59ctd Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 My daughter's 08 Legacy has one bad front ball joint. Got a quote from the shop where she lives $250 to replace it. My son and I replaced the entire front suspension on his 09 OB last year. New LCAs, struts, knuckles, bearings, everything replaced. Son says this is the 'proper' way to do it and saves the headache of trying to pull the ball joint out of the steering knuckle. He and I are certainly able to do this job but the parts are like $1100 for the whole thing and this is a ~15 yr old Legacy. I did buy the ball joint puller tool but have never used it. How much of a PITA is it to remove the ball joint from the knuckle end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylew Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 depends on rust and if the prior mechanic had any forethought to anti-seize the crap out of it. Ball joint out of control arm - easy ball joint out of knuckle...depends the cheapest route is to keep control arms, knuckles etc and just replace the expendables that need replacing (ball joint, bushings, bearings) if you bought the special ball joint removal tool to get it out of the knuckle, then your should be relatively set Wagon is LIFE! - 265,000 miles and climbing Unofficial Build (Restoration) Thread Steering Rack Rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 When you can't get the ball joint out of the knuckle, a replacement knuckle on line is like $125.00 + ball joint, which Last time I looked was about $40. I would only do what's needed, unless like some of us, you love the car and plan to keep it forever. https://www.carid.com/2008-subaru-legacy-steering-knuckles-spindles/?filter=1&sub-model[Liter][]=2.5L I use Aero-Kroil fluid to cut through the rust. The pinch bolt can be a nightmare. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 I think if you can successfully remove the pinch bolt holding the top of the ball joint in, you're golden. Thing is, those bolts like to seize and break. You'll likely need heat to remove it without breaking. I know there are probably a buncha videos out there for this job, but if you're in MN the job will probably go like this. south main auto vid 1 south main auto vid 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylew Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 South main auto is amazing! Golden advise in those videos Yeah the trick with any penetrating fluid is heat the part (not the knuckle, just the pinch bolt) then spray the gap in the knuckle and head of the bolt with your penetrating fluid of choice. The rapid cooling of the bolt creates a vacuum that sucks in the fluid. This then has 2 things going for you. 1) the expansion and contraction breaks up the rust, and then the fluid actually gets sucked in to do its job. Just penetrating fluid does almost nothing. Use a breaker bar to get a feel for if the bolt is going to snap or if the heat is needed 1 Wagon is LIFE! - 265,000 miles and climbing Unofficial Build (Restoration) Thread Steering Rack Rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59ctd Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 yeah on my son's OB one of the pinch bolts came out and the other broke off. That is what worries me the most and adds a significant expense to the repair to replace the knuckle and potentially other bits if the bearing bolts do not want to cooperate. The biggest question is will the shop she got a quote from take the due diligence to break the pinch bolt free without breaking it off. Daughter lives ~200 miles away so trying to figure out quickest/cheapest way to get it repaired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 The week leading up to the job give both sides of that bolt a sprits of pb or wd daily. I live in the PacNW so I'm lucky to not deal with many rusty cars. I've only ever broken one of those pinch bolts and I've replaced hundreds of ball joints. The one that did break I drilled it out and used a bolt and nut. That 14mm pinch bolt is only 50nm torque spec. The castle is 40... Or maybe 39, with an additional 60° to locate the cotter pin. On ball joints without cotter pins I go to 60nm as I usually got between 55-65 when locating the cotter pin hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 13 hours ago, 59ctd said: The biggest question is will the shop she got a quote from take the due diligence to break the pinch bolt free without breaking it off. