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Legacy died while driving, now wont start


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Hey guys

2005 Subaru Legacy GT LTD w/ 253,000 miles, automatic and all stock besides drop in K&N. 

 

Bought the car at 250,000 mi. Great condition, previous owner took care of the car and babied it and turbo was supposedly replaced shortly before sale. My first turbo car, so kind of learning as I go along here. 

 

Car was running great when we bought it. Was already aware it was in need of a front half shaft and transmission mount. Since purchase: changed oil, replaced pass front half shaft, replaced 2 engine mounts, top wishbone mount and transmission mount, changed spark plugs. Not too long after purchase, started throwing P0244 for overboost. I could hear a vacuum leak at idle and found a vacuum line going from the blow off valve to the boost controller disconnected and another vacuum line cracked going from same area to driver side firewall. Reconnected the vacuum line and replaced the crack one, car was good. Couple days later idle was rough and sounded like another vacuum leak, this time was the hose coming off the wastegate - reconnected that one as well. At this point car was back to a nice smooth idle, but felt sluggish when first accelerating (apparently bit of a known issue). Ran great in the middle RPM range but seemed to be having fuel issues in higher RPMs as I could feel slight mis fire. I have thrown pending code P0302 3 times now, but never an actual code only pending. Been babying the car as much as possible while trying to figure out what was wrong. 

 

(93 degrees outside and car was under 1/4 tank gas) 3 nights ago I was accelerating from a stop, took a hard left turn and was then accelerating to merge with freeway traffic. After coming out of the turn, I realized RPMs were high and the car was not shifting from 2nd to 3rd. I let off the gas and then stepped back on it which did make the car shift - no sooner did it hit third CEL started flashing. I ended up stopping at the top of the on ramp instead of merging on to the freeway. But when I pulled off to the side and put car in park, it sputtered out until it died on its own. Car was towed home and has not been able to start since. Once it was home, scanned for codes but only got P0302 as pending again. Car then sat untouched until following day. 

First thoughts were fuel pump. Went out to the car and it was completely dead, battery barely registering 4 volts. Battery was getting to its end of life, but was not having any charging issues before all this happened. Hooked up jumper cables and just let the car sit and soak in the charge. Battery now testing at 12.2 volts - I removed the back seat and was able to probe for 12v at the pumps electrical plug. I can also sit inside the car and hear the pump prime every key turn. Did read online about the small possibility of air entering the fuel lines and that priming the fuel pump should purge that air from the fuel lines. After doing this a dozen times, attempted to start the car which cranks like it wants to start, you can hear a faint thud while it's cranking and after 2-3 seconds the engine starts shaking while still cranking - but it will not catch and actually start. Once tried once and stopped, didn't want to continue cranking and potentially cause more damage. 

Battery has completely died again since, apparently it will not hold a charge what so ever. Not sure if anything with the tow couldve caused something or if this was just pure coincidence. 

 

Car has me stumped at this point - any ideas? 

subie.jpg

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Yeah just to elaborate a little.. If one of these cars is sold with a recently replaced turbo, that means the old one could have blown up and sent metal into the lubrication system, where it can go into the oil cooler and such if that's not replaced as well.

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I could be wrong, but I think you're overthinking things here. When you run a stupid K&N filter on our cars you end up dirtying up and killing the MAF sensor rather quickly. I'd be willing to bet that you could probably unplug the MAF and the car would start. Could be wrong. My car had all the same sort of funky symptoms yours had and my MAF sensor needed to be replaced.

Beyond that, perhaps try pulling the plugs and seeing if anything looks amiss? 

Edited by Pleides
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10 minutes ago, Pleides said:

I could be wrong, but I think you're overthinking things here. When you run a stupid K&N filter on our cars you end up dirtying up and killing the MAF sensor rather quickly. I'd be willing to bet that you could probably unplug the MAF and the car would start. Could be wrong. My car had all the same sort of funky symptoms yours had and my MAF sensor needed to be replaced.

