Clutch just exploded, ideas on replacement?

[shralp]

Well... NOT the route that I wanted to go but based on my previous experience with Zac at ZF Design in Colorado, he's going to build my 5MT. Subaru 5MT trannys are indefinitely backordered which is no surprise, they may not even make any more. Zac built the upgraded 6MT for my track car about 5 years ago and its still going strong without a hitch. For me, sourcing a used 5MT of unknown condition just to save some cash and have it go down on me again in the future is just not an option. Could go WRX 6MT but again I really don't want used and a new one, well, you know, big $.

 

So 5MT getting built up and most likely shipped out by first of the week. Going with upgraded RA gear set 1-4, stock 5th. 1-4 RA's are a little bit shorter than the standard gearset so Zac said it will feel like a 30hp increase. Also opting for the upgraded carbon synchros and his "stiff shifter" upgrade which makes shifts much more crisp and precise, (not the same thing as adding bushings which I'll add as well).

 

With low miles on a new shortblock and refurbed heads done at Cobb Surgeline a few years ago, I'm definitely in it for the long run now. Good thing I like the car so much...

Edited June 22, 2022 by shralp

[Pleides]

Well... NOT the route that I wanted to go but based on my previous experience with Zac at ZF Design in Colorado, he's going to build my 5MT. Subaru 5MT trannys are indefinitely backordered which is no surprise, they may not even make any more. Zac built the upgraded 6MT for my track car about 5 years ago and its still going strong without a hitch. For me, sourcing a used 5MT of unknown condition just to save some cash and have it go down on me again in the future is just not an option. Could go WRX 6MT but again I really don't want used and a new one, well, you know, big $.

 

So 5MT getting built up and most likely shipped out by first of the week. Going with upgraded RA gear set 1-4, stock 5th. 1-4 RA's are a little bit shorter than the standard gearset so Zac said it will feel like a 30hp increase. Also opting for the upgraded carbon synchros and his "stiff shifter" upgrade which makes shifts much more crisp and precise, (not the same thing as adding bushings which I'll add as well).

 

With low miles on a new shortblock and refurbed heads done at Cobb Surgeline a few years ago, I'm definitely in it for the long run now. Good thing I like the car so much...

 

I was gonna say, a blown transmission on an 08 XT would warrant me selling it, but we all like our toys, or daily driver toys. Is the wagon on daily duty for now?

 

Bummer about your engine starting to let go. I've always held the belief that, if your car is running enough power over stock that it requires a built motor, that you should just get a car with a bigger engine and not deal with the headache of a built motor. All it does is induce headaches at the benefit of improved resistance to knock. If your car is tuned right to begin with and your turbo is small enough, to me it makes most sense to just put a normal engine in it. However... for your track car? Maybe it's time to get a nice rotated setup and forged engine going? You've already got most of the supporting mods for something like a Dom 1.5XT, right?

[shralp]

I was gonna say, a blown transmission on an 08 XT would warrant me selling it, but we all like our toys, or daily driver toys. Is the wagon on daily duty for now?

 

Bummer about your engine starting to let go. I've always held the belief that, if your car is running enough power over stock that it requires a built motor, that you should just get a car with a bigger engine and not deal with the headache of a built motor. All it does is induce headaches at the benefit of improved resistance to knock. If your car is tuned right to begin with and your turbo is small enough, to me it makes most sense to just put a normal engine in it. However... for your track car? Maybe it's time to get a nice rotated setup and forged engine going? You've already got most of the supporting mods for something like a Dom 1.5XT, right?

 

Yup definitely entered my mind to just cut my losses for sure. But to what end I guess? Fix and sell for way less than I have into it or not fix and have a lump, (or a potential extracted part out proposition which I'm not interested in). Kinda raked over the coals either way. If it didn't have a factory shortblock and completely rebuilt heads, (Cobb/Surgeline 2018) and JMP's nice 11 blade vf-52, I'd walk without a doubt. But I do have all that already in the car so I guess that swung the scales for me. And honestly, I have to admit, the Outback is my daily, that means its a "family car" when stuff breaks on the "family car" then the "family" pays for it. Wifey is a champ and we can absorb it.

