dfj240's 08 Outback XT

[dfj240]

Howdy,

It's been quite a long time since I made a build/journey thread on a car forum, but it seems appropriate to do so given what I've found myself into lately. Should be fun. I'm copying this thread over from the Outback forum as I figured it might be of interest to some folks here.

Origin:
I bought the car sight-unseen from an auction 1,000 miles away with no inspection.. because I apparently suddenly decided that I like to live dangerously. I'm still not sure why I did except that I was letting go of my 2012 Mazdaspeed 3, and wanted to move back into a turbo Subaru (had a 2010 STI previously). This generation of Legacy/Outback is one of the best looking Subarus ever in my opinion, and we had previously owned an 06 Outback 2.5i for my wife, and we really liked it.

It has 205,000 miles, and was a single owner car that was traded into the Subaru dealer seemingly for a new Subaru. Anyway, the car was listed with "mechanical damage", so I knew going in that it was going to be time to get my hands dirty in order to get it on the road. I've been wrenching for about 20 years now, including having my own shop many moons ago. So mechanical work excites me rather than scares me, but still, no telling what "mechanical damage" can mean with an auction car.

Now what?:
I had the car delivered from Kentucky to Texas, and it was a little rougher on the outside than I had expected, and it ran like absolute garbage.. but it did technically run. Getting it in the garage, I got straight away to hunting for issues. What I could immediately deduce was that there was an issue with airflow. It was choking under throttle, and wouldn't hold idle at all.

It didn't take long to find the first issue.. A turbo inlet pipe that was completely disconnected from the turbo, as it had disintegrated and blown out. For added enjoyment, someone plastic welded the PCV hose connection on the topside of the inlet pipe. FUN! So I added a Perrin turbo inlet pipe to the shopping list, and continued tearing things apart.

The next issue I noticed was that there seemed to be an exhaust leak before the turbo. So I made a makeshift smoke machine to run backward through the exhaust system to figure out where the leak was. I suspected that it was at the up-pipe because it was basically just a pile of rust sitting there. And I was right. It basically fell apart with very little jostling once it was removed from the car. Replacing with an OEM up-pipe just didn't feel right, so a Tomei UEL manifold and some Grimmspeed gaskets got added to the list.

To be continued...

[dfj240]

With the car's age and mileage, I didn't completely trust that the catalytic converters were still flowing as freely as they should, and that can sometimes cause similar behavior to what I was seeing. The cats weren't clogged at all, but the doughnut was completely rusted to the catback portion of the exhaust. It's possible that I was just making the correct excuses to add an Invidia Q300 exhaust to the list, but you know.. it could have been a problem later, too..

On top of that, I was able to break out an Agency Power catless bellmouth downpipe that I had sitting around from my 2010 STI. For those wondering, it clears the firewall with plenty of space when mounted to the stock VF46 turbo. However, the exit angle is incorrect as it's pointed 8 degrees upward from level when using the driveshaft as the leveling standard. I also don't plan to run catless on a daily driven car, so I ordered a Magnaflow cat to add to the downpipe. The angle will be adjusted at the same time that the cat gets welded in.

After changing out the oxygen and AFR sensors, and putting new NGK plugs in, I started to realize that I'd made a mistake in my diagnostic approach. I was hunting and throwing parts at it instead of gathering data and analyzing. I may have just been a bit excited, but no excuse, the car was running way better with some nice clean airflow, but as you can see in the video, something still wasn't right.

I plugged in a Tactrix, and connected to the car's ECU with a laptop to do some data logging. I wanted to see fueling, AFR, and some other parameters during idle conditions, throttle application, and even more importantly, on the way back down to idle. One of the parameters I wanted to see was also the cylinder roughness counter, which logs misfires and other "roughness" events. And oh boy, cylinder 4 was VERY unhappy (of course it's cylinder 4, it's a Subaru). Time to break out the compression tester, which I arguably should have done on day 1 to be honest.

And there we are. Abysmal compression in cylinder 4 that typically points to a broken piston, a dropped valve, or something similar.. or in our case here.. a broken exhaust valve. Hard to build compression when the combustion chamber extends to the entire exhaust system!

For comparison, here's cylinder 3:

So now I had to make some decisions about how to proceed. The motor had to come out, and so I needed to figure out just how much I was wiling to get into in order to get the car back on the road.

The first step though is to get the motor out. So I phoned a friend, and we got it pulled.

