2008 spec b + rev. c bilsteins fitment questions

[pleiadesfella]

apologies if I shouldn't be making a new thread for this but the megathreads seem kind of dead. please merge if not allowed, thanks.

I also talk way too much for my own good so tl;dr: will 17x9 +40 with meaty 255/40/17 tires hit tierods or otherwise cause issues with jdm rev. c bilsteins and possibly lowering springs on a 2008 spec b?

some background:

right now my spec b is on jdm rev. c spec b bilsteins (fairly confident they're sedan ones) and the car came with 18x9.5 +45 enkei ts9s installed. I think the ts9s are hitting my tierods on full lock in parking lots (i.e. steering wheel jolts almost like drivetrain bind only at full lock low speed turns). this only started happening after getting the bilsteins on as it was fine when the car had the old blitz coilovers and camber (swapped them out for bilsteins because they were crusty as hell and one was blown). I assume this is because 9.5 width is too wide for a legacy with oem suspension and neutral camber alignment, but if anyone else has any other ideas please do let me know.

this brings us to what I want to do next. I bought the car especially with the ts9s and not the stockers thinking that I could sell/trade the ts9s down the line for wheels that I liked more. unfortunately where I live the used aftermarket parts scene is mostly dead and populated with facebook people I don't want to deal with lmao, so I'm going to have a set shipped in from japan. a few sets have caught my eyes, and good sets of wheels are much cheaper over there than they are here new, even including the shipping fees from japan. unfortunately, I can't fitment test nor return wheels shipped from japan, so I need to know a few things before I pull the trigger.

the three main contenders for me are (in order of personal preference and with tires I would get):

-set of enkei pf05 17x9 +40 (would get falken azenis rt615k+ 255/40/17)
-set of ssr gtx01 17x8 +45 (either firehawk indy 500 or advan fleva 235/45/17)
-set of ssr type-f 18x7.5 +48 (azenis rt615k+ 225/40/18)

I know the ssrs will fit without any issue as they're not aggressive at all, but my concern is the fact that the pf05s are cheaper and more aggressive with the fitment. not only that, I won't be losing much (if any) tread width compared to the 9.5 ts9s with these pf05s and I would love the look of filled fenders with a meaty set of r-compounds. I do plan to (hopefully) autocross sometime this summer, so they won't be just for show. but I REALLY don't want to order this set and get it all nicely installed only find out they're hitting tierods again. so, it would be good if I knew beforehand, since this is a dealbreaker for me. if 17x9 +40 will hit the tierods or otherwise cause fitment issues (i.e. rubbing or sticking out of fenders). this is the main thing I would like to know.

don't get me wrong, I do like the ts9s but they're too wide (sticking out the fenders badly with bilsteins and neutral alignment), curbed and matte black which is not my preferred color of wheel on a grey car lol. also don't like the 255/35 firehawks, they look too thin and stretched. the fact that I also need new tires is also encouraging me to get a whole different set of wheels too.

this next part is more fitting for the suspension section, but I'll ask here since it also concerns fitment. I want to get a set of rs-r f012d lowering springs (which are prob going to ruin my ride quality lol) at the same time as my wheel order from japan, and according to their site it will lower the front by 35-40mm and the rear by 20-25mm, which is quite an aggressive drop. I imagine the sizing down to 17" wheels will offset a bit of the potential rubbing issues, but I can't help worrying about it. I'm also going to take it to a good local subaru shop for the lowering spring install, and I imagine they'd be willing to do negative camber unlike the mom and pop shop in town, so I'm also looking at either -1.5deg front -1deg rear or -1.5deg all around camber with these springs. however, I'm very green in terms of my suspension knowledge so the type of adjustment I mentioned might not even be possible. I just hope 17x9 wheels with lowering springs + camber isn't a terrible idea, so please let me know if it is.

 

also gonna upload some pictures that explain my problems with the ts9s better. check the fitment up front. thanks for reading :) 

[Code]

255 is very wide for our chassis and fenders. I had some 245s that ran wide (direzza z2 star spec) and it was a huge pain in the ass to get them to fit. In addition to that they killed the steering feel. 