 

As for the track car, thats a "fun" car and its all on me So yup, track car is running a forged motor already. Popped a ringland on the OEM motor after 8 seasons of tracking / daily driving it. Put in a Rallipsec forged motor in '16, (Cosworth 4032 forged pistons, not typical 2618). Yeah the motor is starting to put down less power although a recent look from the tuner essentially points to the fact everything on the whole is fairly happy, its rings that are most likely the culprit. Bottom line, any motor put on the track and pinned out long term term will wear. Mine is no exception. I'm chasing down 15 years putting the Legacy on the track in some form of modification or another. I can say that the majority of guys I spend time with at the track, all makes and models, are continually chasing down something wrong with the car, from slight to monumental. Track time is ultimate abuse. Regardless of build, that reality has really become apparent to me over the years. Because of this, the next motor for the track car won't be anything more extravagant. If I was putting down big power on the track then it would be a necessity but thats not part of any long term goal. You're always putting wear on a motor regardless of power output on track, no way around it. So yup, will most likely put in a IAG stg. 2.5 Tuff when I'm ready and you guessed it, probably a Dom. 1.5XT-R with the larger 10cm hotside. The only reason for adding a few hundred for the stg. 2 Tuff over the stg. 2 is the addition of their precision bore to 99.75mm to fix the slight variances in case half alignment that the block sees from the factory. Not a big deal in a daily that you're getting on here and there for short spurts but a huge deal for tracking full on 30 min at time. I'll still be under 400whp and reasonable boost so closed deck, for instance, won't really add any durability for me. Not matter what I do, that IAG motor will wear out too On a side note, a long time friend just had the sequential gear box rebuilt in his 997 GT3 Cup car. The bill ran him close to $40K!!

[shralp]

Well that was quick, ZF Design RA spec geared 5MT ready to get out the door to Oregon

[Max Capacity]

Nice. $$$$

 

I just googled that tranny. Did the option boxes. Yeah that about what a rebuild cost from a tranny shop.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Max Capacity

[shralp]

Nice. $$$$

 

I just googled that tranny. Did the option boxes. Yeah that about what a rebuild cost from a tranny shop.

 

Yup not exactly cheap. I love my wife

[KZJonny]

I'm in the same boat(ish) as I was looking for a new clutch to replace the OEM when it eventually (inevitably) let's the smoke out with my new turbo (Stage ~2) upgrades.

 

I had a good chat with a number of people including the sales guy at Spec. He recommended the Spec Stage 1 or 2+ for my application, and given that it won't see launches or serious abuse, he suggested that the Stage 1 would be more than enough for my needs. (He also suggested staying away from the Stage 2 for daily driving)

 

I was really considering the South Bend as well, and they get lots of kudos here and from local tuners, but given that it looks like I'll be sitting around 275 whp and maybe a touch more than that for torque, the Spec Stage 1 felt like a good deal for ~$400 less... SMFW required of course.

 

Time will tell, but that was at least the result of a lot of research and phone time. I have it in a box beside me as write, and I can at least testify that build quality and finish are excellent.

[Pleides]

Yup definitely entered my mind to just cut my losses for sure. But to what end I guess? Fix and sell for way less than I have into it or not fix and have a lump, (or a potential extracted part out proposition which I'm not interested in). Kinda raked over the coals either way. If it didn't have a factory shortblock and completely rebuilt heads, (Cobb/Surgeline 2018) and JMP's nice 11 blade vf-52, I'd walk without a doubt. But I do have all that already in the car so I guess that swung the scales for me. And honestly, I have to admit, the Outback is my daily, that means its a "family car" when stuff breaks on the "family car" then the "family" pays for it. Wifey is a champ and we can absorb it.