To be continued...

[dfj240]

Technically, I ran a borescope into cylinder 4 before we pulled the motor, and found the very obvious problem..

There's a bit missing there.

With the motor out, I could start disassembling everything, and make sure that there wasn't anything else that was damaged..

The heads look pretty clean on the top side, but the seats are looking a little suspect...

Oh, and by the way, if you ever disassemble an EJ engine, do yourself a HUGE favor and invest in some upgraded cam bolts because the factory allen head bolts are a total joke.. and not a funny one. I was able to get 3 of the 4 loose, but I had to use a bolt extractor to get the 4th one, which took a lot of hammering.. We honor the extractor's sacrifice...

The heads were removed, and sent to my local Subaru performance shop with some brand new GSC valve guides to see if they can be salvaged, and get the valve guides replaced.

Plenty more to come...

[dfj240]

While waiting on parts and other bits of the engine building process to take shape, I've passed some time by tearing apart the interior and doing some deep cleaning. With the car being 16 years old, and having over 200k on the odometer, there's no telling what kind of mess could have been made that isn't immediately obvious.

So I pulled everything apart, cleaned everything up pretty well, and then put it back together.

I might end up pulling it apart again actually, because I'm considering doing some acoustic lining under the carpet, but that's probably something I'll tackle another time to be honest.

I also decided to go ahead and take care of the issue of the factory audio system and climate control. The best solution for this is, of course, the JDM AV panel kit, so I hopped on AVO JDM and ordered the dual zone to match my factory setup, and reached out to David from AE64 for his wiring kit.

To keep the wiring as clean as possible, I placed an order from Mouser Electronics for some connectors and pins to match all the wiring together. The first order wasn't quite right as the pitch was too narrow, so I looked through some additional options, and I actually happened to pick the exact some connector that Subaru used from the factory for the main stereo harness connector. So my audio wiring ended up being even cleaner than I planned since I can run directly from the stereo without even having to use David's wiring (though I did use it as a cheat sheet for pinning my connector). If anyone is interested in the connectors and pinning, let me know, and I can provide some details. Sorry about the dark pictures.

Next, I added a flush mount USB outlet where the previous lighter socket was, and relocated the lighter socket to the inside of the glovebox so that I can run my dashcam to that without taking up the USB ports for the radio. To be honest, I'm not super happy with where I decided to put it. It seemed like a nice fit, but it's actually not great because it's kind of in the way when things are plugged into it. But oh well.. I might pick up another glove box from a salvage yard or eBay if I feel like giving it another go at some point. For now, it'll do.

 

More engine stuff coming soon...

[dfj240]

So my cylinder heads needed quite a lot of work in order to make them serviceable again. After a good conversation with the folks at Auto Science, the decision was made to skip the work of refreshing the existing heads, and I've ordered new ones from Subaru. They should be in soon, and then I can get to work on building the heads, and getting the motor back together. I will be trying to capture some detail as I build the heads as I have a buddy who is interested in learning the process, but isn't able to make it in person. I'll post some details of what I'm using, and how I'm building everything in case it helps anyone.

I already have an absolute mountain of parts sitting on the shelves in the garage waiting for the build to really start. I won't ruin the surprise, but it should be a great build.

For now, just waiting on the cylinder heads to be ready for pickup!

[dfj240]

Still waiting on cylinder heads, but I went ahead and tackled the oil pan area the other day since I had some time. The pan itself is still in decent enough shape, but I did want to take the opportunity to do some upgrades and parts updates.

First, was to go ahead and refresh the oil pressure switch (25240KA041). An inexpensive part to go ahead and change while everything is torn down. Nice and easy. Also a good time to install a sensor if you wanted to upgrade from the switch, but I'm not terribly worried about that at the moment, so I'm sticking with the switch for now.

With the pan removed, we're checking for any obvious issues like metal pieces or flakes, dents and damage to any of the windage panels, and also sludge. In this case, we have a little bit of sludge in the bottom of the pan, but it cleaned up very quickly with a shop towel.

Also checking for sludge in the bottom end, or other signs of issues with the oil pickup or windage tray. Looks pretty clean overall, so I'm not too worried about the state of the bottom end. I am not expecting this bottom end to last forever, but it does look like it had a relatively good maintenance regimen, so for 200k miles, I'm fairly impressed with how things look.

