Whole bunch of swaps... Should this all work?

[KZJonny]

Okay, so this is a bit of a silly plan, but I think it makes some sense. If nothing else, it rids the world of one more sedan and makes an auto car into a manual, so somewhere the gods of speed would be smiling.

This is the plan as a sketch:

Step 1 - Acquire a Spec B. (A friend of mine has to let his go, and it's a little long in the tooth, so much more money to save it than just break it up.)

Step 2 - Remove 6MT from Spec and install into my 5MT GT wagon. This should be the easiest of all the things going on. I believe all I will need is an NSS since the one on the 5MT has to stay there and the one on the 6MT does not work with a 5MT car. Possibly a clutch and flywheel, but since the donor car runs and shifts fine, I am sure it will handle the extra power for at least a while. If it begins to fail, I'll throw in a new Spec clutch. Probably a Stg 2+ this time, since the (now) 6MT wagon will be getting a JMP Custom VF52 some time in the next year or two.

Probably do a Group N mount + shifter bushings if not already done. 6MT trans already has a short shifter.

Step 3 - Slap some blast plates on the 5MT, inspect clutch, flywheel, throwout bearing which have been giving me trouble lately. As long as that checks out, redo the leaking seal and it all up. (This 5MT already has Group N stuff, short shifter and all the appropriate bushings.

Step 4 - Find a broken/blown up automatic GT/XT wagon and pull the slushbox out. Mainly looking at this becuase it's easier to find auto wagons. (We DID get manual GT wagons here every year from 05-09...) They are consequently generally cheaper, and I think generally likely to have been less abused than their manual cousins.

Step 5 - Throw all my 5MT junk into the formerly auto wagon. Use the matching keys/ECU/BIU/dash cluster and trims from the Spec to make sure the car doesn't have a fit looking for the TCU signals. I am also willing to attempt to just flash the auto ECU with the manual car map. I have heard this can brick the ECU, but I have a hard time finding stories of people who have actually done so. Similar to those who claim to have flashed USDM 3.0R ECU with the manual map available from AUS. It is meant to work, so since I'll have an extra ECU kicking around and I think I have at least one other one on a shelf somewhere, it seems worth the attempt.

The only reason not to just use the ECU and all the junk from the Spec is that it is an 07 and will be looking for emissions garbage and CAN stuff. If I go this way, I think I have to transfer a lot more stuff from that car to the wagon... Unless I happen to find an '07 wagon, but for whatever reason they seem rare around here. Or get an ECU and dash and all that from an '05 being parted out.... and shove it all in together to avoid dealing with reprogramming the EEPROM. In short, there are options.

Spec will also donate all of it's fancy aluminium suspension junk to the wagon, which (if XT) will drop to Legacy height. I am currently looking at a running and driving 05 XT with ~187k kms on it. The trans is acting up and the owner parked it as a result. He's asking $2200 CAD, but it willing to negotiate, knowing that the trans may be an expensive problem... SO I think $1500-1800 would be a reasonable price to settle at. It's a solid colour at least, and while I am no great fan of the XT cladding in general, it could look pretty nice lowered to Spec B height maybe?

 

I think with being able to part out the body panels and other junk from the Spec, and already owning the 5MT, it seems like a good way to mod my summer car, and recycle the good bits that are coming out of it. If there are any gaping holes in this plan, please chime in before I start down a road which is sure to be quite a lot of work.

I'm not running out to buy an auto wagon this second, but probably will soon. If it runs and drives, then fine. It can be the winter car right now, and I will repair and sell on my NA Outback. I've got a basement full of spares for 4th Gen GT cars, so at least this way, everything I have is a donor for the other car.....

[tysparks81]

Yes for all of this!

[KZJonny]

I'll throw this out there just in case.

I anyone has a matching cluster/BIU/ECU + keys? From a scrapped/wrecked 2005-7 manual car, let me know. Probably easier than messing around with reprogramming. Brian, I am looking at you.  Your garage is like the frikkin tickle trunk. ( @Infosecdad )

Tho I need to see if the '07 Spec has top feeds or not. I think so, because it also has a 2ndary air pump, so I am going to assume that it won't likely play nice with an '05 engine with sidefeeds/no air pump.

