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MAJOR TUNING NEWS - 4/18 Cobb tuning changes bring serious challenges to tuning


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  • I Donated Too
They still show available for free on Cobb's website... What is the panic about?

 

 

No panic. No Stage 2 maps either... they are all Stage 1 for USDM, why don't you look again? For ADM you can find the Stage 2 maps and they should be the same but they may not load depending how smart the AP is... either way, would be good to find the original maps from an AP for the WRX before they stripped all the Stage 2 maps

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No panic. No Stage 2 maps either... they are all Stage 1 for USDM, why don't you look again? For ADM you can find the Stage 2 maps and they should be the same but they may not load depending how smart the AP is... either way, would be good to find the original maps from an AP for the WRX before they stripped all the Stage 2 maps

 

Ah, I didn't see that the stage 2 was not available... Wow... Glad I already downloaded the Stage 2 stuff for my car. I have only had it for a little while too, that sucks.

 

Anybody have any experience with the OpenPort 2.0 for cheap from the Amazons?

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Ah, I didn't see that the stage 2 was not available... Wow... Glad I already downloaded the Stage 2 stuff for my car. I have only had it for a little while too, that sucks.

 

Anybody have any experience with the OpenPort 2.0 for cheap from the Amazons?

 

Those maps are out there, you just need to know where to get them and who to talk to, also why a map, GET A PROTUNE :spin:.

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Those maps are out there, you just need to know where to get them and who to talk to, also why a map, GET A PROTUNE :spin:.
With a protune, you still use the AP to store and transfer custom maps though, correct? I get mine protuned, but if it still goes through the AP, I wonder if that is gonna mess with anything...

 

Edit: I've got tgv deletes, no cats, etc.

 

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Edited by BridNasty
"This car blows my deployment money faster than it does head gaskets."
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With a protune, you still use the AP to store and transfer custom maps though, correct? I get mine protuned, but if it still goes through the AP, I wonder if that is gonna mess with anything...

 

Edit: I've got tgv deletes, no cats, etc.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

 

The way I read it is that even a pro-tuner is no longer allowed to delete CELs.

"To do this we have made changes to our software that eliminate the chance of creating a file that could be viewed by an emissions regulator as a bypass, defeat, or emissions delete tune/calibration."

 

So the engine emissions sensors have to be convinced they are in normal operating ranges. Not sure how that'll work without TGVs or cats...

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Yeah we do not do emissions where I live so I get your worry. Can you got get inspection in a different county that does only safety? that what I have been doing for years lol until I moved to a place that only does safety inspections. There will be a way around all this. Just give it time.

 

My registration is in Washington County, Oregon. I have to get an inspection from a DEQ or Jiffy Lube. Doesn't matter where it's done, could be anywhere in the state. Just has to pass the OBD check as I live in a major county. I've never had them look under my car.

 

If you live in an area like Gaston or some other rural areas then it doesn't matter. But then I also don't want a check engine light on

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My registration is in Washington County, Oregon. I have to get an inspection from a DEQ or Jiffy Lube. Doesn't matter where it's done, could be anywhere in the state. Just has to pass the OBD check as I live in a major county. I've never had them look under my car.

 

If you live in an area like Gaston or some other rural areas then it doesn't matter. But then I also don't want a check engine light on

 

A little black tape? or judicious smack on the led?

 

I'm from the government. I'm here to help...

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  • I Donated Too
also why a map, GET A PROTUNE :spin:.

 

 

I already have protunes... I have 5 cars, 3 of them with a Cobb AP. I don't need a Protune on all of them, some are just fun DD but the Stage 2 OTS map is what I need for the 2012 WRX right now.

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The way I read it is that even a pro-tuner is no longer allowed to delete CELs.

"To do this we have made changes to our software that eliminate the chance of creating a file that could be viewed by an emissions regulator as a bypass, defeat, or emissions delete tune/calibration."

 

So the engine emissions sensors have to be convinced they are in normal operating ranges. Not sure how that'll work without TGVs or cats...