[pleiadesfella]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:32 PM, Code said:

255 is very wide for our chassis and fenders. I had some 245s that ran wide (direzza z2 star spec) and it was a huge pain in the ass to get them to fit. In addition to that they killed the steering feel. 

damn, and I especially wanted tires that ran wide after the narrow indy 500s. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on the gtx01s then. found a blog page of a japanese fella and he has basically the exact type of height and fitment I want with the gtx01s, tho I don't know his wheel specs. but I do know that his tires are 235/45/17 and they fit without any stretching so I assume its the same spec I'm looking at getting. just sucks that I can't get the rt615k+ in 235/45 as cheap as I can get it in 255/40 for whatever reason, so I'm likely gonna go with the flevas. only issue would be that he has coils and I'm only on bilsteins, so I'm hoping the rs-r springs are also this kind of a drop:

Edited February 2, 2023 by pleiadesfella

[m sprank]

255 not going to fit without modification to the fenders, wells, etc.  245 requires pulling the fenders, not just rolling them. 

[pleiadesfella]

58 minutes ago, m sprank said:

255 not going to fit without modification to the fenders, wells, etc.  245 requires pulling the fenders, not just rolling them. 

huh, that's strange since I already have 255/35/18s on the car right now, and the only real issue is the judder on low speed full lock turns. previous owner wasn't able to meet in person and disclose fully what the car exactly had done as he was in the military during time of purchase, so I'm really not sure if this was done. I did see the car on a jack with the wheels off before (though not up close) and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. unfortunately I also currently don't have access to the car to check/take pics of the fenders and liners since its in storage 65km away from me lol.

I do have some more pics of the car but like you can see in my first post, the front wheels are sticking out like crazy from the sides, so I assume fenders have not been pulled at all, at least not from what I could tell from looking at it side by side with my gt.

[m sprank]

Pulling fenders on a Subie is not easy. More an art form. A few track cars run 255.  But wheel fitment is very specific and work must be done for a proper alignment and operation.  The chassis is not designed for it.

 

You already said you think the wheels hit the tie rids at lock out. So you are saying it fits fine???  Maybe we have a difference in opinion on what proper, safe working conditions are. 

[pleiadesfella]

12 hours ago, m sprank said:

Pulling fenders on a Subie is not easy. More an art form. A few track cars run 255.  But wheel fitment is very specific and work must be done for a proper alignment and operation.  The chassis is not designed for it.

 

You already said you think the wheels hit the tie rids at lock out. So you are saying it fits fine???  Maybe we have a difference in opinion on what proper, safe working conditions are. 

oh no, what I meant was that the wheels were already installed and was fine most part except for the tie rod thing. there was no rubbing at all, and I've gone high speed over some bumpy roads without feeling unsafe. and with the blitz coils on there was no issue with the tie rods somehow, that only became an issue on the bilsteins. I do agree with you that wheels hitting tierods is not a good thing, which is why I'm looking at getting 8" wide wheels with 235s. just wanted to know if 9" with 255s would fit a bit better than 9.5" with 255 but now I know that its not much of a difference lol.

[m sprank]

Its all about offest and ride height. 235 fits very nice on an 8" wide wheel with proper offest.  RPF1 comes to mind.   245 requires work.  Your car rides "high" compared to most. Dropped 1.5" and the lost fender gap creates a world of issues. I have pix posted in the 4th gen pic forum of several LGTs dropped with agressive wheel/tire combos. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by m sprank

[pleiadesfella]

45 minutes ago, m sprank said:

Its all about offest and ride height. 235 fits very nice on an 8" wide wheel with proper offest.  RPF1 comes to mind.   245 requires work.  Your car rides "high" compared to most. Dropped 1.5" and the lost fender gap creates a world of issues. I have pix posted in the 4th gen pic forum of several LGTs dropped with agressive wheel/tire combos. 

offset I'm looking to get is +45, which I think is pretty conservative (considering stock is +55) and looking for a drop of 35-40mm (~1.5in) up front and 20-25mm (~1in) for the rear with lowering springs. I don't think the drop will cause an issue because like I said, the car already had coils and 18x9.5 wheels without any rubbing at time of purchase, so there must have already been some fender modification done to make it all work, I'd be really surprised if there wasn't. I'll check your pics for sure.

