Power potential of darton sleeved OEM closed deck 1994 legacyss ej22

[Senseless1]

Anybody know what kind of rods and pistons I need to push 800-1000 who on a compound turbo setup?

I'd like to fog some nitrous in last stage intercooler exit for spool and us the billet 18g as my small turbo.

I'd like to run 30-40psi.

 

Willing to go e85 or inject methanol. Two stages of intercooling with nitrous as well to keep temps and spool in check

 

Id love to run pistons I can daily drive, but will hold 800-1000. Does anyone make pistons and rods that'll hold?

 

No oil squirters btw.

Keep in mind with the darton sleeves I can go out to 102mm bore up from the regular 97mm and I can add stroke with an sti crank, more with custom rods and pistons and more with offset grinding the cam, but if like to spend money on nitrous and turbo sizing rather than unnecessary machine shop work.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Senseless1

[Senseless1]

I currently have an open deck ej22 with ported ej25d heads and ej20k valves and valvetrain spinning up a billet 18g turbo. I'd like more compression than this setup.

[Chocoholic005]

This sounds like a question you should be asking professionals about. Kinda goes beyond forum level advise. Probably safe to say no-one on this forum has made 800-1000 hp in their vehicle.

[Max Capacity]

We had rods made by this company in the 1.6L honda, they held 735HP.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=pauter+rods+subaru&oq=Pauter+rods&aqs=chrome.5.0l8.9632j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Wesco is who made the pistons, there was another piston company in CA we used for a while, but I can't remember them right now.

[Senseless1]

Yeah I think for what I want to do it might be best to just get all the specs and math out what I want 1.7 rod to stroke ratio, sti crank 100 or 102mm pistons and whatever rod length that ends up being with my desired compression height. I want 10:1 CR, probably need valve reliefs and heads machined for cams.

Should get me close to 2.4l

I'd sure like to see this with some built ej20x/y heads and a compound turbo setup. I'm assuming this could be built to handle high pressure (40psi+ compound turbo setup) with some headstuds and o ringed/sleeved/closed deck block

I might need to keep the pistons a little smaller and run higher boost, but I have a design that uses 2 turbos and nitrous or another design that uses 3 turbos with a tdo4 or smaller first stage turbine to spool everything down low that, using wastegates, would phase itself out as the second stage turbine reaches full boost. All wastegates would recirc into the subsequent stage "up pipe" or turbine inlet.

 

This still might need a little nitrous. I want to run an 18g with a top mount intercooler that spins up a 800-1000 hp turbo in the final stages. Each turbo would run 20-25 psi for a total of 40-50 psi.

Gonna need lots of Dyno time, but it would be pretty cool to see 500+ hp closer to 3k rpms than 5k rpms. I'd rather not build a top end Dyno queen. Oil cooler ball bearing big turbo would do just fine. With a big old front mount and worst case a 3" interspooler nitrous fogger on the final stage intercooler outlet.

Idk how happy my sensors would be, but fogging that late would have the greatest temperature drop, and would help to reduce the effort of the larger turbo as the pressure post big turbo compressor would drop proportionally to the temperatures.

 

I'd like to end up with what feels like a much larger engine in the mid-range and laugh at sti Dyno curves.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Senseless1

[Max Capacity]

Will a 18g get you there ?

 

I would think something a little bigger would be better.

 

I seem to recall the GT35R on the 1.6L civic when it was still a street car was wild when it would spin the tires in the top end of a gear, interesting in 4th.

[Senseless1]

Will a 18g get you there ?

 

I would think something a little bigger would be better.

 

I seem to recall the GT35R on the 1.6L civic when it was still a street car was wild when it would spin the tires in the top end of a gear, interesting in 4th.

 

Well the 18g would be the small turbo. I have it on my 8.something low compression dohc hybrid. The upgraded vf39 turbo has a billet 18g comp wheel with extended tip rebalanced. Larger compressor housing as well. Ported turbine housing as well.

It doesn't want spool fast enough for my taste, so I was thinking more displacement with stroker crank, +3mm bore pistons and set the deck height head gasket combo for 10:1.

More displacement and more air should get me something, but nitrous outlet makes a nitrous fogger that fogs intercooler piping. I'm sure a 50 shot would help especially with the pressure drop from such a constrictive induction system. I'd like two intercoolers to avoid methanol injection.

Worst case I'll put a small tdo4 or something in and make it a 3 stage system that phases out the tdo4 just before the 18g hits peak boost.

 

I was thinking a ball bearing Precision PT7275 Gen2 CEA Billet Turbo for the big turbo.

I'm okay with this thing spooling slowly and predictably. I don't want it to light off and be undriveable or have to integrate some form of dynamic boost control or torque management system. It's going to be complicated enough getting it running optimally.