But it's now time to put some nice things in it. So in goes a Killer B Motorsport Windage Tray and Oil Pickup

IMPORTANT: The following picture is of the EJ25's $7,000 o-ring. It's called the $7k o-ring because if you forget to install it, then you will lose oil pressure, and there goes your motor (which generally cost about $7k to replace).
 

DON'T FORGET THE O-RING!

That done, I cleaned up the pan a bit, and installed a magnetic drain plug (32103KA000). This is nice to have for your motor regardless of it's status or situation, but it's especially useful when you're doing a rebuild or installing new parts, or when you've had any kind of failure where something metallic broke off or disintegrated. In this case, I'm not worried about bits of the broken valve ending up in the crankcase since that's not really how that would work, but I am installing brand new valves, cams, and everything else on brand new heads. As they are broken in, it's not unusual to find tiny metal flakes or shavings in the oil. A magnetic drain plug will attract them and hold on to them while the engine is being broken in, and into the future. A nice $20 security blanket, for sure.

 

All done, now just waiting on cylinder heads.

More updates coming soon. Thanks for reading.

[tysparks81]

Good job, looking forward to the progress on this.

[Febreze Mee]

I wish I took the magnetic drain plug more seriously. I had, what I thought to be, a concerning amount of metal flakes upon engine break in last summer. I've had a Fumoto drain valve on for my entire ownership of the car, and didn't even consider a magnetic plug, so I didn't capture any of the metal while it was circulating. I just changed my oil every 1500-2000 for the first 10K miles. I'm at 40K trouble-free, hard miles on the car without issue. That said, I will still be using one next break in. 

[dfj240]

16 hours ago, Febreze Mee said:

I wish I took the magnetic drain plug more seriously. I had, what I thought to be, a concerning amount of metal flakes upon engine break in last summer. I've had a Fumoto drain valve on for my entire ownership of the car, and didn't even consider a magnetic plug, so I didn't capture any of the metal while it was circulating. I just changed my oil every 1500-2000 for the first 10K miles. I'm at 40K trouble-free, hard miles on the car without issue. That said, I will still be using one next break in. 

Definitely agree! The best case in point that I ever had was actually with my 2017 BRZ. I bought it brand new, and I had heard that the rear diff fluid was a serious problem in those cars for some reason, and folks were reporting a bunch of metal flaking. I took it to a shop and had Motul fluid put in it, and the tech came out and said "Well, it was definitely well past the point that it needed to be changed. It's really not good for those differentials to miss service intervals by that much. When was the last time you had it changed out?" I had to break it to the guy that the car had less than 250 miles on it, and it was a brand new car that I had bought less than 2 weeks prior. Luckily, those have magnetic drain plugs from factory, but the debris it caught was alarming. Pictures attached.
 

[Febreze Mee]

Oh wow! Look at that. I'll remember this if I ever by a new car, now.

[dfj240]

Cylinder heads!!

Brand new from Subaru. The cylinder heads already have valve guides, as well as new cam caps and bolts. So shiny and clean it almost seems a shame to put it in a car.

I did some work on the right side head last night, and will be doing more work tonight. I should have everything pretty far along by the end of the night, and I will give a write up on what I did. I'm excited to finally have heads after nearly a month long wait though. Felt like forever.

[dfj240]

Got after the left side head last night. I was able to complete the initial work needed to start assembling the heads, and getting them fully ready to install to the block. What work, you ask? Lapping valves, and measuring valve lash! Super important when assembling new parts into a head.

Some will argue that lapping brand new valves isn't required when they're being installed into a brand new head, and they're probably not necessarily wrong, but my experience has always been that it's better to go ahead and lap the valves, because while they may be smooth, new surfaces, they weren't made with that specific valve in mind, or that seat in mind. So you probably won't end up with a ton of leak if you don't grind them, but in my experience, you can get really low leak numbers if you do give them a quick grind. 

Anyway, on to the pictures.. First, the left side head:

Next, the peak into what's going into the new heads...

Here's some pictures of the work I did the past couple nights...