Edited February 4, 2023 by pleiadesfella

[m sprank]

Probably already cut and/or rolled. Cars steering is generally negatively affected by tires so wide.  Not too many choices in lowering spring anymore. 

[pleiadesfella]

4 hours ago, m sprank said:

Probably already cut and/or rolled. Cars steering is generally negatively affected by tires so wide.  Not too many choices in lowering spring anymore. 

yes but if I go down to 17x8 with 235 width tires then I will have more choice in lowering springs correct? I do NOT intend to use 255 anymore, not with my current wheels nor with any future ones I will purchase.

[m sprank]

I suppose. New world, people want smaller wheels.  Used to get asked to tuck 19's and 20's.  Now they want to go back to stock, lol. 

Coils and 18's. Choose your hieght. KW V2s ride very nice on the street and can handle light track duty.  Does RCE still.make Tarmacs?  They were KWs revalved and sprung.  Also very nice.  

[pleiadesfella]

2 hours ago, m sprank said:

I suppose. New world, people want smaller wheels.  Used to get asked to tuck 19's and 20's.  Now they want to go back to stock, lol. 

Coils and 18's. Choose your hieght. KW V2s ride very nice on the street and can handle light track duty.  Does RCE still.make Tarmacs?  They were KWs revalved and sprung.  Also very nice.  

heh, never thought I'd be wanting to go down from 18 to 17 but man after seeing some spec b builds with some wider 17s I realized I loved the look. I can get 18x7.5 advan rz for nearly the same price as the gtx01s tho lol. anyway, I'm not dropping $2k+ for kw v2 or even $1k for isc or bc coils because I'd rather save the money for the oiling mods (and tires for the new wheels) I still need to install on the spec b. doesn't help that I live in a place plagued with insane potholes and have actually broke a spring on my gt before.

 

$2k for kw v2 or $200 for some lowering springs designed for my bilsteins shipped in from japan. the choice is clear to me :)

 

 

[m sprank]

A prime example of why the good shops are gone.  Dont want good parts or advice, want cheap parts and can do it all themselves. 

 

Carry on. Doing it right for a luxury sports sedan costs too much.  A 2008 LGT was $50k USD in Japan.  $30k in US.  

[pleiadesfella]

9 minutes ago, m sprank said:

A prime example of why the good shops are gone.  Dont want good parts or advice, want cheap parts and can do it all themselves. 

 

Carry on. Doing it right for a luxury sports sedan costs too much.  A 2008 LGT was $50k USD in Japan.  $30k in US.  

there are quite a few legacy owners in japan who put s-techs on their bilsteins, so I think I'm making it out alright with proper rs-r springs

 

don't get me wrong, I'd love to get coils if I could but it doesn't help that they start at $1k+ then have the canada tax added onto them here. its just more logical for me to get springs for now, though I would deffo import decent used coils (like hks) if it was possible. maybe I'll get some decent coils later down the line.

[m sprank]

4 minutes ago, pleiadesfella said:

there are quite a few legacy owners in japan who put s-techs on their bilsteins, so I think I'm making it out alright with proper rs-r springs

 

don't get me wrong, I'd love to get coils if I could but it doesn't help that they start at $1k+ then have the canada tax added onto them here. its just more logical for me to get springs for now, though I would deffo import decent used coils (like hks) if it was possible. maybe I'll get some decent coils later down the line.

HKS are not decent coils.  TEIN are crap.  Thats the problem.  JDM does not mean good. Just like there are crap US and crap Chinese companies, Japan is rife with crap companies living off the laurels of 1 good product for 1 car. 

You could not pay me to daily a car with Tein springs or coils. Last time Tein made anything good was 1995. 

