I noticing more push towards crap(cobb) V opensource

[phish27134]

TLDR at bottom...

 

I know I arrived late at the tuning scene, but the internet is forever and documentation isn't going anywhere, more and more opensource is dying, which I get, but I don't wanna see a company that charges based on the name, if I didn't have the cobb air duct I would have bought AEM even if it gave less HP. With my AP on my 08 Spec b it was laughable, if it wasn't constantly over boosting. I know about the the size of the blah may need adjustment according to Subaru Cobb Pros. Who suggested a 3 port more $$$.

 

This doesn't make sense, 2007 stock exhaust injectors cobb intake open tune never overboost, and a little bit bigger vf52 vs 46 or 48 stock.

 

I talked to a private e-tuner and said that 32bit ecu aren't fully, comprehended(reverse engineered), cobb has the $$ for R&D because they change 200 for sheet metal, ripping off on all aspects.

 

Getting ready to skip the cobb bashing thread.....this is about Cobb.

 

This about tuning, I remember my first 97 Impreza I knew of OBDII had usb scanner with laptop, pulling codes, wishing to touch the ecu 16 years ago.

 

Now thanks? to the G*** the mandated that all protocols be released as not to be prosperity software, so nice 3rd party devices such as the idiot proof cobb tuner. I had an AP it came with my 2nd Spec B there were 2 or 3 maps, that wouldn't touch my opensource tune on my 07 spec b with 300 @ wheels. Cobb has too many applications, by nature of liability they tune conservatively.

 

My 2007 spec b was stock, besides opensource tune, cobb air pipe, and a vf52 swap. that's it, no messing with injectors, fuel pumps. OEM exhaust and my dyno chart shows 300+, 300WHP.

 

I apologize for the wall of text, when I got the 2008, it had OEM intake, catback SPT exhaust and a cobb AP.

 

I don't think the cobb did anything, with the 3 maps I was able to download, and all had to be LWD versions. As every map gave the 2008 over boost in various situations.

 

So I spent the ridiculous $$ from the sale of the AP bought tectrix, Innovate Wo2.

 

I'm learning this as I go, making minor changes reading everything I can learn about ecu management w/turbos I also have a BS in Computer Science and have been reversing my 08 spec b for more defs.

 

I wanted to have a pro, look at E-Tuning, I contacted one and this is the one that said we only cobb as opensource and 32bit, maybe he was lazy, I can see how one gets used to a comfy GUI and push buttons, I gre up with MSDOS and use LINUX, I digress. Then I saw an add from a vendor offering discounts but only on cobb tubes.

 

IMHO, seems like everyone one wants the easy way out, spend hours working on mechanical parts but cant read up on Integral or Proportional?

 

I just wanted to say Tectrix $180 (log w/ or not with a computer)

Cobb $750 (not including accessories)

 

Interesting in modifying or adjusting, for only $150 user license you can attend cobb University, where u must watch videos to obtain their Access Tuner so you can edit your own maps.

 

So $1000 and you still don't have a clue.

 

I took my cable killed my over boost, rescaled my MAF, doubt AP does that and ask anyone who is a pro, what you need to do when u change that airbox.

 

 

TOO Long DIDNT READ

 

Seems like possibly Cobb/ Industry moving away from opensource, understandably, as Colby(I believe and others?) who wrote rom raider works for cobb so I understand the project halted. It's written in Java, which the code can be written in a text file not a compiler like other languages, that's how simple it is.

 

For me OPENSOUCE isn't going anywhere, I don't even want a cent, I think its time for a facelift.

 

If you would like to bash Open V. Cobb go ahead, I don't want arguments, post factual information or logical. No HERSAY, logs, roms talk and dyno sheets(speaking) incase u think Im BSin........(Found an old cobb log, it pushed 19.32PSI A/F was 11.14 lowest it goes, my tune is at 16, OEM TMIC blow apart over 19/20PSI?

 

My 2007 Spec B Dyno NO COBB AP stock exhaust just a vf52 no injectors or fuel pump........

[Code]

First off - wHAT are you even trying to say? THIS IS A DIFFICULT READ. stream of consiousness.

 

Second - you compare apples to oranges (o-source custom tune to OTS Cobb)

 

Third - I doubt a vf52 on stock fueling put down 300whp but if it does, it will do so on OS or AP.