What's not shown in pictures is measuring the valve lash. Subarus, since about 2003-2004, use a shimless bucket system, where each bucket is a particular thickness, and you measure your gap, and then use the correct size bucket based on how much gap you need to fill. The way I did it was to measure using the buckets that came out of the old heads. In a couple cases, I couldn't use the buckets because the bucket was so close to the cam that I had to use a thinner one to be sure I was getting an accurate measurement. Here were my results:

Valve - Base Bucket @ Lash Measured in/mm - Gap from Spec - Bucket Size Needed
RH Side:
Intake 1 - 494 @ .013/.33 - Wide 0.13mm - Need 507
Intake 2 - 491 @ .012/.30 - Wide 0.10mm - Need 501 ** Use LH Int 1
Intake 3 - 492 @ .008/.10 - In Spec - 492
Intake 4 - 489 @ .008/.10 - In Spec - 489
Exhaust 1 - 499 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 499
Exhaust 2 - 497 @ .008/.20 - Narrow 0.05mm - Need 492 ** Use RH Ex 4
Exhaust 3 - 493 @ .012/.30 - Wide 0.05mm - Need 498 ** Use LH Int 4
Exhaust 4 - 492 @ .012/.30 - Wide 0.05mm - Need 497 ** Use RH Ex 2

LH Side
Intake 1 - 489* @ .006/.15 - Narrow 0.05mm - Need 484
Intake 2 - 489* @ .007/.18 - Narrow 0.02mm - Need 487
Intake 3 - 499 @ .0015/.04 - Narrow 0.16mm - Need 483
Intake 4 - 498 @ .004/.10 - Narrow 0.10mm - Need 488
Exhaust 1 - 495 @ .008/.20 - Narrow 0.05mm - Need 490 ** Use RH Int 2
Exhaust 2 - 496 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 496
Exhaust 3 - 492 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 492
Exhaust 4 - 493 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 493

I was able to play some musical valve buckets and switch some of them up just with what I had to get them in spec. So ultimately I find myself needing 5 new buckets (I used the 491 from RH Intake 2 for LH Exhaust 1, for example). If you're confused about these numbers and curious, feel free to ask, I don't mind explaining. Someone many years ago had to explain it all to me while I was learning such things, and I appreciate them very much for helping give me the knowledge to be able to do this kind of thing; it's amazingly therapeutic for me.

So, I'd love to assemble everything into both heads, but I've got some valve buckets to order first. For inquiring minds, you'll notice in the list that I need a 483, 484, 487, 488, and a 507. What I'm going to order is going to be all of the bucket sizes between 483-490, and 505-509. Is that completely necessary? Not really, but I like the idea of having a variety of buckets available so that when I install what I think I need based on my initial measurement, if the measurement is still off slightly, then I have extra options to get it nice and tidy.

I'd also like to point out that the LH Intake side was so tight with the thicker buckets from the original head that the cam was making contact with one of the buckets. Make sure that you don't measure any of the buckets if that's happening. That contact means that you can't trust your measurement on any other bucket because you can't be sure that the cam is properly seated. Also make sure you lap the valves before measuring buckets as well.

Anyway, sorry to get all nerdy on everyone. But the nerdy stuff is required for the fun to be had later on. 

 

[dfj240]

Almost forgot to add that I also went ahead and installed the new thermostat, flywheel inspection port cover (11413AA033), and removed the unnecessary filter from the oil banjo bolts.

Some pictures:

[Febreze Mee]

Man, I appreciate seeing the productivity on this thread. A breath of fresh air. I also sincerely appreciate how much time and effort you put into formatting, and producing a clean product for us to read. Giving me some motivation to update my thread, now I need the discipline to. Very enjoyable! Looking forward to your next post.

[KZJonny]

29 minutes ago, dfj240 said:

Got after the left side head last night. I was able to complete the initial work needed to start assembling the heads, and getting them fully ready to install to the block. What work, you ask? Lapping valves, and measuring valve lash! Super important when assembling new parts into a head.

Some will argue that lapping brand new valves isn't required when they're being installed into a brand new head, and they're probably not necessarily wrong, but my experience has always been that it's better to go ahead and lap the valves, because while they may be smooth, new surfaces, they weren't made with that specific valve in mind, or that seat in mind. So you probably won't end up with a ton of leak if you don't grind them, but in my experience, you can get really low leak numbers if you do give them a quick grind. 

Anyway, on to the pictures.. First, the left side head:

Next, the peak into what's going into the new heads...

Here's some pictures of the work I did the past couple nights...