Deletes being very hard to do these days, and the idea is not to get into tuning with this car, just make it stock and safe for a winter driver.

Edited November 25 by KZJonny

[GearJamr]

All sounds good to me, but I'm not doing the work. 

 

[KZJonny]

2 hours ago, GearJamr said:

All sounds good to me, but I'm not doing the work. 

 

Hey dude, throw your 6MT junk in the wagon and get down here. We can knock out two swaps in a weekend, I am sure. Lift makes it cake.

[KZJonny]

Also, does anyone happen to know:

1) If all you need from a donor car is the dash/ECU/BUI/and lock cylinder + keys? I assume this is it, and the rest of the wiring is similar. (Found an '05 Manual part out today, and dude is going fire sale pricing on what's left.) Figured I might as well pick this stuff up in the event I find an auto shell, their being more common and usually cheaper, etc...

2) I know adjusting mileage should be tricky for good reasons, but does anyone know if it is possible? It would just be nice to roll it back to the mileage on the trans/engine body, not the 300k kms ++ that the dash donor car has gone. Not that it matters *too* much, it's not like the resale on these is all that high, and the ownership record will show how logged mileage at dates of sale.

[KZJonny]

ECU/BIU/Dash Cluster/keys and cylinder found. Anything I am missing?

New Exedy Stg 1 clutch + WRX flywheel as well. If I don't need them, I'll keep them for spare when the Spec Stg 1 wears out. (Or if the slipping I am experiencing means it already has?)

Just need to find a shell to shove it all in to? 

[KZJonny]

So... Reading up on this says the BIU is an actual black box, located in the dash to the right of the steering column. Can anyone confirm or deny?

I'm going to go get some parts (the above mentioned list of ECU related things) before too long as well as a nearly new Exedy Stage 1 clutch + freshly machined WRX flywheel. I figure if mine is damaged (even under warranty possibly?) then I would rather have something on hand to put in right away. This 6MT swap won't happen this weekend.

BUT, I am still not 100% certain that I have the complete shopping list that will allow me to swap from auto to manual seamlessly. I think at this point, the advice to just go find a manual no longer applies so much. Having a complete manual driveline with all the good bushings and mounts and the large number of these now 20 year old cars being scrapped or parted out has changed that balance.

I think there may be more people doing ridiculous things like this in future, so it could be something I journal with a bunch of photos? Depends on interest I suppose. The 6MT master thread has all the answer needed for that swap, but I can't find too much on an auto --> manual conversion for our 4th gens...

 

[GearJamr]

On 11/25/2024 at 6:40 PM, KZJonny said:

Hey dude, throw your 6MT junk in the wagon and get down here. We can knock out two swaps in a weekend, I am sure. Lift makes it cake.

As my current employment contract is not being renewed, I may have some available time in the new year.

[KZJonny]

8 minutes ago, GearJamr said:

As my current employment contract is not being renewed, I may have some available time in the new year.

Ah man. Sorry to hear that. Certainly not the reason why I would ever want someone to have free time. If it happens that you don't find something that fills that time in right away, then reach out.

I've got the lift and a trans jack, and I am stubborn. I think that's about all you need to do a 6MT swap in a day. I realize it's a drive and all, but again. You get to take a drive in your car, then drive it back with a 6 speed!

I think that beats a weekend or whatever of tring to uninstall then install a driveline on a set of jack stands or ramps.

Edited November 27 by KZJonny

[GearJamr]

2 hours ago, KZJonny said:

Ah man. Sorry to hear that. Certainly not the reason why I would ever want someone to have free time. If it happens that you don't find something that fills that time in right away, then reach out.

I've got the lift and a trans jack, and I am stubborn. I think that's about all you need to do a 6MT swap in a day. I realize it's a drive and all, but again. You get to take a drive in your car, then drive it back with a 6 speed!

I think that beats a weekend or whatever of tring to uninstall then install a driveline on a set of jack stands or ramps.

Thanks for the offer, again.    There are still a couple things I need to get for it, like a shifter, possibly a clutch/FW.  My plan was to acquire what else I needed over the winter and get it done by a pro in the spring.  The one I got potentially has some issues.  I'll see how it shakes out over the winter.  I have a sister that lives near Oshawa so I would have a place to stop/stay.