 

Fourth - good luck with your tune. There are different ways to get to the same place. Cobb has a great product and I really don’t know why you knock it. It works. It’s proven. Yes it’s a bit spendy from a SUBARU perspective, but really it isn’t very expensive in the grand scheme of car modding. I had nothing but problems with logging on a tactrix for NEARLY A DECADE OF USE. No problems at all logging on my AP. YMMV.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Code

[boxkita]

I'm guessing someone was drinking or high. Or they used the voice to text feature on their fruit phone.

 

Cobb, like them or not, have developed a solid product that targets 90% of the market by hiring the ppl who targeted the other 10%. You can still find open_source tuners but they don't work for Cobb money.

 

When I got my righteous tune 9 years ago, I hired an open source tuner who spent 15+ hours road tuning it and another couple on the dyno. Then came back for a another hour or two to fix "new" issues. Rest assured the tune wasn't $300. You have to pay to play.

 

You don't like Cobb's product? The romraider project is still alive. Feel free to donate money to current dev team, some of whom post on here. Or buy a Java book and learn to program.

 

For comparison sakes, a Motec (about top of the line for a non-factory team) costs $7500 for the replacement ecu. Programming it, is $1000's. But you can control every aspect of the engine, add custom sensors/controllers, output data, etc.

 

If you have money to burn, contact Bosch. They can hook you up. Buy in is millions.

 

A raspberry pi might work too.

 

One of the original romraider programmers said Java was used because that was his current language of choice at the time.

[BrandonspecB]

If only this guy knew what I spent on my stand alone.

[shralp]

Kinda gotta agree with some of the above comments. There is a point to the OP’s post right? If it’s a “everyone should just learn open source and do it themselves” post then ok. If it’s a “Cobb tuning is raping everyone with their price structure”, then ok. I guess I can only say that for those that want to invest the time, risk, and complexity of tuning their own cars should do it. For those of us that don’t want to do that and want to use Cobb AP as the vessel with which to pour all this HP voodoo into, we’ll continue to pay (admittedly), a bit of a premium.

[solidxsnake]

I'm in the middle of developing a RomRaider "replacement" in Python with wxPython as the GUI toolkit. Will be making the repository public in the coming month or two once I've gotten some more of the bugs out of it. Part of my ongoing work with getting dynamic RAM tuning implemented on aijmod. Would love some help from someone who's a competent programmer.... the RR codebase is an absolute nightmare.

 

 

To your point OP: there are a lot of tuners (the majority, I would say) that are not computer-savvy. Running open-source requires some comp-savviness just to get going, and ideally a background in computer engineering to get all the benefits (of which there are still some that OS has over Cobb). Not to mention tuners don't want to deal with oblivious customers who are probably even less technical and wouldn't be able to figure out how to log with RomRaider or similar.

Edited March 18, 2021 by solidxsnake

[Infosecdad]

I might have some time over the summer to help contribute.

[BrandonspecB]

I was hoping OP would return and sort of clarify what he is talking about.

 

What I gather: Has modded car, uses OTS Cobb map, overboosts, mad, buys tactrix cable and wideband, makes a few changes, happy, mad Cobb charges so much for AP.

 

I really hope this doesn't turn into a brain vomit as I type this.

 

I had the same experience with OTS Cobb maps years ago. This is why they give you high/low wastegate maps to dial in boost better. I also have the same issue with stock Subaru maps in my daily. Overboosting piece of shit, so I stuck an MBC on it. Don't have time to dick with that car.

 

I totally agree that if you have a few things you want to tweak and the desire to learn, open source is the way to go. Cheap and easy.

 

But you can't shit on Cobb for doing what they do for the price they do it at. You also can't shit on people that have the proficiancy to throw a downpipe and intake on their car and want to enjoy their car without risking an over boost and their engine. Get an AP, get a Protune, then you have someone you can go to if you have issues. I'm sure some tuners are better than others, but when you tune the same cars over and over using the same software you become really proficient at it. A pro can knock out a tune in a few hours on a simple setup where it might take some one months to figure everything out on their own from scratch.

