Scotty Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Damn, you beat me to it. Yes HP have been increasing, but so is the curb weight. It's not unusual to see a 3800-4000 lbs car especially in the luxury high performance sedans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 The real thing that matters is power/weight ratio..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaa Kaa Man Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 McCorry -- I know you're the Moderator....but let's get the facts straight. That post only was made after the other guy made his "smoked" comment. Before that, the LGT wasn't in the conversation. Note also that the invective didn't fly until others started to throw dirt at the person who opened this string. Before that it was a positive, healthy discussion. Finally, I don't know who Dash is. Sorry guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucaptainkickass Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Considering that the 335i isn't even out yet...this thread is pointless. The fact is, if EVERYTHING is true about the 335i, then yes, it has a chance of being faster than our cars, if anything neck and neck. And you know what? I don't really care. Why? Because there will ALWAYS be a better car out there. I am more interested in the fact that BMW has created a turbo'd car, which is really freakin cool if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash_78 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 A few quick comments are called for. I have no idea who KKM is nor do I care. Second I must say that I agree with KKM that the tone of this string was dragged down by people other than him. Finally, I don't thing this string is pointless! If it wasn't for this string I wouldn't know about the 335i. I'm in the market for a new car next year (I can give my wife the Spec B) so I'm pretty excited about this and appreciate the heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucaptainkickass Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Ok, in the respect that you have not heard of the 335i, then the thread is not pointless...but what it has turned into...that's what I was referring to as pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Mods/Admins - *PLEASE* ban the troll(s)! (Is there actually more than one person?) There's really no need to tarnish the reputation of cars like the 335i with their incessant whining about how much better than the LGT every other car is. Edit: To stay completely on topic - for the $50k a 335Xi on a lot will probably cost, it had damn well better be better than an LGT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlrtime Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 A 335ix wagon would be very tempting. I would have to take that out for a test drive. One question, isn't 47HP a little low for a twin turbo over the NA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Damn, you beat me to it. Yes HP have been increasing, but so is the curb weight. It's not unusual to see a 3800-4000 lbs car especially in the luxury high performance sedans. The current 3 series weighs in at 3300-3400 lbs, I don't see how your comparison is valid in the case of the Legacy. Both cars are in the same weight class. 3800-4000 lbs is in 5 series territory, and gets you into a very different car; although I can tell you from personal experience that the 550i and M5 are both ungodly fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mines Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I didn't even bother reading the whole thread, after the first couple of posts... i dont care. Lame thread. Moderators please close this thread, it is a repost. Please dicus the twin turbo bmw on this thread http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28435 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I think some folks around here need to dump some testosterone. On BOTH sides. The BMW is a nice car on paper. Very interesting mechanically, and is forwarding the performance genre in it's way. Personally, I am less than impressed with BMW's new design language, founded by Chris Bangle. The only new BMW I would EVER consider as a really soulful and engaging car, is the new M-Coupe (z4 fastback coupe, S54 engine) There are drawbacks to that design, too, though. And the whole mess is too damned expensive. Since when are $50k considered mainstream and everyday for most people? Most new SUVs from GM are costing north of 35-40k... which I think is atrocious. No wonder people are in more debt than ever. Comparing this car to the Legacy is crazy, first of all it is a coupe. Granted a Sedan version is nearly a given, but neither are even on the market, and the BMWs aren't just a few grand more, they cost ~50% more That is different price class. Arguing that the BMW has better driving dynamics than the legacy is expected, and academic. It is qualitative, and there isn't that much improvement that $15k can buy, in the pure numbers. IT isn't going to decrease 0-60 times, nor improve slalom times at a comparable percentage to how much more it costs... It is pointless to argue and get upset about. Now, if Subaru were to generate a grand touring coupe from the legacy platform, with a twin turbo flat 6 and AWD, and computer controlled manual transmission (SMG-like) then we can talk about Subaru undercutting this new 335i. Nice cars are nice cars... comparisons can be made, but at the end of the day, each should be judged on it's merits and value. BTW... Don't let Colin Chapman's ghost EVAR hear you say that power-to-weight ratio is all that matters. there is more to performance than accelleration. Handling and braking have a great deal of dependence on weight, and much less on power. A light car can do all of them well. A heavy car with a lot of power is more of a one-trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I think some folks around here need to dump some testosterone. On BOTH sides. The BMW is a nice car on paper. Very interesting mechanically, and is forwarding the performance genre in it's way. Personally, I am less than impressed with BMW's new design language, founded by Chris Bangle. The only new BMW I would EVER consider as a really soulful and engaging car, is the new M-Coupe (z4 fastback coupe, S54 engine) There are drawbacks to that design, too, though. And the whole mess is too damned expensive. Since when are $50k considered mainstream and everyday for most people? Most new SUVs from GM are costing north of 35-40k... which I think is atrocious. No wonder people are in more debt than ever. Comparing this car to the Legacy is crazy, first of all it is a coupe. Granted a Sedan version is nearly a given, but neither are even on the market, and the BMWs aren't just a few grand more, they cost ~50% more That is different price class. Arguing that the BMW has better driving dynamics than the legacy is expected, and academic. It is qualitative, and there isn't