What's not shown in pictures is measuring the valve lash. Subarus, since about 2003-2004, use a shimless bucket system, where each bucket is a particular thickness, and you measure your gap, and then use the correct size bucket based on how much gap you need to fill. The way I did it was to measure using the buckets that came out of the old heads. In a couple cases, I couldn't use the buckets because the bucket was so close to the cam that I had to use a thinner one to be sure I was getting an accurate measurement. Here were my results:

Valve - Base Bucket @ Lash Measured in/mm - Gap from Spec - Bucket Size Needed
RH Side:
Intake 1 - 494 @ .013/.33 - Wide 0.13mm - Need 507
Intake 2 - 491 @ .012/.30 - Wide 0.10mm - Need 501 ** Use LH Int 1
Intake 3 - 492 @ .008/.10 - In Spec - 492
Intake 4 - 489 @ .008/.10 - In Spec - 489
Exhaust 1 - 499 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 499
Exhaust 2 - 497 @ .008/.20 - Narrow 0.05mm - Need 492 ** Use RH Ex 4
Exhaust 3 - 493 @ .012/.30 - Wide 0.05mm - Need 498 ** Use LH Int 4
Exhaust 4 - 492 @ .012/.30 - Wide 0.05mm - Need 497 ** Use RH Ex 2

LH Side
Intake 1 - 489* @ .006/.15 - Narrow 0.05mm - Need 484
Intake 2 - 489* @ .007/.18 - Narrow 0.02mm - Need 487
Intake 3 - 499 @ .0015/.04 - Narrow 0.16mm - Need 483
Intake 4 - 498 @ .004/.10 - Narrow 0.10mm - Need 488
Exhaust 1 - 495 @ .008/.20 - Narrow 0.05mm - Need 490 ** Use RH Int 2
Exhaust 2 - 496 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 496
Exhaust 3 - 492 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 492
Exhaust 4 - 493 @ .010/.25 - In Spec - 493

I was able to play some musical valve buckets and switch some of them up just with what I had to get them in spec. So ultimately I find myself needing 5 new buckets (I used the 491 from RH Intake 2 for LH Exhaust 1, for example). If you're confused about these numbers and curious, feel free to ask, I don't mind explaining. Someone many years ago had to explain it all to me while I was learning such things, and I appreciate them very much for helping give me the knowledge to be able to do this kind of thing; it's amazingly therapeutic for me.

So, I'd love to assemble everything into both heads, but I've got some valve buckets to order first. For inquiring minds, you'll notice in the list that I need a 483, 484, 487, 488, and a 507. What I'm going to order is going to be all of the bucket sizes between 483-490, and 505-509. Is that completely necessary? Not really, but I like the idea of having a variety of buckets available so that when I install what I think I need based on my initial measurement, if the measurement is still off slightly, then I have extra options to get it nice and tidy.

I'd also like to point out that the LH Intake side was so tight with the thicker buckets from the original head that the cam was making contact with one of the buckets. Make sure that you don't measure any of the buckets if that's happening. That contact means that you can't trust your measurement on any other bucket because you can't be sure that the cam is properly seated. Also make sure you lap the valves before measuring buckets as well.

Anyway, sorry to get all nerdy on everyone. But the nerdy stuff is required for the fun to be had later on. 

 

There is also an excel sheet available here somewhere for those that just want to plug in their values and have someone/thing else just give them the answers. I made my own up real quick when I did this dance in the spring, fwiw.

Awesome thread man. I did a double take when I saw those heads... thinking "How did he get them so effing clean!!?" Then realized you'd said you were buying new ones. good on ya. I was too broke at the time for that kind of thing so I had mine machined and spent a few evenings doing much the same work as you just did, only with the stock valves. Sodium filled and all, so I figured, use what ya got.....

[dfj240]

46 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

There is also an excel sheet available here somewhere for those that just want to plug in their values and have someone/thing else just give them the answers. I made my own up real quick when I did this dance in the spring, fwiw.

Awesome thread man. I did a double take when I saw those heads... thinking "How did he get them so effing clean!!?" Then realized you'd said you were buying new ones. good on ya. I was too broke at the time for that kind of thing so I had mine machined and spent a few evenings doing much the same work as you just did, only with the stock valves. Sodium filled and all, so I figured, use what ya got.....

LOL. Yeah, they had that new metal smell and everything too. It's been a long time since I've bought anything brand new that's this expensive, but my old heads were pretty chewed up, and worn, and I don't have all the same tooling here in the garage that I used to have in my shop, so I figured it was just easier to buy new ones. It did hurt the old pocketbook a bit though, it must be said. 

