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phuzaxeman

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I know that for many these will sound like blasphemy but as long as Subaru builds all wheel drive vehicles ONLY they will remain a company for few geeks and enthusiasts. Remember that that all mass-market car companies produce mostly 2wheel drive cars. By it's nature US market does not have significant demand for all wheel drives.

Flame away. I am out.

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Flame away. I am out.

 

Coward!:icon_lol:

 

I think you're right though. I never see many Subarus in So California. About a million acuras though! When we were looking at MBs there the dealer was giving bigger discounts on their 4matics. The general public just haven't seen the necessity of AWD yet. But they're getting there.

tom :)

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I'm spoiled. I don't even think about buying anything but AWD vehicles. But that's Maine fer ya. I loved the 325i when I lived in San Diego.

 

So I speculate global warming is bad for Subaru, but a new Ice Age would help 'em. Maybe if they made all hybrid, high MPG, AWD vehicles they'd be more popular.

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Coward!

 

I think you're right though. I never see many Subarus in So California. About a million acuras though! When we were looking at MBs there the dealer was giving bigger discounts on their 4matics. The general public just haven't seen the necessity of AWD yet. But they're getting there.

 

No they are not :( . General public would rather have better gas mileage, better reliability, lower cost and better resale value (hence better lease) of two wheel drive cars and this is not going to change EVER. That's why Accord will ALWAYS outsell Legacy by a HUGE margin.

By limiting it's self to all wheel drive Subaru effectively removes it's self from competing with larger more flexible car manufacturers.

Sorry, didn't mean to burst your bubble :(

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No they are not :( . General public would rather have better gas mileage, better reliability, lower cost and better resale value (hence better lease) of two wheel drive cars and this is not going to change EVER. That's why Accord will ALWAYS outsell Legacy by a HUGE margin.

By limiting it's self to all wheel drive Subaru effectively removes it's self from competing with larger more flexible car manufacturers.

Sorry, didn't mean to burst your bubble :(

 

I agree with you for the most part. But over the past few years we are seeing other manufacturers offer AWD cars that didn't in the past. MB, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac, VW (Phaeton, Passat), Volvo, Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe, and now the Ford 500 (car of the masses, no?) AWD is trickling down to everyday cars. Will they ever outnumber 2WD cars? Probably not. But clearly there is more demand for AWD now than there was 10 years ago.

 

Of course Subaru will never compete with the likes of Honda or Toyota, regardless of their drivetrain. Subaru is a much smaller manufacturer.

 

But who knows, maybe you'll see an AWD Accord or Camry someday? :icon_bigg

tom :)

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I know that for many these will sound like blasphemy but as long as Subaru builds all wheel drive vehicles ONLY they will remain a company for few geeks and enthusiasts. Remember that that all mass-market car companies produce mostly 2wheel drive cars. By it's nature US market does not have significant demand for all wheel drives.

Flame away. I am out.

 

Yah. Sure.

 

That is why how many cars are coming out with AWD? It used to be Subaru, Audi and AMC Eagle.

 

Now... Let's see. Besides not being able to sell an SUV (even the puny car based ones) without AWD...

 

Volvo has it optional on pretty much their entire line. Porsche 911s have come with AWD models for a while now.

 

Acura RL. Honda is probably going to bring SH-AWD out with future sedans, as well, as the Sport 4 concept shows.

 

Infiniti. G35x, Does M series (I think so) or future Q get it? wouldn't suprise me.

 

Cadillac STS. BMW 5 and 3 series sedans and wagons have it optional.

 

Lexus IS is putting it's toe in the water, and GS has it. Mercedes Benz has 4-Matic. VW has 4-Motion. Chrysler LX (300, Magnum) is rumored to be getting, or already has AWD.

 

Ford Five-hundred, Mercury Montego, and rumors for future versions of the Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr. Mazdaspeed 6.

 

Hell, Lamborghini is all AWD, as are the Bentleys, and the Bugatti.

 

AWD was expensive to build and agricultural in nature. Now, with newer technology, it is getting much more road worthy, easier to package, and inexpensive enough to include as an option.

 

As more and more people are exposed to the confidence and sure-footedness of AWD (even if it is from their SUVs...) they are less willing to tackle inclement weather without it, when it is no longer a big deal to have it on a car.

 

I think, actually, Subaru runs the risk of diminishing their brand value, as AWD is becoming less and less of a differentiation from the competition, and it EMPHASIZES that Subaru needs to keep and excel in other ways.