Beyond that, perhaps try pulling the plugs and seeing if anything looks amiss? 

To be fair, K&N filters usually only cause issues when over oiled. I've used them for years without problems. 

That said, unplugging your MAF might be a good test to see if it makes a difference; it is it a real warning sign that the turbo was replaced right before sale.

May also want to pull the timing cover ends off and make sure that it's still properly timed.

Edited by Infosecdad
Still thinking about it...
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Thanks guys. I'll try unplugging the MAF when I get home, see if that changes any. I did clean the MAF when putting in the K&N (Carefully with CRC MAF Cleaner) 

Unfortunately the more I've been searching the more i've read into blown turbos, banjo bolt, etc.... :( Kind of kicking myself in the butt for not doing more research before purchasing the car. 

Working on getting a compression test and leakdown test done, as mentioned above. Sounds like that might help shed some light. Does the battery all of a sudden not holding a charge play into this at all? 

None of the grounds I have come across so far looked too bad, although upgrading all of the grounds was on the to do list.  

 

Thank you for all the help, much appreciated!

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3 hours ago, Jeremie said:

Thanks guys. I'll try unplugging the MAF when I get home, see if that changes any. I did clean the MAF when putting in the K&N (Carefully with CRC MAF Cleaner) 

Unfortunately the more I've been searching the more i've read into blown turbos, banjo bolt, etc.... :( Kind of kicking myself in the butt for not doing more research before purchasing the car. 

Working on getting a compression test and leakdown test done, as mentioned above. Sounds like that might help shed some light. Does the battery all of a sudden not holding a charge play into this at all? 

None of the grounds I have come across so far looked too bad, although upgrading all of the grounds was on the to do list.  

 

Thank you for all the help, much appreciated!

Yea, if your battery isn't holding a charge it could be your alternator took a crap and isn't actually charging your battery. Have you tested the alternator? 

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Car was dead again, hooked up the jumper cables. Unplugging the MAF and cranking had little to no change. Only noticeable difference was the thud I thought I was hearing prior didn’t seem to be there 🤷
 

Before I cranked the car, noticed cruise light was flashing. Last time I touched the car there were no codes showing when I was done and walked away. Reader now showed the following: P0102 (MAF disconnected) showed as primary, P0113/P0700/P0817 showed as pending. 
 

why would I throw a bunch of codes after hooking up jumper cables and turning the key to on?

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1st 2 codes are for you disconnecting the maf, p0102 and p0113, the other 2, p0700 and p0817 are for your dead battery, basically something isn't getting the right amount of current/voltage. All that jumping on a dead battery is bugging out your electrical components. Those 2 codes are transmission communication related. 

Sounds like you have an electrical problem. I would test that alternator and change that battery if its not holding a charge. Its not holding a charge or something is draining it, how old is the battery? Time to bust out the multimeter and start testing. 

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I also had MAF issues that made the car run like crap, knock, and retard timing. New (not reman) Denso part fixed it. 

Sounds like you may have a short. Might be the result of a shoddy turbo replacement job: disconnected/damaged vac lines, could have nicked the wiring harness if not run in original locations, etc. I would test the alternator and the battery before diving into tracking down a short, though. A battery that is down to 4.x volts is basically perma-dead and needs to be replaced, no matter how many times you try to charge it.

Edited by JF1GG29
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Harness stuff usually throws up a code right away. Like misfire if you mess up an injector line, crank and cam position codes those sensors(actually the crank can just die and not throw up a code, I learned that the hard way, car wouldn't start when sensor got hot and no codes) cam position definitely throws a code, tgvs throw codes, ocvs as well. Yea most of the important bits that stop the car woulda thrown a code by now. 