 

Just cause you change some PID settings and rescaled your MAF doesn't mean you can tune. Wipe all your boost control settings, slap on a big ass turbo, external gate and 3 port and get to work. If you really want to learn a PID controller, start from scratch. And then dial in your idle PID, cruise control PID, closed loop fuel control PID, AVCS PID and probably some others I'm forgetting. Oh and then I have to dick around with PID controllers at work. It wears me out.

 

That thousand dollars Cobb charges for an Accessport and the class that gets you Accesstuner gives you damn near stand alone capability for a fraction of the cost and zero wiring harness issues. What they have done with the factory ECU is amazing. I mean, live tuning, speed density, hybrid MAF/SD, flex fuel for hell's sake. Go look through their custom features. Try doing a spark hook test on a dyno without live tuning.

 

I used AP for many years. When the software was called Accesstuner Race and you didn't have to take a class. I used open source for many years. I actually started tuning in 2006 with open source, just like you. My 2004 Evo, Evoscan, Ecuflash and a Tactrix cable. A Tactrix cable cost like $30 back then. Didn't have a damn clue what I was doing, but got me started data logging, analyzing the data, making changes and seeing what happens from those changes.

 

Just enjoy the ride. No need to shit on cool stuff. The sun is setting on mass produced combustion engines. They've never been better. Be glad there are so many options from so many companies to control your horsepower. The EPA may shut them all down. What's happening right now is dire. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[fahr_side]

I had no problem with what Cobb was charging for the AP. What I resented was that they shut down / poached the top talent from the Opensource community but would not support markets outside the USDM. Almost all my customers as a tuner were in EDM or JDM cars, and a few in ADM. We still had the Opensource standouts that were working on development and definitions, but it wasn't enough. Then they started the pay to play system, fly to the US or get left out. Why would I fly to the US to take classes I could teach, for equipment that doesn't work on the cars my customers own? The Borg won that one. Then you look at the price for systems to edit the factory ECUs on German cars, and what the owners will pay to have them tuned. Sorry guys but the talent will go where the money is.

[fahr_side]

Not to mention tuners don't want to deal with oblivious customers who are probably even less technical and wouldn't be able to figure out how to log with RomRaider or similar.

 

I had how-to documents running to thousands of words written to walk e-tune customers through all the step from logging, to flashing, to how drive pulls, where to check for air leaks, you name it. It's hard work getting people through this without an IT department and a help line off-shored to India or the Philippines. This is how Cobb won, or a chunk of it.

[dease42]

(hijacking)

 

 

...Would love some help from someone who's a competent programmer.... the RR codebase is an absolute nightmare.

 

 

Post up the repo when you can. Long time .Net programmer (~20 yr career) - newer to Python but still competent - I'd love to help keep RR alive if I can.

[tysparks81]

between all of the talent on this board, this could get interesting very quickly.

 

Cobb is a product that fits its market and people pay to use it for that same reason. If another product was available you could map out a new market.... if it was straight forward and easy to use.

[boxkita]

and didn't require a dyno to get a tuning license

[covertrussian]

I'm in the middle of developing a RomRaider "replacement" in Python with wxPython as the GUI toolkit. Will be making the repository public in the coming month or two once I've gotten some more of the bugs out of it. Part of my ongoing work with getting dynamic RAM tuning implemented on aijmod. Would love some help from someone who's a competent programmer.... the RR codebase is an absolute nightmare.

 

 

To your point OP: there are a lot of tuners (the majority, I would say) that are not computer-savvy. Running open-source requires some comp-savviness just to get going, and ideally a background in computer engineering to get all the benefits (of which there are still some that OS has over Cobb). Not to mention tuners don't want to deal with oblivious customers who are probably even less technical and wouldn't be able to figure out how to log with RomRaider or similar.

 

I haven't been around for some time, but this might respark my interest in mucking with cars again .

 

I would love to have easier time defining newer cars, like my '12 Outback (which I'm really wanting to turbocharge ), or an Ascent that I wouldn't mind picking up in future and ditching the typical Subaru factory tunes.

[socalsleeper]

If only this guy knew what I spent on my stand alone.

 

That Haltech unit is very nice indeed... I am still a little tempted. I can't justify the $$ today given I still need an (everything) to make my car run, but let me win the lotto... WOAH-NELLY WATCH OUT BOYYYSS!!!!

