CA Smog Woes and LGT vs Spec B ECUs?

[lazybummm]

Oh wow, I've missed a lot of discussion in this thread, lol!

 

I've got my state ref appt next Friday, I'll post an update. The VIN on the ECU matches the car, so that's good, probably original is my guess.

 

Hopefully it won't be anything.

 

I was planning to upgrade the turbo, injectors, and pump and then tune, now with the smog and I hear it will only get stricter, I don't even feel like bothering anymore.

 

If none of this works, I'm going to transfer the car into my brother in law's name, he's active duty military and can register it anywhere (somewhere without smog)

[m sprank]

Air pump codes disabled should causes the evap monitor not to set. But... until recently Cali gave a pass on that monitor. I have a BUNCH of emails from past customers about not being able to pass smog this year with their air pump block off plates and codes deleted.

 

 

 

Rear O2 disables (PO420) should cause O2 readiness monitor not to set. Dont know about every state, but its a no-no in Cali.

 

 

 

Deleting EGT sensor from up pipe and tune does not cause anything negative for smog that I recall. Its so easy to use a resistor too and leave the tune alone.

 

 

Pre-04 Romraider can force all readiness monitors to set. It makes techs FREAK out when codes are deleted and monitors are forced. I sent a car in for a smog with all the misfire codes deleted and the monitors forced. Car was misfiring on all 4 with around 70psi of compression. No CEL. All monitors set. Tech caught on to something after resetting the ECM many times and seeing the monitors always set. BUt could not technically fail the car. We had a good laugh when I explained what I did just to test the system (after work and a cold refreshment).

[Guest]

Pre-04 Romraider can force all readiness monitors to set. It makes techs FREAK out when codes are deleted and monitors are forced. I sent a car in for a smog with all the misfire codes deleted and the monitors forced. Car was misfiring on all 4 with around 70psi of compression. No CEL. All monitors set. Tech caught on to something after resetting the ECM many times and seeing the monitors always set. BUt could not technically fail the car. We had a good laugh when I explained what I did just to test the system (after work and a cold refreshment).

 

That actually is a basis for fail in MA. They refer you to a state run inspection place, where they can comb through your car.

[lazybummm]

Quick Update. Went to the state ref today, the guy didn't even pop the hood, he connected obd scanner, and then climbed under the passenger side, I assume to make sure there was a stock downpipe, and then 5 minutes later, state ref requirement lifted, now back to smog place after a few business days while the system updates.

[lazybummm]

NM, got a call this morning from State Ref saying that even though it initially looked like it passed, they did a data analysis and said that the programming is nothing like the one for that year and make...WTF?

 

Does anyone have a stock 08 Spec B map they would be willing to share, I will try to install it through romraider to see if that makes a difference. I feel like maybe a LGT 5 speed was written on and the checksum is not checking out now.

[solidxsnake]

Stock ROM can be found here: https://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7591 (A2TB001L, ECU ID is 5212785107).

 

It shouldn't be possible to flash a ROM from a different ECU on to yours, unless you actually know what you're doing (i.e. I think it's highly unlikely you'd have a 5spd or AT ROM on your spec.B).

[Gabo]

NM, got a call this morning from State Ref saying that even though it initially looked like it passed, they did a data analysis and said that the programming is nothing like the one for that year and make...WTF?

 

Does anyone have a stock 08 Spec B map they would be willing to share, I will try to install it through romraider to see if that makes a difference. I feel like maybe a LGT 5 speed was written on and the checksum is not checking out now.

 

Now this is scary....

[Gabo]

It could be an issue with the uninstall and the ECM handshake. It could be the map provided by Cobb is different enough that a check sum does not match. The ECM VIN and DMV VIN need to match, it could have a swapped ECM. It could be a lot of things.

 

Mike I think you might have hit the nail right on the head. This is what Cobb had to say about this back in 2011.

 

"There's over 250,000 lines of code in a modern Subaru ECU, so it is difficult to say anything definitively. We suspect that there may be a flash counter of sorts in most 08+ Subarus as we've found ROMs submitted from different cars of the same model/year/etc. (and same ROM version) where a few bytes are different (in the past, there would not be any difference). We haven't spent any time investigated this as even if it is a flash counter, it would be irrelevant as it is stored in the ROM and the AccessPORT v2 backs up the original ROM when you marry and flashes that back on when you unmarry. I also have not heard about any dealer function relating to a flash counter. Regardless, it is not an issue with our product.

 

Again, it is difficult to say anything with certainty regarding a current/future flash counter especially when you are dealing with the later CAN vehicles. You would literally have to purchase every new Subaru every year and tear it apart spending hundred of hours reverse engineering every module in the car. Subaru could be very sneaky in implementing this type of functionality if they wanted to."

 

Obviously this info is 8 years old, but I think it correlates with what the smog technician was trying to explain to me. The newer the ECU the more information can be accessed.

[lazybummm]

Mike I think you might have hit the nail right on the head. This is what Cobb had to say about this back in 2011.

 

"There's over 250,000 lines of code in a modern Subaru ECU, so it is difficult to say anything definitively. We suspect that there may be a flash counter of sorts in most 08+ Subarus as we've found ROMs submitted from different cars of the same model/year/etc. (and same ROM version) where a few bytes are different (in the past, there would not be any difference). We haven't spent any time investigated this as even if it is a flash counter, it would be irrelevant as it is stored in the ROM and the AccessPORT v2 backs up the original ROM when you marry and flashes that back on when you unmarry. I also have not heard about any dealer function relating to a flash counter. Regardless, it is not an issue with our product.