And in my past builds, I've typically just always run stock stuff, especially if I'm not going for some crazy power or anything, but this time around, I wanted some future proofing in case I want to push it a little bit later on. Better to go ahead and do it properly now so I don't have to worry about doubling back later.

Good to know about that excel sheet. That's a great idea, especially for folks who aren't confident, and/or haven't done it much.

[dfj240]

1 hour ago, Febreze Mee said:

Man, I appreciate seeing the productivity on this thread. A breath of fresh air. I also sincerely appreciate how much time and effort you put into formatting, and producing a clean product for us to read. Giving me some motivation to update my thread, now I need the discipline to. Very enjoyable! Looking forward to your next post.

Thanks for the kind words! Your build is incredibly clean too, and a nickel's worth of free sneak peak for you is that I actually run a part time business doing paint correction and detailing. Yours came out super nice, so I'll definitely be capturing that here very soon. 

In fact, I just placed the order for the new buckets I need, and they won't be in until Friday, so I'll need something to do later today and tomorrow... 

[KZJonny]

6 minutes ago, dfj240 said:

I wanted some future proofing in case I want to push it a little bit later on

These cars are pretty good as is/stock, but you may already know that very well.

Uprated rear sway bar, really makes them much more neutral and all around better to drive.

COBB (or custom) Stage 1 tune, even with all stock stuff and a VF40/46 really wakes them up as well.
(This is maybe all in the mountain of parts you already have?!)

 

Don't go for a drive in a VF52 car with a tune unless you're ready to open the wallet for some hurting again. I learned this the hard way, and have a VF52 being built up for me currently....

Edited November 20 by KZJonny

[dfj240]

10 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

These cars are pretty good as is/stock, but you may already know that very well.

Uprated rear sway bar, really makes them much more neutral and all around better to drive.

COBB (or custom) Stage 1 tune, even with all stock stuff and a VF40/46 really wakes them up as well.
(This is maybe all in the mountain of parts you already have?!)

 

Don't go for a drive in a VF52 car with a tune unless you're ready to open the wallet for some hurting again. I learned this the hard way, and have a VF52 being built up for me currently....

Awesome to know about the rear sway bar. What size bar are you running?

I'm purely focused on the motor right now since I just need the car running, but suspension, brakes, and drivetrain are all in the plan for the future as well.

Don't want to spoil too much of what's coming shortly, but I am doing this initial build with the plan to later add the components for a VF52 upgrade (intercooler, fueling, etc). I do think that I want to go with the STI 6 speed gearbox and brakes before I go adding the extra power, but we'll see how well the 5 speed holds up with what I'm building right now.

Edited November 20 by dfj240

[KZJonny]

1 hour ago, dfj240 said:

Awesome to know about the rear sway bar. What size bar are you running?

Cusco size?

1 hour ago, dfj240 said:

we'll see how well the 5 speed holds up with what I'm building right now.

Honestly, should be just fine. 6MT is a great upgrade and all, but $$$!! And unless you find a Spec B 6MT you're not even getting the benefit of tall gears and reduced mileage in 6th. I'm probably 270awhp on my current setup and will be throwing in JMP Custom VF52 at some point. I fully expect the 5MT to handle it, but I also a picking up a Spec B for parts shortly, so the 6MT will be swapping in, just because.

If you just want the taller 6th, and are confident about ramming some power down it, the WRX cable actuated 6MTs are popular swap as well. (the 2010-? LGT 6MTs work as well, but there are fewer of them. (presumably because of total no built and also probably fewer boy racers driving them into ditches.) These are reputed to have been designed for the EE20 deisel engines so unless you're going really wild, they're proving to be capable of handling turbo induced torque.

See:

 

[dfj240]

1 hour ago, KZJonny said:

Cusco size?

2 hours ago, dfj240 said:

LOL. Fair enough. I plan to do some deep diving when I get around to suspension. It seems like options are a bit limited for the Outback when it comes to suspension bars, but that's not terribly surprising.

1 hour ago, KZJonny said:

Honestly, should be just fine. 6MT is a great upgrade and all, but $$$!! And unless you find a Spec B 6MT you're not even getting the benefit of tall gears and reduced mileage in 6th. I'm probably 270awhp on my current setup and will be throwing in JMP Custom VF52 at some point. I fully expect the 5MT to handle it, but I also a picking up a Spec B for parts shortly, so the 6MT will be swapping in, just because.