that much improvement that $15k can buy, in the pure numbers. IT isn't going to decrease 0-60 times, nor improve slalom times at a comparable percentage to how much more it costs... It is pointless to argue and get upset about. Now, if Subaru were to generate a grand touring coupe from the legacy platform, with a twin turbo flat 6 and AWD, and computer controlled manual transmission (SMG-like) then we can talk about Subaru undercutting this new 335i. Nice cars are nice cars... comparisons can be made, but at the end of the day, each should be judged on it's merits and value. BTW... Don't let Colin Chapman's ghost EVAR hear you say that power-to-weight ratio is all that matters. there is more to performance than accelleration. Handling and braking have a great deal of dependence on weight, and much less on power. A light car can do all of them well. A heavy car with a lot of power is more of a one-trick pony. Exactly, very well written.. Apples with apples and oranges and oranges.... Same thing with my old S4, awesome car, but really cannot compare with the LGT... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt_ltd Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 ibtl This Space For Rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I would be more impressed if BMW did a turbo diesel coupe - something like 300 hp and 450 lb ft of torque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaa Kaa Man Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 I would be more impressed if BMW did a turbo diesel coupe - something like 300 hp and 450 lb ft of torque As I've recently read, BMW opted not to because diesel raises emissions problems they want to avoid. That is why they opted for a small block twin turbo. By the way, it's interesting that they made the same fundamental decision that Subaru did in recent years, as evidenced by Subaru's use of lightweight, small block inline turbocharged 4-cylinder engines in their performance-oriented WRX, WRX-STI and LGT models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 As I've recently read, BMW opted not to because diesel raises emissions problems they want to avoid. That is why they opted for a small block twin turbo. By the way, it's interesting that they made the same fundamental decision that Subaru did in recent years, as evidenced by Subaru's use of lightweight, small block inline turbocharged 4-cylinder engines in their performance-oriented WRX, WRX-STI and LGT models. KKM, as a BMW dealer I can assure you BMW is doing everything they can to try and get their turbodiesels into the country. The 335i is a fill in between the regular 3 series car and the upcoming M3 that will have north of 400hp, the gap of a 255hp vs the M3 was considered too much. By the way Subaru does not use inline 4-cylinder engines in any current production cars. They are horizontaly opposed 4-cylinder engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 All that for just under 50g's? How do they do it?? Good point. For 50K it ought to be good. Now if its all that for 35K id be more impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Good point. For 50K it ought to be good. Now if its all that for 35K id be more impressed. Where did this 50K number come from? We expect a nice coupe to probably go for 44-45K, same for the sedan which to my knowledge will be recieving the new motor. Sure it's still considerably more than 35K, but I would have a hard time ordering a car with enough options to get it up to 50K. A customer would have to spec out some wierd stuff on a car to get it that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 German cars seem to have all sorts of things as optional equipment, very configurable, but the options cost a pretty penny. Audi, BMW, Porsche. Mini is similar, but at a less expensive extent. But I am sure you and others may know more in actuality... 45K is still ten thousand over MSRP of the Spec B, and twenty thousand dollars more than a GT usually goes for... Still a BIG difference. contrast still applies. American cars seem to be slightly less configureable, with fewer and less expensive options. Japanese tend to be either available to be accessorized, or like subaru, have two options, and very few configuration options. Little configurability to be had for love nor money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 You can't finance mods on your auto loan. You need a different dealer. I financed $8000 worth of mods on my LGT at 1%! And the car already had a SS and an AP from the dealer. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 You need a different dealer. I financed $8000 worth of mods on my LGT at 1%! And the car already had a SS and an AP from the dealer. Nice to know there are Subaru dealers out there that will do that, did you have to go through another lender? Most prime lenders will not carry $8000 over the MSRP of the car, or even 3500-4000 for that matter. Oh well I am glad you were able to find a way. So what mods were performed, and will Subaru still honor your powertrain warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 A manual transmissioned 330i, loaded, is $47,624 at edmunds. Invoice is $45K and MSRP is $49K... I do not have any doubt that the new 335s will be > $50K w/ options. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 A manual transmissioned 330i, loaded, is $47,624 at edmunds. Invoice is $45K and MSRP is $49K... I do not have any doubt that the new 335s will be > $50K w/ options. Ted While it is possible to spec the car to that level, there is no reason to. Many of the options are just not really all that useful, that is why they are optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 That is w/ the luxury pack, the perf. pack, the cold weather pack, active CC, i-Drive, active steering, Comfort Access, satellite radio, sunshades, and aluminum trim. I do not think that is that far beyond a normal pack for someone who can afford a BMW. Now, if it is a person just buing the name, they would get a stripped 325... I think the new M3s will be in the $60K range, especially when they first come out... Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 That is w/ the luxury pack, the perf. pack, the cold weather pack, active CC, i-Drive, active steering, Comfort Access, satellite radio, sunshades, and aluminum trim. I do not think that is that far beyond a normal pack for someone who can afford a BMW. Now, if it is a person just buing the name, they would get a stripped 325... I think the new M3s will be in the $60K range, especially when they first come out... Ted Seriously get rid of the: cold weather PKG, just get heated seats. Active cruise control is like flushing $2200 down a toilet. Ditch the active steering, it is not needed on the 3 at all. The sunshades are also of very limited value on that car, just get the windows tinted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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