A bad battery can't screw up an alternator, but a bad alternator can fubar your battery. That's why I am guessing your alternator was on the way out and took your battery with it.  Not sure how you test an alternator without the motor running, probably google that. I think the alternator needs to have a magnetic charge so a screwdriver or something should stick to it at certain locations, thats the quick and dirty way i know. 

But i agree with changing the battery regardless. You have to at that point.  

Also make sure all your terminals are properly tightened down, and the line from the alternator is properly tightened as well. Verify all that stuff, your fuses etc. A fully charged battery should be able to start the car even with or without the alternator. 

If its not electrical then you gotta test everything else, fuel pressure(might be fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator), vacuum leaks but those usually throw a code as well.

Did you get the car towed on a flatbed!? These cars have to be towed on a flatbed, just had to ask. 

If your battery keeps dying then you probably wont be able to see proper codes now that i am thinking about it, don't dead batteries reset the ecu? If the ecu can't remember what the hell is going on, it may not trigger anything. Fix that battery or try jumping with another car thats running. 

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Thanks guys. Sounds like I'm a little stuck until I drop in a new battery. No clue the age of it, but clearly it has to be replaced. I'll have to do some searching into testing the alternator - otherwise might have to just remove it and take it to get bench tested.

It would make sense for something to happen during the turbo replacement that could cause issues (damaged vacuum, nick in harness, etc) - but I've put on 4,000K since I got it and previous owner only said turbo was replacement not too long before the sale. So I'm not 100% sure how long it has been since the turbo change. 

The only constant lingering problem I've had since getting the car home was P0244 for overboost. 

Yes vehicle was towed on a flatbed. I will go thru and start double checking fuses. Also read the instructions for hunting down parasitic drains. 

That probably just about narrows down the electrical side I think. Everytime I have done something to the car I've had to do so with my other vehicle attached with jumper cables.... But the battery wont hold any charge, it slowly goes back to dead dead. 

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If the car keeps cranking and wont start with the new battery, and no codes. Then I would pull the timing covers off and check the timing. I just realized you have a lot of miles on that motor. Do you know when the timing belt was last changed? It needs to be changed like every 90-100k miles i think, or something like that. With 260k miles, you shoulda had it done twice already and getting close to the 3rd. 

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Update 

 

went thru all the fuses both inside and under the hood, not a single one blown. Dropped in a new battery and car maybe and extra second or two of cranking, but it started and idles. I only let it run a couple of seconds before turning off, it’s idling pretty rough. Engine is shaking. I can hear a hissing, but not finding any vacuum leaks or disconnected lines. Almost sounds like the hissing is coming from the alternator (next on the list to check out anyways). In park and neutral, slowly raising the idle I get a flashing CEL at 3k rpm but goes away if I let off and rpm’s go down. Only code I pull is a pending P0302. When rpm’s did hit 3k, there was a rattle that started. I’ve heard that noise before, usually when car was in higher rpm’s - usually followed with P0244. When the car initially broke down merging on the freeway and I realized transmission wasn’t shifting from 2nd to 3rd I heard the same noise before letting off the gas (had pulled over and car died back then). 
 

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This link could be helpful, and at the very bottom is a picture of the "Blue T" that I remember hearing the turbo guys talk about being a common place for a line to blow off of. A member here named "turkeylord" used to sell upgraded T's  https://www.legacygt.com/topic/103452-subaru-quotblue-teequot-replacement/

and how company23 sells them instead https://www.company23.com/VacuumT

Might also be a good idea to have a shop do a smoke test, ngl I'm too lazy to go back and read if you had one done already

Edited by apexi
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I don't think op did a smoke test. 

I would also check the blue t in the back of the intake manifold, and every other line as well. If you don't know every vacuum line on the car by heart by now then I would start learning real quick cause they can be a real pita moving forward. Inspect the intercooler connections, the intercooler, the vacuum lines behind the intake manifold, the vacuum lines on the turbo inlet, the turbo inlet to turbo connection, the purge valve behind/underneath the alternator. At 250k+ miles some hoses are gonna be hardened and brittle, they will LOOK ok, but could be still be leaking. I would inspect every tube and replace anything that is remotely hard or stiff. The split at the connections easily when hard so you need to look thoroughly. One stupid 50 cent hose will have your car running like trash so you have to be on top of these these vacuum lines. 