 

I have the TGVs gone, I do have highflow cat in my DP and all sensors, and none of my stuff is by passed on my 06 LGT. I am telling you, I will be getting my car re-protuned, and there will not be a problem even with having the AP. I am actually going 2 hours from my house where they smog check and do heavy emissions stuff. will report back to you once it done. The tuner assured me there will not be problem. This same type of thing came around when it came to inspection back in the day. people still get done one way or another.

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I have the TGVs gone, I do have highflow cat in my DP and all sensors, and none of my stuff is by passed on my 06 LGT. I am telling you, I will be getting my car re-protuned, and there will not be a problem even with having the AP. I am actually going 2 hours from my house where they smog check and do heavy emissions stuff. will report back to you once it done. The tuner assured me there will not be problem. This same type of thing came around when it came to inspection back in the day. people still get done one way or another.

 

That's awesome, how did you handle the CELs for the missing TGV sensors? I didn't realize there was a way to manage those without disabling the codes.

 

I had to shut them off as I repurposed the TGV inputs for fuel/oil pressure and Wideband. I have all the other ones on with catted downpipe and such.

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A little black tape? or judicious smack on the led?

 

I'm from the government. I'm here to help...

 

Thank you for the help, mr. government.

 

I remember the last time I got DEQ'd. They plugged the thing into my OBD port and after waiting a minute, the guy testing it said "ah wait, I need a different kind of tester for your car." Scared me shitless that he was gonna grab a mirror and look under my car. Nope, it's just that our cars don't have whatever system most cars do that get tested, whether it was EGR or who knows what. Just plugged in a different tester and went on my way.

 

I'll go out of my way to go to a self-tester when I get I need tags again...

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Thank you for the help, mr. government.

 

I remember the last time I got DEQ'd. They plugged the thing into my OBD port and after waiting a minute, the guy testing it said "ah wait, I need a different kind of tester for your car." Scared me shitless that he was gonna grab a mirror and look under my car. Nope, it's just that our cars don't have whatever system most cars do that get tested, whether it was EGR or who knows what. Just plugged in a different tester and went on my way.

 

I'll go out of my way to go to a self-tester when I get I need tags again...

 

05 is barely obd2 compliant. If you have an early build it's actually a 2004. When Seattle required testing, my wagon required special test gear. No cats, etc = no problem. I assumed their gear was crap...

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That's awesome, how did you handle the CELs for the missing TGV sensors? I didn't realize there was a way to manage those without disabling the codes.

 

I had to shut them off as I repurposed the TGV inputs for fuel/oil pressure and Wideband. I have all the other ones on with catted downpipe and such.

 

 

I have seen that removing the butterfly valves but keeping the TGV shaft is one way to work around the problem. But it would still cause some flow restrictions.

 

 

Another way would be to make a small mechanic device where you link the servo and sensor directly. Then from an electrical perspective the system thinks it's fully working but all that happens is that the servo controls the sensor. Requires some mechanical hacking and an extension of the wiring from the sensors or just put the shaft for the TGVs on the outside with some brackets to support the servo and sensor.

 

 

 

With the ability to 3D-print stuff today it wouldn't be too hard to make something of it, just make it look good to ensure that this isn't flagged down at an inspection by some overzealous vehicle inspector.

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I've got a message into my guys at Cobb Surgeline to get some clarification, will post info as soon as I get the scoop.

 

I went in yesterday and called the day after the news broke and Jack said he'd been bombarded with emails. He also said they appear to have some leeway until the 1st to sort out customer cars. Seems some shops were given leeway by Cobb. Not sure how they determined who, but some of it seems to be based on whether the user of the software had particular versions of it. Surgeline always updates their software.

 

He did say that he didn't think I needed to rush out to buy factory TGVs but I did anyways. If my car ever needs tuning with them again, it probably will need them. If I don't need them then somebody will want them in California, I'm sure.

 

He also said they disconnected their tuning laptop from the Internet and are hoping for the best. They're looking into potential alternatives to the Accessport for the customers that will need alternatives. When I called Tuesday morning, things seemed a bit more hectic than when I walked in yesterday and had them look at my injectors. I think they've got ideas. I suggested some IT stuff to potentially prolong the life of the software they currently have.