 

Personally, I think that if subaru relinquishes their All-AWD, All-the-time policy, I think they will drown in a sea of camrys and accords. They need to offer more, not less. Subaru ditching standard AWD would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

Competeing in unit sales with Honda, Toyota, GM, or Ford is a mistake. Subaru should increase their marketshare, definitely, but mark my words, they will get TOO diluted if they try to go for those sorts of sales numbers with more diluted and boring products.

 

How many MORE boring cars do you think the market will bear? I have never subscribed to the theory that boring cars like camry or accord sell more interesting cars like Supra or NSX. Quite the contrary. Niche and aspirational cars sell more pedestrian vehicles. Companies should be catering to enthusiasts, not sidelining us. If you can convince me that your car is good, you can convince anyone else.

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Nice... now only if they can get more sales! They need to inject some excitement into their marketing...

 

Can't agree more. Put simply, Subaru advertising it really bad IMO. They need to advertise thier cars and features more, and not the lease plans and whatever. I saw a legacy ad a few months ago, but it only advertised the AWD.

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Can't agree more. Put simply, Subaru advertising it really bad IMO. They need to advertise thier cars and features more, and not the lease plans and whatever. I saw a legacy ad a few months ago, but it only advertised the AWD.

 

They have run some decent magazine ads. The only reason I am even aware of the new Legacy is that they ran a 2-pager in Wired a few years ago when the 05's were coming out. I requested a brochure and admired it from my throne room for a while before tossing it out. Fast forwared to last October ... I had to work really hard to convince my wife to test drive one. She was really skeptical. But we did, and we loved it, and jumped on this forum to look for reasons not to buy. We were pleased that we didn't find any big red flags.

 

They have a lot of work to do though. My father in law still says "What's Subaru?" ... he didn't even know it was a Japanese brand, much less what kind of cars they sell. Subaru was doing a lot better in that regard when Paul Hogan was pitching Outbacks on TV.

 

Here in South Texas, Subaru has a tiny market share compared to colder climates. If Subaru has 1% of the market nationwide, here it's probably closer to 0.25% or less. What a shame. AWD is not just for snow.

 

I have to admit, though, that I'm really looking forward to debadging our car so that nobody will have a clue what it is. I see so many Passats and Accords on the road (we have both), but I only see a Legacy about once a week.

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I totally agree. Their print marketing is far better that their TV ads. But they still have a lot of work to do.

 

When I was living in California, I didn't see a lot of Subarus but I did see a lot of Volvo XC70's. Same logic but more expensive to impress the neighbors. But here in Denver, everyone has Subarus.

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Lately, I haven't seen any Legacy or Outback ads in any car magizines, aside maybe from a Tribeca once and a while. TV ads will have a bigger effect here in IL, where Subarus aren't too common, even though we have our fair share of snow. I have a feeling that they are advertising in markets that don't need anymore advertising because they are so popular.(Rockies)

 

Even better, our local Subaru dealer is in a shared space with Buick. The buick sign is a lot bigger than the subaru sign.

 

I don't recall Subaru advertising the 2005 Legacy before it came out. Chevy got that nailed w/ the new Tahoe.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have known about Subaru's ever since I began driving 16 years ago. Maybe it's because I have always lived up near the snow (Sierra Nevadas).

 

I did not realize the performance and rally heritage that Subaru had until I played the original Gran Turismo game on the Sony Playstation back in the mid 1990's. Once I saw that and started doing some research, I began asking the question, "Why don't they sell these (WRX's, B4's, etc.) in the US?"

 

I was extremely excited to see the WRX come here in 2002, and even more excited to see a turbo Legacy come for 2005. It is nice to have a safe car that feeds my need for speed, and can haul the family around.

 

Just my 2 cents....

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Absolutely. My 02 WRX with Cobb Stage II was the best car I ever owned before my new 05 MT LGT Wagon (only 800 miles, but will go AP stage I on Wednesday, Ion springs to follow, etc.) This includes Miata, BMW 325i. Wagon is so amazing- lux (Ltd) mostly for wife's benefit, room for kids, ski stuff, dependable, reliable, relatively inexpensive, safe, handles all kinds of weather with grace, and moves like crazy, even stock.
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I took it to girls' night out last night. My friend asked about our new car (hadn't seen it). I told her what it was. She gave the tell-tale puzzled look and asked if that is that wagon thing. I said we bought the sedan. (She was thinking Outback ala Paul Hogan.)

 

When she walked me to my car, she was impressed. She said she's putting it on her list and then had to ask me what it was again.

 

Dear Subaru...it shouldn't take this much explanation! She should just know from the name that it is an incredibly fun and good looking car.

 

****

As Bicster said, he had to convince me to test drive.