[pleiadesfella]

15 minutes ago, m sprank said:

HKS are not decent coils.  TEIN are crap.  Thats the problem.  JDM does not mean good. Just like there are crap US and crap Chinese companies, Japan is rife with crap companies living off the laurels of 1 good product for 1 car. 

You could not pay me to daily a car with Tein springs or coils. Last time Tein made anything good was 1995. 

there's no pleasing you is there... and no, I would never get teins.

see you in 5 years when I can afford kw or ohlins :)

[BoozeRS05]

It’s not as difficult as he makes it out to be.

I had swift wagon springs on bilstein struts for 3 years on my LGT sedan and absolutely loved it, although harsh at times with our shitty roads. You don’t need KWs or ohlins, a good lowering spring and quality struts will be great.

Also, 235 is the sweet spot in my experience for tires. 17x8 +48 and a 225/45/17 should fit basically any suspension setup. Once you move from there, it’s all circumstantial and what you’re willing to deal with. My 17x8 +48 with 235/45/17 setup still rubs, but my fenders are stock and I’m pretty low. 

[m sprank]

Swift springs while decent lower the car more than advertised.  Ran them on my 08 LGT in NYC for almost 1 year.  They were, ok.  I replaced them rather quickly for better.  Will drop the car 1,.5-2".  With SpecB/Bilstein front top hats rear spacers are required to even out the height.  Otherwise you get a "saggy butt".  

 

There were once good options for springs that woukd fit the bill for what the OP is looking for.  Epic Engineering comes immediately to mind. But those have been unavailable for many years.  As time has passed and options have decreased, yes a decent set if coils becomes more an option. You have to pay to play.  I realize the cars are going in 20years old.  But they were not Honda Civics.  They were expensive cars.  Expect to pay a premium to modify a 20yr old. small following, performance import, luxury sedan/wagon.  

 

It pains me to see the cars and scene devolve.  LGT owners were once  proud to not be Honda fan boyz. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by m sprank

[pleiadesfella]

7 hours ago, BoozeRS05 said:

It’s not as difficult as he makes it out to be.

I had swift wagon springs on bilstein struts for 3 years on my LGT sedan and absolutely loved it, although harsh at times with our shitty roads. You don’t need KWs or ohlins, a good lowering spring and quality struts will be great.

Also, 235 is the sweet spot in my experience for tires. 17x8 +48 and a 225/45/17 should fit basically any suspension setup. Once you move from there, it’s all circumstantial and what you’re willing to deal with. My 17x8 +48 with 235/45/17 setup still rubs, but my fenders are stock and I’m pretty low. 

holy shit thank you. you perfectly understand my philosophy of wanting a fun daily that balances form and function without breaking the bank. I don't necessarily need something that's track ready lol. and I can live with the harshness on shit roads we have here too since I've driven on both a broken spring and a blown coilover on our bumpy roads before. I might consider 225/45 if it fits better, but I doubt 235 will be an issue since I did have 9.5" and 255 without any significant issues during regular driving (i.e. not full lock in a parking lot).

I know my spec b must have had some fender modifications under previous ownership (likely fender rolling) as I actually did end up with the ts9s and the 255 firestones they have on my 07 gt before, and the gt became undrivable immediately, even with its stock kybs.

I'll be putting my order in for the set of gtx01s and rs-r springs soon, even if it does make me a honda fanboy :P

[m sprank]

How old the jdm rev c bilsteins?  15yrs?  How many miles?  Are they "quality" anymore or barely a damper?  Things to consider.  KW has a lifetime warranty with FREE rebuilds done in the US.  

 

I have had sets rebuilt prior to selling used and recouped 80% of my initial investment. 

 

Pix of fenders, an aggressive fitment on an 05 LGT wagon.  Cusco coils, 235/35/19.

Edited February 5, 2023 by m sprank

[pleiadesfella]

3 hours ago, m sprank said:

How old the jdm rev c bilsteins?  15yrs?  How many miles?  Are they "quality" anymore or barely a damper?  Things to consider.  KW has a lifetime warranty with FREE rebuilds done in the US.  