Also the misfire could be related or another issue, swap the coil packs to see if the misfire follows, maybe even then injector if that doesn't move the code to another cylinder. But it also could be from your car running like crap. 

The overboost code could be from a lot of things, you probably need a tune. If they replaced the car with a new turbo, then that could be the culprit. Also could be the wastegate might need adjusting, a hose on your ebcs isn't connected or bad, or the ebcs could be bad.... could be a lot of things! 

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Thanks guys. At least we crossed a few things off the list! Lol. Have not done a smoke test, might be time to. I did get pretty familiar with the vacuum lines real quick, already replaced one in the past so I’m sure there must be more that are old and cracking. Sounds like the place to start. 
 

I have picked up a pending 302 code in the past, so there is likely an issue there that was present before all this. I have changed plugs, but not coils. When swapping coils, can the two on the same side be changed with each other do you have to change one with the other side of the engine? Want to say doesn’t matter as I’m mainly checking to see if the issue follows the coils or not….
 

absolutely agree on the overboost being any number of things. I was in the process of learning and working thru that issue before all this happened. Was leaning towards the wastegate or ebcs, which I have checked to make sure was connected. 

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So I am going to just say what no onw has mentioned or will say. First thing you do to any turbo subie is send it to the nearest Subaru performance shop that is well known even if it is 2-3 hours away. If you can't do that, you Change all fluids, plugs, filters, clean MAF, new battery unless you have a receipt that it's new, have the turbo checked. Also there are parts that must be changed at that many miles on the car.

If your going to keep that car, fix the problems get it running right and then save up for a short block, and so on. It took me 3-4 years to get my car where I want it. It has a smoked turbo and motor from the prev owner. Trust no one that sells a turbo subaru on what they tell you ever. I really hope you save this one and keep it going. 

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3 hours ago, NORULZleggy said:

So I am going to just say what no onw has mentioned or will say. First thing you do to any turbo subie is send it to the nearest Subaru performance shop that is well known even if it is 2-3 hours away. If you can't do that, you Change all fluids, plugs, filters, clean MAF, new battery unless you have a receipt that it's new, have the turbo checked. Also there are parts that must be changed at that many miles on the car.

If your going to keep that car, fix the problems get it running right and then save up for a short block, and so on. It took me 3-4 years to get my car where I want it. It has a smoked turbo and motor from the prev owner. Trust no one that sells a turbo subaru on what they tell you ever. I really hope you save this one and keep it going. 

Very true! Almost forgot the basics. You can't take anyones word on the condition of the car. At 250k+ miles, I would have done a compression test at least to check if everything is still sealing like valves and piston rings. OP have you done a compression test or is everything based on the old sellers word? People usually don't sell these cars in perfect condition, its like an oxymoron, if it was in perfect condition they would probably keep it lol.  Never trust anyone selling a turbo subaru! 

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I agree with both you guys. I saw the car, eyes got big and I neglected going thru the normal test I should have had done prior to purchasing. That was entirely my fault - I mean, first turbo car remember? I do have receipts for a good amount of things that were done by the previous owner. And just had a compression tester arrive yesterday, so do plan on getting that done shortly as well. Luckily at this time it's not my only vehicle, so it hasn't been a big issue having it not working at the moment.

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So I’ve gone over all the vacuum lines and connections. Nothing was disconnected anywhere and no visible cracks seen - some hoses are rather hard but also don’t seem to be leaking at this time. I attached a bunch of pictures - maybe someone will see something I’m not. 
 

Will try swapping coils on the #2 cylinder next. 

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