[BrandonspecB]

One thing that is cool about Haltech is seeing extremely fast cars compete using them and win.

 

A Haltech powered car set the drag radial record at 3.502@211 MPH! in the 1/8th mile!

 

haltech-sets-records-at-lights-out-12

 

And then to see all the cars using them at TX2k.

 

tx2k-2021-haltech-heroes-on-top

 

It brings a tear to my eye.

[m sprank]

Cobbs product works. Simple as that. I was not a fan of internal business practices and had a beef, but the product and platform was solid. I worked with two very high end tuners who were both educated computer engineers and yes, for simplicity and less headaches they liked Cobb. They tuned everything, but custom tunes for stand alone and crazy euro set ups ran in the thousands.

[socalsleeper]

How the heck you doing M?

Hope you guys are doing good.

[m sprank]

I am good. Kickin in Harpers Ferry today. DC bout made my head explode this week. U still around Reston/Dulles? I gonna bring fam to DC soon 4 cherry blossom festival. We missed last year (covid)

 

Cant seem to tune my 4runner with an AP. Oh well, I dont need the 3whp gain anyway. Was gonna crack into the wifes RDX (2.0 turbo) but she got the better of me. LOL.

[socalsleeper]

We are in sterling, and my office is in Reston. But work from home most days, let me know if you ever get thirsty for a beer or two.

[Gabo]

I am good. Kickin in Harpers Ferry today. DC bout made my head explode this week. U still around Reston/Dulles? I gonna bring fam to DC soon 4 cherry blossom festival. We missed last year (covid)

 

Cant seem to tune my 4runner with an AP. Oh well, I dont need the 3whp gain anyway. Was gonna crack into the wifes RDX (2.0 turbo) but she got the better of me. LOL.

 

Hi Mike I ended up selling the Spec B (I know). The new owner was impressed with the build quality. Thanks for all the help throughout the years, hope all is well.

[m sprank]

Damn Gabe. Hope all is well and you did not have to sell it, but wanted to. Was always happy to assist with the car and tried to advise honestly.

 

 

There are Metro garages in Sterling, so chances are I will be in the area at some point. I have found Flying Dog to be a good local brewery available at some watering holes. I am usually game for enjoying a cold beverage.

[Gabo]

Damn Gabe. Hope all is well and you did not have to sell it, but wanted to. Was always happy to assist with the car and tried to advise honestly.

 

CA can now determine if your ecu has been remapped and when so it is an automatic State Ref. You are very familiar with my car, as you know it would never run on OEM mapping. I decided it was time to move on. In other words CA broke my car enthusiast spirit at least for now.

 

If and when I leave CA perhaps I'll go down the rabbit hole once more. For now I'll stick to mods that are CA friendly.

[m sprank]

CA can now determine if your ecu has been remapped and when so it is an automatic State Ref. You are very familiar with my car, as you know it would never run on OEM mapping. I decided it was time to move on. In other words CA broke my car enthusiast spirit at least for now.

 

If and when I leave CA perhaps I'll go down the rabbit hole once more. For now I'll stick to mods that are CA friendly.

 

 

I feel your pain. I know too well the feeling of being raped by the State of California. There are no smog laws or inspections here in WV. Yet, I am driving a bone stock 4Runner. My wifes car is also bone stock. 1st time in my life my cars are stock. I am either getting too old, or I have been beaten down too far. Most days, I feel it is the latter.

[Max Capacity]

Another Cobb AP fan here. I have two of them.

 

Back in the race cars day's, I rented a Dyno for the day and flew in a Tuner from the mid-west. So I understand what a Tuner does. That Tuner was on line when needed when we were at the track.

 

Back in 2008 I met Tuning Alliance at his house. He did his magic with just a stage 1 custom tune and a wire splice in place of the boost pill. Couple years later I went to a 3" Dp and another street tune. Year later went to the vf52 and dyno tune, on stock fueling.

 

You need to understand, most people don't have the knowledge that the Tuner does on how to program these cars. When someone wants to go Opensource because it was cheaper for them. But the Tuner's found out they had to spent a large amount of time teaching the client how to use the software. Customers got upset when the Tuner tried to charge them for that time.

 

IMO that is why Tuners don't like opensource. Cobb AP is plug and play.