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do about a bolt breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59ctd Posted August 25, 2022 Author Share Posted August 25, 2022 Thanks guys for the info and vid links. I ordered two ball joints today and my son and I will give it a go. Looks like penetrating fluid and lots-o-heat is key to getting the pinch bolt to let loose. When the bolt broke on my son's OB a few years back we had put penetrating fluid on it but not the heat. Hopefully the bolt can be heated and coaxed off of my daughters 08 Legacy next week when she is home for a few days. I will post back with details after we work on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted August 25, 2022 Share Posted August 25, 2022 (edited) I can’t find the thread at the moment, but if the ball joint bolt through the knuckle gives you a hard time, there is a DIY method somewhere on LGT.com (or maybe Outback.org??) that involves jacking up the assembly enough to get an impact grade socket in the space between the knuckle and control arm. You then let the arm drop and the socket acts as a fulcrum to drive the two assemblies apart. Basically lets the strut spring do all the work for you…. As the gap opens, you repeat using increasingly larger sockets, until it breaks free…. That is only a basic description, but I’ve used the method a couple times, and it works really well. Of course, heat and penetrant help, but if you don’t remove the CV, the boot is right there, and a torch is dicey. Even an inductive heater can get the area uncomfortably hot… I forget who posted it, but it was pretty ingenious, or so I thought, and it works without having to beat the living daylights out of the knuckle… Edited August 25, 2022 by KZJonny Typing on my phone sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 I remember seein that thread with the socket, I can't find it right now either. This tool is cheaper than I thought and you could probably sell it on ebay after if you wanted to https://www.amazon.com/Astro-Pneumatic-Tool-78620-Subaru/dp/B01JBJFK3C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Ah snap!! NOW you send a link to that. After I did rusty ball joints on both my wagons, and they’re bathed in so much anti-seize they’ll come out just fine. When I was looking there was the Company 23 tool, and the ‘weld up your own’ version. So, I opted for neither and used the impact sockets…. Which are still good for getting the ball joint bolt out of the knuckle if it is seized, so you can use that tool to pull the joint out of the control are btw…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 I just added that tool, link to JmP's sticky, maybe a MOD can make this thread a thread in the DIY forum. I looked through 10 pages there and could not find a thread about this job. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59ctd Posted August 26, 2022 Author Share Posted August 26, 2022 (edited) I have the CTA Tools 8881 Ball Joint Puller and am planning on using this for the job - https://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-8881-Subaru-Puller/dp/B07L4NWFDS I will post how the job progresses mid next week when daughter's car is here. I am planning on pulling the outer CV joint from the bearing and lifting out of the way so I can safely apply lots of heat to that pinch bolt which is likely original. Car is ~15 yrs old orig from NY and last 7 yrs in MN so salt has likely not helped at this point. Edited August 26, 2022 by 59ctd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59ctd Posted September 2, 2022 Author Share Posted September 2, 2022 Daughter and our 2008 Legacy have been home a day and my son and I can find absolutely nothing wrong with the front ball joints. We tried every which way we could think of to make them move or wiggle and they are tight as can be. Frustrating as heck that a shop sees a younger woman and seemingly tries to take advantage when there is no issue with the ball joints. Oh well, at least we now have a set of new ball joints and all the tools for the job on hand for the next one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 Watch the tires for wear. Bad ball joints will show wear on the tires. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59ctd Posted September 2, 2022 Author Share Posted September 2, 2022 24 minutes ago, Max Capacity said: Watch the tires for wear. Bad ball joints will show wear on the tires. Good note. When she is back in a month or so we will check that out. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59ctd Posted October 8, 2022 Author Share Posted October 8, 2022 Update a month later... Daughter lives ~200m away to the north and she was home last week with the 2008 Legacy. We were away on vacation in WI at the time but our son who works at the local Subaru dealer had made an appt for alignment (and to check the ball joints...). The ball joint the prior place said was loose was indeed bad and the other on the left side was marginal loose as well. We had both replacement ball joints in my shop. Son asked at work/Subie dealer how much to replace the ball joints and they said a bit over $200 using our new parts. It was a bit of a no-brainer to say go on this and have them swap them out. He said they used "LOTS of fire" on the pinch bolts and wet towels on the CV boots to disassemble and it came apart faster than he was able to observe on his passes through the shop (son is the store Lot Tech). Ball joints are done on our 2008 Legacy 2.5i. Most likely the next one will be my mom's 2006 3.0 Outback Sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 yep, with proper tools and torches, anything is easy. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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