If you just want the taller 6th, and are confident about ramming some power down it, the WRX cable actuated 6MTs are popular swap as well. (the 2010-? LGT 6MTs work as well, but there are fewer of them. (presumably because of total no built and also probably fewer boy racers driving them into ditches.) These are reputed to have been designed for the EE20 deisel engines so unless you're going really wild, they're proving to be capable of handling turbo induced torque.

Yeah, I've looked into this option, and I remain very tempted by it. Especially since I dumped a bunch of money on a new clutch and flywheel for this build, and that will work with the WRX 6MT, but not the STI. I have a buddy who had a built 2015 WRX years back that was pushing over 500awhp on that stock 6 speed, and it did ok. He tightened up the shift feel with upgraded bushings and all that, but mostly, the split case design still makes me a bit nervous. I know that it can be braced, but the shift feel, and the limited slip, and everything else around the STI 6 speed is very attractive to me. Definitely costs some coin, but well worth it in my opinion, especially if I can also upgrade to the STI brakes, and 5x114 hubs at the same time. I'll recover from this go-around with the engine build for a bit, and get things settled in, all the while setting aside my walking around money for that STI swap.

Basically, my wife's 22 Forester Wilderness is paid off in about a year, and I had the choice of getting into a new GR Corolla, or just spending some cash and building an old Subaru, so I'll probably end up spending quite a lot on this car for a while since I can use the "but at least I didn't buy the $45k car" excuse. Lol.

And honestly, as nice as it would be to get a brand new car, my son is 12 now, and I'm liking the idea of showing an example of how to go through a build of an older, cheaper car that needs some love and making it your own. Have to help the next generation of car enthusiasts pick things up after all. Lol.

[KZJonny]

35 minutes ago, dfj240 said:

if I can also upgrade to the STI brakes

YES! 

35 minutes ago, dfj240 said:

and 5x114 hubs at the same time

NO!! 

 

35 minutes ago, dfj240 said:

the shift feel, and the limited slip, and everything else around the STI 6 speed is very attractive to me

STi sourced 6MTs have a LSD in the front. Spec B 6MTs do not.

You can add an LSD to a Spec B trans. (~$1200) Probably not really at all needed in a street car, but what the hell. I like LSDs too.

STi trans has really short gearing, but you can swap out the tallest gears (5/6) for the Spec ratio tall ones to get the RPMs down on the highway. (~$750 or so, $1750 to redo all the gears in the trans, courtesy of Rallispec.)

Just gives you some options on what to look for. Also worth noting you'd want to include the cost of some kind of controller for the centre diff if the trans came with DCCD in the donor car. Reportedly the centre diffs do not like being left in 'open' configuration. Having a controller will extend life?

Edited November 20 by KZJonny

[dfj240]

3 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

NO!! 

Really?! A Subaru part that isn't interchangeable with another Subaru in some way? I never thought I'd see the day.

I figured that it would require some additional supporting parts (control arms, etc.), but does it just not work at all without getting really wild about it? I haven't done much searching on that one yet. To be honest, I just kind of assumed "Well, it's Subaru so there will be a way to make it work". Lol

[KZJonny]

36 minutes ago, dfj240 said:

Especially since I dumped a bunch of money on a new clutch and flywheel for this build, and that will work with the WRX 6MT, but not the STI.

The solution to this is to find another GT/XT that is automatic and fix it by adding those spendy 5MT + clutch parts.

5EAT may be thrown in the dumpster.

[KZJonny]

2 minutes ago, dfj240 said:

Really?! A Subaru part that isn't interchangeable with another Subaru in some way? I never thought I'd see the day.

I figured that it would require some additional supporting parts (control arms, etc.), but does it just not work at all without getting really wild about it? I haven't done much searching on that one yet. To be honest, I just kind of assumed "Well, it's Subaru so there will be a way to make it work". Lol

Unfortunately not.

Custom arms might do it? Probably beyond the scope of the build, not to mention cost prohibitive.

There has been some suggestion that maybe with enough machining, it can be done, but it leaves perilously little metal left in the arms, and to the best of my knowledge, not a single car on this site has STi pattern hubs.

Fronts are plug and play, but the trailing arms do not accomodate the larger hubs. STi’s do not use the same rear suspension setup.