[tysparks81]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:17 AM, KZJonny said:

I'll throw this out there just in case.

I anyone has a matching cluster/BIU/ECU + keys? From a scrapped/wrecked 2005-7 manual car, let me know. Probably easier than messing around with reprogramming. Brian, I am looking at you.  Your garage is like the frikkin tickle trunk. ( @Infosecdad )

Tho I need to see if the '07 Spec has top feeds or not. I think so, because it also has a 2ndary air pump, so I am going to assume that it won't likely play nice with an '05 engine with sidefeeds/no air pump.

Deletes being very hard to do these days, and the idea is not to get into tuning with this car, just make it stock and safe for a winter driver.

I think you mentioned you have all of the parts.  But I know Zach in Kitchener has two or three legacies he is parting at the moment if you are still looking. 

I am confirming that 07 Spec is top feed.  I know you could make a set of air pump deletes if you needed to, but here is a link to buying them on Amazon.  But I'm not sure you would even need to get them turned off, if the motor is going into an 05-06.  That or swap on the 05 heads, but that is a lot more work.  But removes any tuning requirements.

[KZJonny]

How about wiring?

I know the NSS from the 5MT will have to be installed on the 6MT. (Or I will just buy a new one, since I’ll need two….) aside from that the 5MT—-> 6MT swap is pretty simple.

 

I’ve now sourced, and am waiting to go get all the relevant parts from an ‘05 Manual to donate to the auto car. (Officially a 05 OBXT in Pacific blue w/grey trim….)

BUT the thought occurred to me that the harness may be different somehow? The engine bay should be the same, really. No difference between the two cars there, but the harness to the trans will clearly not be the same.

I’ll have both an auto and manual car in front of me to compare and all that, but if it is a know value that there is some wiring I should get from the  manual donor car, I’m all ears. Assume it would all be the same from the Spec, so I can maybe just use that?

[tysparks81]

16 hours ago, KZJonny said:

How about wiring?

I know the NSS from the 5MT will have to be installed on the 6MT. (Or I will just buy a new one, since I’ll need two….) aside from that the 5MT—-> 6MT swap is pretty simple.

 

I’ve now sourced, and am waiting to go get all the relevant parts from an ‘05 Manual to donate to the auto car. (Officially a 05 OBXT in Pacific blue w/grey trim….)

BUT the thought occurred to me that the harness may be different somehow? The engine bay should be the same, really. No difference between the two cars there, but the harness to the trans will clearly not be the same.

I’ll have both an auto and manual car in front of me to compare and all that, but if it is a know value that there is some wiring I should get from the  manual donor car, I’m all ears. Assume it would all be the same from the Spec, so I can maybe just use that?

Harness to the transmission is the same its just different polarity or resistance from the NSS switch iirc when going from 5spd to 6spd. So no changes for the transmission harness.  I recall there being a few wiring differences in the body harness to the ECU when going from Auto to Manual but that is present when using an auto ECU.  Not sure you would need to do anything if swapping ECU's.  Would need to look at ecu diagram to confirm that.

[KZJonny]

49 minutes ago, tysparks81 said:

Harness to the transmission is the same its just different polarity or resistance from the NSS switch iirc when going from 5spd to 6spd. So no changes for the transmission harness.  I recall there being a few wiring differences in the body harness to the ECU when going from Auto to Manual but that is present when using an auto ECU.  Not sure you would need to do anything if swapping ECU's.  Would need to look at ecu diagram to confirm that.

Haha! Yeah, so you're saying I have to do it the hard way and study the pinouts..... ugh.

Okay.

[KZJonny]

Thinking on it a little tho, and auto ECU must want MORE information, but that should come via the TCU. So, there are likely MORE of the I/Os on an auto being used than in a manual where you pick your own adventure.

So, (not having gone to the pinouts yet) there are least should be more wires in the auto car overall. I would be a matter of not plugging in a TCU, and possibly transferring or depinning any wires that are only for auto functions and are no longer needed.

I suspec that for a 20 year old car there is very little reason to make any of these changes reversible. Besides auto = yuck. Also, manuals sell for a lot more, so I don't see this ever going back the way it came.

Edited Thursday at 04:37 PM by KZJonny