 

I want this thing to feel like it has a big engine and not have to rev the nuts off of it

Edited March 23, 2020 by Senseless1

[boxkita]

1000hp daily driver? I hope you have a big budget, cause that kind of money and tuning will be high 5 figures or more. Add in the "must feel like a big engine down low" requirement and you have a super custom build.

 

Supercharger will do the low end grunt, as turbos are at the opposite end of the rpm band for high hp.

 

Just adding nos to get the extra 400-500hp doesn't work.

 

The mechanicals will most likely require custom parts. Check rcm in uk. They have started selling the parts they use on the gobstopper cars. Big $$

[Senseless1]

1000hp daily driver? I hope you have a big budget, cause that kind of money and tuning will be high 5 figures or more. Add in the "must feel like a big engine down low" requirement and you have a super custom build.

 

Supercharger will do the low end grunt, as turbos are at the opposite end of the rpm band for high hp.

 

Just adding nos to get the extra 400-500hp doesn't work.

 

The mechanicals will most likely require custom parts. Check rcm in uk. They have started selling the parts they use on the gobstopper cars. Big $$

 

I'm sure it would be expensive to pay a shop for all of that.

I have all the time in the world. Zero rust and resprayed undercoating in high rust areas.

I don't let shops work on my car unless it's something I can't do like tires, alignment, and machine shop costs.

 

I'm sure the short block is going to be expensive as hell and so is the big turbo.

I'll be building the car in stages and participating in events. I would like to do all the Fab work and tuning up until the compound turbo comes in. I'm not building this overnight. I've had the car for about 4 years 2 engines, 2 transmissions. It has baseline Dyno numbers and has been on track at summit point, wv already.

 

It'll eventually need a full sti drivetrain swap too. The next step for this car is going to be dual avcs ej20x/y on a standalone ECU and 18gxt turbo. I could easily Max that turbo out and race/show/learn the car on track. I can do all assembly on these except no machining.

I think I can do it for under 10k if I invest a lot of time. There are ways.

[Senseless1]

I guess it's worth noting that I was a small business owner for the last 12 years who enjoyed cars so much. I took a hefty pay cut to become an auto tech. Technically my formal training is mostly in aviation, but I ran out of money for school. I will always have a long term project. I was going to slap in a junkyard engine a leave it, but I think with widebody and better engine this could be a fun track weekend warrior.

Some thoughts about builds that need to happen:

Turbo motorcycle

Diesel electric car

Compound turbo (essentially an awkward aircraft turbine with several small turbines instead of one big turbine and multiple small stages of compression.)

Turbo American V8 something maybe a c4 Vette?

[boxkita]

you sound like pdxammo

 

have you looked at the willall billet block? iag sells them in the USA. As close to factory race motor as you can get.

 

Ezra1234 was/is building a 1000hp sedan. He's been working with snail performance on custom turbo to get the power. You might contact him with your questions as he's been through multiple iterations.

[Senseless1]

you sound like pdxammo

 

have you looked at the willall billet block? iag sells them in the USA. As close to factory race motor as you can get.

 

Ezra1234 was/is building a 1000hp sedan. He's been working with snail performance on custom turbo to get the power. You might contact him with your questions as he's been through multiple iterations.

 

Oh man that's way out of my price range.

I'm sure I'll be fine with an sti crank, custom rods and pistons with iron darton sleeves and closed deck block, o ringed and the biggest head studs I can get.

I'll probably need to machine the heads for cams and bigger valves. I would like an aggressive cam profile for high boost but focus on midrange. I think oversizing the big turbo in the compound setup will make the power curve more linear.

With custom rods and pistons with an sti crank in a 2.2l bored over because darton sleeves I could easily be at 2.4l of displacement and have thicker liners than an sti block and have a thicker closed deck liner than an IAG block. As long as it isn't spun to high rpm or blowing head gaskets it'll make power with a 70-72mm turbo on it with an 18gxt and nitrous spooling up down low.

I don't think a willall block is necessary. Amazing piece though.

 

I'd like to see some flow numbers from the dual avcs built ej20x heads with port and polish +1valves etc.

Again with enough turbo they'll make power.

I just need to math out the rods and pistons and compressor maps to see if the turbos I want to use will even work from a theoretical compound turbo perspective.

I'm reading you lose a little top end power from the big turbo in a compound setup, so I wanted to overshoot on a 72mm turbo.

 

I think I'll just go straight to CP and tell them what I want. They should know what type of piston material will hold up to my needs and hopefully offer guidance on better wrist pins. I also hope they have advice on ring gap numbers for something that might see 40-50psi, nitrous, e85, methanol, would be fun to mess with 10%nitropropyl methanol spray lol maybe start with a few junkyard engines first though.