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This really sucks, I believe I have two options go standalone or open source for any future changes. I have airpump delete codes because I swapped to b25 heads from an 05 ej255 when I built my motor, so no way for me to put the airpump system back.

 

I do believe my tuner has an exception until the end of the month but that doesn't help me moving forward, also considering I don't live in the US this really bothers me that these regulations are so far reaching. The future implications of these changes will lead to the death of the tuner culture. Maybe I'm wrong but this doesn't sit well with me.

#LGTSTi is still cheaper and nicer then an equal year wrxsti

Follow my 2007 Spec B. Build here

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This really sucks, I believe I have two options go standalone or open source for any future changes. I have airpump delete codes because I swapped to b25 heads from an 05 ej255 when I built my motor, so no way for me to put the airpump system back.

 

I do believe my tuner has an exception until the end of the month but that doesn't help me moving forward, also considering I don't live in the US this really bothers me that these regulations are so far reaching. The future implications of these changes will lead to the death of the tuner culture. Maybe I'm wrong but this doesn't sit well with me.

 

I think you're in the right. I accept that it's a bit hypocritical of me to claim I love the environment, greenery, and clean air when I drive a car that's federally illegal due to its pollution that we've tried to leave behind post-California LA smog era, but I think it's more hypocritical of the EPA to crack down on the 10 people per 50,000 who modify their cars to be polluters, most of which aren't driven as much as your average Camry, while not cracking down on Exxon-Mobile and BP for decades of anti-climate change propaganda, oil pollution, the joke that is the slap on the wrist for fracking incidents... You get the picture.

 

The EPA was given a bit more leeway with the current political administration to crack down on pollution, for better or for worse. It is what it is. Oil companies have money to lobby the government than us broke fast boys who spend all of our money on our shitbox 17-year old Subarus. What else is new:lol:

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I went in yesterday and called the day after the news broke and Jack said he'd been bombarded with emails. He also said they appear to have some leeway until the 1st to sort out customer cars. Seems some shops were given leeway by Cobb. Not sure how they determined who, but some of it seems to be based on whether the user of the software had particular versions of it. Surgeline always updates their software.

 

He did say that he didn't think I needed to rush out to buy factory TGVs but I did anyways. If my car ever needs tuning with them again, it probably will need them. If I don't need them then somebody will want them in California, I'm sure.

 

He also said they disconnected their tuning laptop from the Internet and are hoping for the best. They're looking into potential alternatives to the Accessport for the customers that will need alternatives. When I called Tuesday morning, things seemed a bit more hectic than when I walked in yesterday and had them look at my injectors. I think they've got ideas. I suggested some IT stuff to potentially prolong the life of the software they currently have.

 

Gotcha, did a few back and forth txt on Instagram last night with Eric at Surgeline. Seems like other than having to put hacked TGV’s back in at some point, many of us that are running catted DP’s already will come thru fairly unscathed. Although I’m ‘05 so it’s a pre air pump car as well. Anyone wildly modified and/or running flexfuel is in for a world of hurt tho. Other than a costly, (labor) swap out to OEM TGV’s I’m hoping it will work out. I think pulling the butterfly out but leaving the actuators, rod assembly, etc is the answer. After looking at some vids last night i can see that the restriction is pretty minimal with just the rod left inside. It won’t affect me too much, if any, at my power level. Guess that future swap out to a Dom 1.5 XT-R down the road is going to be a bit more expensive:(

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I am currently awaiting to pickup my car after being tuned on Flex Fuel. Basically the only way to do it was to use IAT compensation tables to account for the different mixtures of ethanol. I’ll need to ask more details but there’s no way that they could clear the CELs due to no TGVs and we also cannot data log Wideband AFR’s into the access port so they tune it off the gauge in the car. Not sure how comfortable I feel about the tune honestly. I might chill for a few years until more shops embrace open source tuning and go that road after I look for more power (with a 6speed swap too hopefully). This is just truly terrible timing because they started tuning my car 2 days before the Cobb update. If I got the car there just a week sooner I could have avoided this completely!
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Gotcha, did a few back and forth txt on Instagram last night with Eric at Surgeline. Seems like other than having to put hacked TGV’s back in at some point, many of us that are running catted DP’s already will come thru fairly unscathed. Although I’m ‘05 so it’s a pre air pump car as well. Anyone wildly modified and/or running flexfuel is in for a world of hurt tho. Other than a costly, (labor) swap out to OEM TGV’s I’m hoping it will work out. I think pulling the butterfly out but leaving the actuators, rod assembly, etc is the answer. After looking at some vids last night i can see that the restriction is pretty minimal with just the rod left inside. It won’t affect me too much, if any, at my power level. Guess that future swap out to a Dom 1.5 XT-R down the road is going to be a bit more expensive:(