 

After test driving, I was hooked. I didn't really care to look at the Infiniti, the Lexus, BMW...I wanted one of these cars. Not too bling, nice styling, and fun to drive.

 

Wish they'd listen to us. We're their best advertisers.

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why all the hate on subaru marketing? being small doesn't mean they're not successful -- SOA has been increasing its sales figures for the last several years

 

ford sold 2.9 million vehicles in the U.S. last year, and finished billions in debt

 

besides, if what you WANT is to drive a car that's a dime-a-dozen and is in every neighbor's driveway, go buy an accord/tl/g35 and blend in with the rest of the herd

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why all the hate on subaru marketing? being small doesn't mean they're not successful -- SOA has been increasing its sales figures for the last several years

Shortly after I got my LGT, I took it to the independent Audi specialist service/performance shop where I used to take my A4 for service and performance mods. The guys there are mechanics and tuners who are active members of the Audi Club, and are really into AWD sport sedans.

 

They had never even heard of the LGT, and this was after the car had been out for a year. They knew about the WRX, but they had no idea Subaru made a more upscale turbo sport sedan. They said "250 hp? No kidding? Wow, this is nice. The WRX looks kinda cheap, but this is really nice!"

 

I really think a lot of Audi Club members would be all over the LGT if they knew it existed. Let's see: lighter, more powerful, better balanced, less expensive, more reliable, at least as mod-friendly if not more so...hmmm.....

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The guys there are mechanics and tuners who are active members of the Audi Club, and are really into AWD sport sedans. They had never even heard of the LGT, and this was after the car had been out for a year.

being that they are mechanics and tuners, do they never peruse a car magazine? that's where i first stumbled upon it, before it was even offered for sale here....and i'm not a tuner nor really into AWD sports sedans. one of the major car magazine's even has been running a promotional drawing for a souped up LGT for nearly a year now.

 

the point is, if you know how to google and can read english and are into awd sport sedans, you should already know about this car. SOA shouldn't have to cram it down your throat. how many audi commercials do you expect to see during the super bowl?

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the point is, if you know how to google and can read english and are into awd sport sedans, you should already know about this car. SOA shouldn't have to cram it down your throat.
That's brilliant logic. "It's not Subaru's fault people don't know about the car, it's the public's fault for not reading the right magazines and doing the right Google searches. If Subaru isn't selling as many cars as they could, it's not a marketing problem, it's just that the public just isn't doing their homework.":rolleyes:

how many audi commercials do you expect to see during the super bowl?
Maybe not the Super Bowl, but there are plenty of effective Audi ads in mainstream media. Such an ad was what originally got me to look at the A4, which I ended up buying.

 

I myself am an AWD sport sedan enthusiast, and when I started seriously thinking about replacing the A4 in mid-2004, I figured my options were another Audi, an AWD Passat, a BMW 3**xi, or a Jaguar X-Type. I wasn't interested in the WRX, although I had been intrigued when it first came out, and I knew only of the previous N/A Legacy GT's, which were decent cars but didn't really inspire me. After a disappointing test-drive in a Passat W8 6MT, I went to the Subaru.com website on a whim, and looked around enough to figure out that there was now a 250hp turbo Legacy, that weighed only 3,300 lbs. (compared with 3,800+ for the Passat W8, and 3,600+ for a V6 A4). Suddenly, the LGT moved to the top of my short list.

 

The trouble is, from a marketing standpoint, I had to find the LGT, whereas the A4 found me.

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The trouble is, from a marketing standpoint, I had to find the LGT, whereas the A4 found me.

 

Are Subarus not popular in Minnesota? Here in the NW it's hard not to see one. They are quite popular. When I lived in the NE same thing- quite popular. It would seem Subaru just needs to improve their marketing in certain regions, rather than nationwide.

 

Sorry, I guess this is OT.

tom :)

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If Subaru isn't selling as many cars as they could, it's not a marketing problem, it's just that the public just isn't doing their homework.

.....but there are plenty of effective Audi ads in mainstream media. Such an ad was what originally got me to look at the A4, which I ended up buying.

then explain why audi sold approx. 40,000 A4's in the U.S. this past year, but SOA sold only about 88,000 legacy/outbacks.

 

That's brilliant logic.
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i am fine with their sales where they are, i dont want them going into the expenisve market like everyone else, i'm not gonna pay 40,000 for this car, i will look elsewhere when they start charging that much, plus i LOVE going everywhere and virtually NEVER seeing a duplicate of my car. i'd hate to own a camry and pull up to a stop light and see the same car sitting next to me and 3 cars back as well, just isnt cool. noone knows what i drive for the most part and thats how i like it. I just want them to sell enough to keep selling them so when i need a new car they are still around.
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