 

I have had sets rebuilt prior to selling used and recouped 80% of my initial investment. 

 

Pix of fenders, an aggressive fitment on an 05 LGT wagon.  Cusco coils, 235/35/19.

the bilsteins are in great shape overall. I specifically chose the best set the vendor had and he even did the courtesy of giving me better rear shocks than what were shown in the pics too. they ride great, even better than the kybs on my gt and I'm completely happy with them. I was surprised at how much better they were than the kybs on high speed turns on the freeway. will attach pics of one of my front shocks and the blitz coils that came off the car. you'll see why I got the rev c bilsteins :)

and no, you're not going to change my mind about getting springs as opposed to coilovers. yes, kw coils are great and its cool that you get free rebuilds in the us (I'm in canada btw...) but for how much they go for here I might as well save up another extra grand for a shortblock savings fund.

cool wagon btw, I'm pretty sure I've seen it on bringatrailer before. 19s look too big in my opinion but otherwise it's a great build, though if I remember correctly it was automatic :(

 

[m sprank]

Unfortunately, can't tell viability of a shock by looks. Regardless they are used and come with many unknowns. Japanese roads are smoother than US race tracks. So jdm valving is normally too stiff for usdm.  There are reasons Bilstein does not offer the same product here.  I am not enamored with jdm. I prefer the usdm Bilsteins with Epic springs and specb tophats.  New means warranty and known condition.  Springs hold the car up, struts control the bounce.   If you like the swift springs just note the extra drop and probably wanting 3/8" spacers for the rear.

 

Yes the wagon was a 5EAT.  It was not built for power, it was all show. Contracted by Cusco with the owner. Hell, it had a nitrous kit LOL.  Many parts were one of a kind stateside. Many of the parts could not be sold.  So when the car was sold it was not the same.   We completed the car enough to win Best of Show at Subiefest which got us to SEMA.  The pic is SEMA form.  I have pix of the car at SF and on the concourse posted too. 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by m sprank

[pleiadesfella]

37 minutes ago, m sprank said:

Unfortunately, can't tell viability of a shock by looks. Regardless they are used and come with many unknowns. Japanese roads are smoother than US race tracks. So jdm valving is normally too stiff for usdm.  There are reasons Bilstein does not offer the same product here.  I am not enamored with jdm. I prefer the usdm Bilsteins with Epic springs and specb tophats.  New means warranty and known condition.  Springs hold the car up, struts control the bounce.   If you like the swift springs just note the extra drop and probably wanting 3/8" spacers for the rear.

 

Yes the wagon was a 5EAT.  It was not built for power, it was all show. Contracted by Cusco with the owner. Hell, it had a nitrous kit LOL.  Many parts were one of a kind stateside. Many of the parts could not be sold.  So when the car was sold it was not the same.   We completed the car enough to win Best of Show at Subiefest which got us to SEMA.  The pic is SEMA form.  I have pix of the car at SF and on the concourse posted too. 

 

oh man I feel like we're getting off topic with all the suspension talk - maybe I should've made the thread in the supension section lol.

anyway, yes used shocks have a ton of unknowns but I have driven on these shocks and I can tell you there's nothing wrong with them. they're overall in much better shape than the kybs on my 07 gt (which are in extremely terrible shape) and even those are holding up fine. the jdm bilsteins are also smoother over our bumpy roads than the kybs, so go figure. overall I'm happy with them, and that's all that matters

I would like to get swifts but unfortunately they don't come up often on the sites I check, and local availability is basically zero. I'm going with rs-r since I found a new in box set for $90 canadian, and according to rs-r's own website it should be a perfect fit for my car. I'll see if I need spacers when I have them on the car, but I don't think it will be an issue with these springs.

interesting to hear that some of the parts could not be sold alongside that wagon. kinda takes away the appeal of it but contracts are contracts I guess. should've sold me the brakes at least

Edited February 6, 2023 by pleiadesfella

[Underdog]

Have you read the Xenonk FAQ? It will tell you what offset and width will work without interference.