 

Jack did think that a non-Gesi cat might not fly under the radar but we'll see.

 

If I don't end up needing my topfeed TGVs after next week then I may know a guy who has some who panic bought them....

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Heard back from Brandon at Cobb Surgeline in Portland yesterday - some info below although nothing super earth shattering... I was asking him about how this whole new paradigm would fit into my program, that being an eventual upgrade to an even larger turbo and the fact that I'm running TGV deletes and a catted Cobb DP currently.

 

"Picking up OEM TGV's would be the most cost effective route. They're not going to be a power restriction now or later when you upgrade to a DOM 1.5XT-R. The turbo will still fit with the motors in place and it really is that simply to remove the butterfly valves.

 

IAG announced last month they'll be releasing a new TGV housing that still receives the OEM motors. That might be something worth keeping an eye on but you'd still need the stock parts handy regardless.

 

Up until this year, aftermarket DP's with high flow CAT's still threw CEL's. With the new GESI CAT available, Cobb has managed to make one that doesn't throw codes but it retails for $950!

 

I believe your rear O2 sensor is still intact? Should be at the back of the DP. If it's missing, that sensor will need to be replaced too.

 

(we are losing this function and I asked about clarification) "Gear based boost control allows us to tune boost per gear. We can dial in boost for each gear in case someone's car is prone to overboosting or in say 5th gear compared to 3rd or 4th. It's really handy for motorsport type driving and big turbo setups."

 

Once the shock factory wears off, I believe there's going to be solutions in place for a lot of this. It's just a matter of when and what that will look like.

 

A great Podcast from Flatirons Tuning in the new Cobb announcement here as well.

 

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I got some OEM top feed TGV's lol

 

There is always those old school 02 sensor spacers lol.

 

Im thinking the best option is for anyone above a basic stage two is to sell their accesport (specially ones that have stage 2 loaded)

 

Sell your own tvg's if you have them.

 

Bite the built and go link or mega squirt and never worry about this BS again

 

Really would like a refund for my dam flex kit though.

 

Flex fuel is the real breaking point, at least until someone starts tuning it in open source

 

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Honestly, I'm interested in some sort of "race car exemption" that allows those of us that will never register the car for public road use to be able to work within a more relaxed rule set. Of course thats like less than 1% of the Legacy owners out there. With the ability to tow starting 2023, I'm not sure how long my '05 will continue to stay street legal anyway. I'd rather be able to drive it from time to time on public roads but if my only out is pulling off the roads, I'll go that route. A lot is going to change in the next 12 months I bet with solutions coming online. I've been on great Accesstuner maps for so long now, going on 15 yrs, that I'm going to stay the course if I can find a workable solution.

 

As for my daily, yup way more tricky. Was considering moving beyond my current stg. 2 JMP VF-52 on stock fueling at some point but now I'm just relying on a great tune that I haven't touched in 3 yrs. Hope it keeps running that way for awhile....

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I got some OEM top feed TGV's lol

 

There is always those old school 02 sensor spacers lol.

 

Im thinking the best option is for anyone above a basic stage two is to sell their accesport (specially ones that have stage 2 loaded)

 

Sell your own tvg's if you have them.

 

Bite the built and go link or mega squirt and never worry about this BS again

 

Really would like a refund for my dam flex kit though.

 

Flex fuel is the real breaking point, at least until someone starts tuning it in open source

 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

Did you already try reaching out to cobb for a refund? I bought mine back in nov. of last year and hit them up and should be getting my refund here soon whenever my shipment gets to them.

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