 

As for the track car, thats a "fun" car and its all on me So yup, track car is running a forged motor already. Popped a ringland on the OEM motor after 8 seasons of tracking / daily driving it. Put in a Rallipsec forged motor in '16, (Cosworth 4032 forged pistons, not typical 2618). Yeah the motor is starting to put down less power although a recent look from the tuner essentially points to the fact everything on the whole is fairly happy, its rings that are most likely the culprit. Bottom line, any motor put on the track and pinned out long term term will wear. Mine is no exception. I'm chasing down 15 years putting the Legacy on the track in some form of modification or another. I can say that the majority of guys I spend time with at the track, all makes and models, are continually chasing down something wrong with the car, from slight to monumental. Track time is ultimate abuse. Regardless of build, that reality has really become apparent to me over the years. Because of this, the next motor for the track car won't be anything more extravagant. If I was putting down big power on the track then it would be a necessity but thats not part of any long term goal. You're always putting wear on a motor regardless of power output on track, no way around it. So yup, will most likely put in a IAG stg. 2.5 Tuff when I'm ready and you guessed it, probably a Dom. 1.5XT-R with the larger 10cm hotside. The only reason for adding a few hundred for the stg. 2 Tuff over the stg. 2 is the addition of their precision bore to 99.75mm to fix the slight variances in case half alignment that the block sees from the factory. Not a big deal in a daily that you're getting on here and there for short spurts but a huge deal for tracking full on 30 min at time. I'll still be under 400whp and reasonable boost so closed deck, for instance, won't really add any durability for me. Not matter what I do, that IAG motor will wear out too On a side note, a long time friend just had the sequential gear box rebuilt in his 997 GT3 Cup car. The bill ran him close to $40K!!

 

FWIW, my VF52 got 322 WHP on Surgeline's dyno in April. I'd be willing to bet 400 WHP would be cake with a 1.5 XTR!

 

Good luck with the whole... money thing. Every time I think about tracking my car, even once, I think about the cost up front and the cost down the line as everything gets chewed up.

[Pleides]

I'm in the same boat(ish) as I was looking for a new clutch to replace the OEM when it eventually (inevitably) let's the smoke out with my new turbo (Stage ~2) upgrades.

 

I had a good chat with a number of people including the sales guy at Spec. He recommended the Spec Stage 1 or 2+ for my application, and given that it won't see launches or serious abuse, he suggested that the Stage 1 would be more than enough for my needs. (He also suggested staying away from the Stage 2 for daily driving)

 

I was really considering the South Bend as well, and they get lots of kudos here and from local tuners, but given that it looks like I'll be sitting around 275 whp and maybe a touch more than that for torque, the Spec Stage 1 felt like a good deal for ~$400 less... SMFW required of course.

 

Time will tell, but that was at least the result of a lot of research and phone time. I have it in a box beside me as write, and I can at least testify that build quality and finish are excellent.

 

275 WHP should hold fine on a stock clutch, if the heft is a concern to you. Yes, you'll get some clutch slip in snow in reverse or with a mildly clumsy first gear engagement, but might be worth the trade offs and cost.

[Tehnation]

I use the spec stage 3+ clutch, SPEC Clutch SU203F, its carbon semi metallic. Considering my car isn't putting out much power atm its surprisingly light and strong. As for longevity can't say anything yet atm, but he recommended it because it should have a long life like oem as well as high torque capacity, i think 500+. The owner of spec recommended it, so I figured he knows more than I do lol. Edited June 25, 2022 by Tehnation

[KZJonny]

275 WHP should hold fine on a stock clutch, if the heft is a concern to you. Yes, you'll get some clutch slip in snow in reverse or with a mildly clumsy first gear engagement, but might be worth the trade offs and cost.

 

Point taken, but the Spec is an improvement on OEM Exedy I think and gives me a little room for more power down the road. I've severely overbuilt on my mods, so really I could add a bunch more hp/tq just by going to a Custom VF52 and a new tune.

