Gat]

Hello,

 

Oh, the Z06 is my favorite car! It's just cheap plastic inside

 

Joel

[Joel Gat]

when are the spec B's coming out damn it

whens the actual date?

Hello,

 

Late June, Early July according to my contacts at SoA.

 

Joel

[goneskiian]

...if Subaru is going to remain a niche automaker, they've got to keep the enthusiasts happy. Which means we want an STi Legacy. Now.

In a wagon!

[KA81]

Hello,

 

Late June, Early July according to my contacts at SoA.

 

Joel

 

 

 

lets hope my legend lasts that long

[KA81]

you think the dealer would give you any kind of special deal because you were the first one, with money in hand, for a deposit?

[rporter]

The folks who want to buy a new model usually pay a premium.

 

The deals will be after it's out for 6-12 months.

[Joel Gat]

Hello,

 

Though I can't say for certain, I have been led to believe that some dealers will be accepting VIP on the SpecBs.

 

Joel

[BMG905]

Wow, this thread grew fast. Does anybody know if the iDrive will be available to upgrade 05/06 LGT's? I went to the NY AutoShow yesterday and the cars looked great, but I'm still glad I got my GT in Regal Blue. So many grey/silver cars in the world.

 

The people in the booth didn't seem to interested in talking to civilians yesterday, maybe they have show fatigue. But I was wondering if the seat memory is also keyed to the key you use, since the keys all have chips in them now. Would the computer also remember the driving habits of the key holder? Hmmmm.

[IwannaSportSedan]

The folks who want to buy a new model usually pay a premium.

 

The deals will be after it's out for 6-12 months.

 

I hope it doesn't take that long. My local dealer can't seem to sell more than about 3-4 Legacy GTs in a year, and usually they stay on the lot for many moons.

 

I am hoping that after 3-4 months, I'll be able to get somewhere close to invoice price (less than MSRP) on an LGT or Spec B (if other colors are offered, somehow)

 

I don't want to wait and let "my car" sit unpurchased on a dealer lot through next winter, or wait longer on a factory order, just to get a better price in January than September/October. It costs the dealer to hold the car (and they will likely hold their cars, if the last two years inventories have been any indication) and I will buy something, so it might as well be a deal for me, and a sale for them.

 

I am not expecting the greatest deal "evar", but Subaru Legacy isn't exactly a car that demands MSRP or higher on it's name recognition, and I do want a good deal on one. Plus if Spec B is a trim level now, and not a limited edition, it should be as "dealable" as a LGT, Outback, or otherwise...

[slissner]

In 1992 Subaru launched the SVX, a fine GT, which was competitive with models by Lexus, Nissan, BMW, and others, beautiful, quick, and a poor seller, all of because of Subaru of America's inept marketing. The marketing was so bad that a book was written about the failure. (Search the internet for the name of the book, which I read, but can't recall.) I loved my SVX LS-L. Since that debacle, SOA has been exceedingly cautious in offering cars that costly.

 

In other markets, such as Japan, Australia, and Europe, Subaru does offer 3.0R spec.B sedans and wagons with colors and features that would make it a hit, I think, in North America. I can't imagine why SOA doesn't offer the 3.0R spec.B with automatic transmission here. Perhaps they're awaiting the next generation of the Legacy which will appear next year in North America.

 

I'd quickly replace my 2006 2.5 Legacy spec.B with a 3.0R spec.B wagon with automatic transmission.

[bluechipbmw]

I am actually really like the new features/options. These are the features I was hoping to have when I first bought it So tempted to want to trade my car in for a new one once it comes out but I think I am going to get burnt considering my car has a lot of miles!!!

 

Damm and I about to go to stage 2...something is telling me not install and wait for the '07 SpecB. Decisions...decisions... Mostly likely wont

[Legacy05]

As much as the Spec B is something I'd love, the 6 spd is nice, but ... do I really want to be going through that many more gears on my day-to-day drive to work??

 

I'll take my stage two parts and go get the installed this Monday heh