I'm assuming with modern heads and an 11mm sti oil pump I can get away with .020 bearing clearances and thicker oil + oil cooler. I guess I'll be looking for a dry sump sponsor too lol

[Senseless1]

you sound like pdxammo

 

have you looked at the willall billet block? iag sells them in the USA. As close to factory race motor as you can get.

 

Ezra1234 was/is building a 1000hp sedan. He's been working with snail performance on custom turbo to get the power. You might contact him with your questions as he's been through multiple iterations.

 

Also not to shit talk any Subaru shops, but IAG quoted me two weeks to cut a performance valve job, resurface and clean my heads.

Inexplicably they took 4 months to finish my stuff.

 

I've also had some experiences with some other prominent Subaru shops that left me disappointed.

 

I'll be taking my parts to a machine shop with specific instructions and doing final assembly and tuning if I can help it. At least up until I go compound turbo.

[boxkita]

Unless the machine shop has experience with subaru, they are going to pull the exhaust valve clearance from their book and give you .25mm instead of .35mm. Ask me how I know...

 

If you fb, look up Mary Fields. She and her husband, Keith, run a shop in Texas with lots of experience in high hp builds. I believe they were the first under 10secs with an LGT.

 

2618 is typical for forged pistons. Someone makes billet pistons but that crazy money. Adding the right coating to piston makes up for alot. Wrist pin tech is about the same across the board. Its a steel piece in a aluminum hole. Once you get the clearance right, everything else is ok.

 

The average Subaru shop doesn't build race engines. There's no money in it. Fixing outbacks? Yeah, that's a gold mine. For $4000, you can buy the equipment to do your valves. Getting the heads decked is within the realm of any machine shop as long as they go slow to avoid ripples.

 

If you want a beefy turbo setup contact jmp##### on this forum. I forget his random number but the pm tool will sort it out. He modifies turbo and has been looking for someone who wants a big turbo kit.

 

High rpm and high hp are common with subaru. Low rpm and low hp are common with subaru. All other combo are very expensive.

 

10k budget for 1000hp dd with multiple turbos seems flawed. Then again John DeLorean made it work.

[Senseless1]

Unless the machine shop has experience with subaru, they are going to pull the exhaust valve clearance from their book and give you .25mm instead of .35mm. Ask me how I know...

 

If you fb, look up Mary Fields. She and her husband, Keith, run a shop in Texas with lots of experience in high hp builds. I believe they were the first under 10secs with an LGT.

 

2618 is typical for forged pistons. Someone makes billet pistons but that crazy money. Adding the right coating to piston makes up for alot. Wrist pin tech is about the same across the board. Its a steel piece in a aluminum hole. Once you get the clearance right, everything else is ok.

 

The average Subaru shop doesn't build race engines. There's no money in it. Fixing outbacks? Yeah, that's a gold mine. For $4000, you can buy the equipment to do your valves. Getting the heads decked is within the realm of any machine shop as long as they go slow to avoid ripples.

 

If you want a beefy turbo setup contact jmp##### on this forum. I forget his random number but the pm tool will sort it out. He modifies turbo and has been looking for someone who wants a big turbo kit.

 

High rpm and high hp are common with subaru. Low rpm and low hp are common with subaru. All other combo are very expensive.

 

10k budget for 1000hp dd with multiple turbos seems flawed. Then again John DeLorean made it work.

 

That's a great point! Luckily I'm right down the street from element tuning, andrewtech, and turboxs among other shops specializing in porsche, Gtrs, and EVO's as well as an airport.

In this industrial park is a machine shop all the Subaru places use.

Idk if they experience with darton sleeves, but they should have all the tooling for a Subaru.

I'll look into the spec you gave. I don't have any social media at this point, but I remember Mary's LGT from prior years in the loop.

I'll reach out.

 

It's definitely got some schemes worked in like buying a wrecked sti and selling off what I don't use,

I'll be doing all the porting and buying all my turbos used and rebuilding them and sending them out to be rebalanced per usual. I can do my own engine assembly, and tuning up and until the compound turbo setup.

If I can build something competitive I'll seek out sponsorships or partnerships to help reduce costs.

10k is really ambitious, but the car is well on its way. I have already rolled the fenders and have about 1"- 1/14" poke with custom Widebody going on this year. It's a superior model of second gen legacy gt wagon. I already have the ej22t short block and a turbo to get me at 350. I mean really for even 15k the end result would be well worth the effort.

 

I'm sure if I can get it running well and dialed in on track the rest will follow if it's meant to be.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Senseless1

[boxkita]

what's with the darton sleeve? plus closed deck? did you drop a sleeve already? The closed deck, provided a quality insert, does more to stabilize the block at high rpm than the sleeve.

[Senseless1]

what's with the darton sleeve? plus closed deck? did you drop a sleeve already? The closed deck, provided a quality insert, does more to stabilize the block at high rpm than the sleeve.

 

It's a factory closed deck block with trashed cylinders I picked up for cheap.