 

I probably won't but if I *did* I'd rather know that I don't have to do another clutch job. Once every few years is enough for me, not my favourite thing to do. Spec claims the Stage 1 is a light as OEM anyway.

 

I'll report back once I've had a chance to install and break it in.

[Max Capacity]

Point taken, but the Spec is an improvement on OEM Exedy I think and gives me a little room for more power down the road. I've severely overbuilt on my mods, so really I could add a bunch more hp/tq just by going to a Custom VF52 and a new tune.

 

I probably won't but if I *did* I'd rather know that I don't have to do another clutch job. Once every few years is enough for me, not my favourite thing to do. Spec claims the Stage 1 is a light as OEM anyway.

 

I'll report back once I've had a chance to install and break it in.

 

Just saying My Spec 2+ has a light pedal feel and holds great. I have gotten great performance out of the 2+, 90,000 miles is easy.

[Tehnation]

If the spec 2+ is similar to my 3+, which i believe it is, then I would go with the spec 2+. Good price and good quality, good company as well. Like I said I tossed out an email to them about what I needed, and after some back and forth with the owner I got an invoice with discount and free shipping.

 

I feel the spec clutch gives me an oem feel and reliability while also still handling whatever i'm throwing at it(I have been beating the crap out of this clutch and after pulling the motor a couple times the clutch is in great shape, granted its less than 2k miles). I get some shuddering at low rpm, like under 3k, but my build is abstract, stage 3 cams and not tunned. But I can drive it like a normal car easily all things considered. So thats why i am thinking the 2+ would work great for your setup.

 

Send Spec an email see what they say! I said I want daily driver reliability and feel while being able to handle 400+ awhp, and the 3+ was the verdict. And if Max likes the spec 2+ and his mods are inline with your mods it seems about right.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Tehnation

[shralp]

Tranny made it here to Bend and Mike at Subietech installed early in the week so I've had it a few days now. Definitely can tell the difference with the shorter RA spec 1-4 gears, they make the car feel like its got a power bump for sure. The shift to OEM 5th drops my RPM's noticeably compared to the close 1-4. Zac at ZF told me to expect a bit more gearbox noise. With the beefier Group N mount added, (mine was apparently completely failing...) and the RA's there is a bit of chatter on deceleration at certain RPM's but other than that its pretty quiet.

 

Liking the ZF's "stiff shifter" mod, its super precise now. Way more than I've ever had with bushings and an aftermarket short shifter. There is absolutely zero play, like zero zero... I was used to all the slop so it took me a few days to get used to it.

 

Ended up going with an Exedy Stage 1 for a clutch, I have the Stage 1 HD in the track car which is putting down much more power and really like it but wanted a more OEM pedal feel. This will hold my power output fine and the pedal feel is nearly OEM. So thats it I guess, all I have to do now is bury the bill in my file cabinet and keep driving

[JoeInOregon]

Very nice , how was your experience with subie tech ?

 

Sadly ARCFLASH stopped returning my calls shortly after the Cobb emissions changes, told me I needed a standalone or they couldn't tune my car and stopped replying when I inquired about cost .

 

Real shame because I couldn't be happier with the work they did on my transmission and clutch

 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[shralp]

Very nice , how was your experience with subie tech ?

 

Sadly ARCFLASH stopped returning my calls shortly after the Cobb emissions changes, told me I needed a standalone or they couldn't tune my car and stopped replying when I inquired about cost .

 

Real shame because I couldn't be happier with the work they did on my transmission and clutch

 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

First time at Subie Tech for me as well. Yup no problems, everything seems to be good to go. I'd feel good about taking my car there for work if Arcflash is too busy, (they are...) and/or they don't want to mess with something. Essentially, this Cobb tuning issue makes it easy for them to just say "no" because its not like they are hurting for work. Kind of a bummer but us Legacy guys are kinda small fish in their really expensive pond.