 

Again, it is difficult to say anything with certainty regarding a current/future flash counter especially when you are dealing with the later CAN vehicles. You would literally have to purchase every new Subaru every year and tear it apart spending hundred of hours reverse engineering every module in the car. Subaru could be very sneaky in implementing this type of functionality if they wanted to."

 

Obviously this info is 8 years old, but I think it correlates with what the smog technician was trying to explain to me. The newer the ECU the more information can be accessed.

 

So far what I know

 

The VIN on ECU matches the car. Based on the history and limited mods, I highly doubt that the ECU was ever swapped, so my best guess is that the ECU hardware is original. Otherwise it seems that it would be significant pain to get the ECU to have matching VIN. Car was previously not in an area that required smog, so if ECU was swapped I doubt they would have gone through trouble of sending it out to get Vin burned on.

 

I bought a Cobb AP V2 (too cheap to buy V3). When I connected (after updating firmware on AP), it detected the car as LGT 08-09 but it also detected as already having a Cobb Tune on it. So whatever Cobb tune was on there was over written by this V2 AP I got, but again LGT not spec.b specifically.

 

I bought a used AP V3 thinking that maybe it's because the old V2 (even though firmware updated) just didn't have Spec.B, but the AP V3 still recognizes it as LGT/OBXT 08-09 and not Spec.B

 

I spoke with Cobb several times about this. They confirmed that Spec.B is different and should be recognized as Spec.B on AP, they recognized the type of car by looking at the ROM ID, not checksum, so my guess is that CA DMV has a database of ROM IDs, and mine is reflecting a LGT ROM ID and not a Spec.B Rom ID.

 

The one guess the Cobb guy said is that maybe earlier in life the car was tuned with OpenECU and whoever tuned actually tuned it with a LGT Base map thus the ROM got changed to LGT (thus wrong ROM ID), so now it's just recognized as LGT.

 

I have 3 options for next steps:

 

1)send ECU to Cobb to have OEM Spec.B ecu installed, which they said they could, but that means I have to send my ECU and AP in, troublesome, although not entirely sure that is the problem for smog.

 

2) to the dealership to reset, although I'm a bit concerned about the dealership, they might mess more up, haha, mostly because 2 out of 3 dealerships I called had no clue what I was talking about. I would uninstall the AP and take it in

 

3)I am looking for someone with Tactrix Openport 2.0 cable to put the factory Spec.B rom on so the ROM ID will be back to Spec.B and hopefully AP will recognize it.

 

Thank you again for everyone on responding.

Edited May 2, 2019 by lazybummm

[solidxsnake]

3)I am looking for someone with Tactrix Openport 2.0 cable to put the factory Spec.B rom on so the ROM ID will be back to Spec.B and hopefully AP will recognize it.

 

This is by far the easiest option. It's a literal 2-minute task. Likely the most convenient, too. You could probably buy an OP2.0, use it for this, then sell it with little to no loss in cash.

[Infosecdad]

There is one that just popped up for sale in the classifieds...

[m sprank]

NM, got a call this morning from State Ref saying that even though it initially looked like it passed, they did a data analysis and said that the programming is nothing like the one for that year and make...WTF?

 

Does anyone have a stock 08 Spec B map they would be willing to share, I will try to install it through romraider to see if that makes a difference. I feel like maybe a LGT 5 speed was written on and the checksum is not checking out now.

 

RomRaider. You will need a Tactrix cable as well.

 

Lo and behold, they are already checking against known data points. TOLD YOU.

 

My advice is get the hell out of Cali as fast as possible. You might as well live in RUSSIA. I am getting out now. In WV today looking at houses today.

[m sprank]

Mike I think you might have hit the nail right on the head. This is what Cobb had to say about this back in 2011.

 

"There's over 250,000 lines of code in a modern Subaru ECU, so it is difficult to say anything definitively. We suspect that there may be a flash counter of sorts in most 08+ Subarus as we've found ROMs submitted from different cars of the same model/year/etc. (and same ROM version) where a few bytes are different (in the past, there would not be any difference). We haven't spent any time investigated this as even if it is a flash counter, it would be irrelevant as it is stored in the ROM and the AccessPORT v2 backs up the original ROM when you marry and flashes that back on when you unmarry. I also have not heard about any dealer function relating to a flash counter. Regardless, it is not an issue with our product.

 

Again, it is difficult to say anything with certainty regarding a current/future flash counter especially when you are dealing with the later CAN vehicles. You would literally have to purchase every new Subaru every year and tear it apart spending hundred of hours reverse engineering every module in the car. Subaru could be very sneaky in implementing this type of functionality if they wanted to."

 

Obviously this info is 8 years old, but I think it correlates with what the smog technician was trying to explain to me. The newer the ECU the more information can be accessed.

 

Gabe, I have known about the internal counter for years. This is how Subaru voids warranties. Flash counter is not the same as when it left the factory or if/when any programming update was made at the dealership and you are hosed. If the counter is not as expected your warranty is void. They do not know what you did, but they know you did something and it was unauthorized. Manufactures have been trying to prove that tunes are intellectual property in court for some time now.

 

It also appears that Cobbs "stock ROM" that was used is not in fact "stock". Oh, you mean Cobb is not perfect? FAR from it. Cobb has not been "Cobb" for years. I know FAR more than most as a long time dealer.

[lazybummm]

The saga continues. I went to Church Automotive today and they flashed the factory 08 Spec. B Rom on, just 2 minutes. Now the Accessport recognizes it as a Spec B, so that's very positive sign. I have a smog appointment tomorrow with state ref, yeah might not be a good idea, the only I/M not ready right now is secondary air and evap (evap can be not ready in CA). I will get a few cold starts in before tomorrow and hopefully it'll be ready for a state ref smog tomorrow.

[kzr750r1]

No, monitors have to be in ready state...Go drive it a bit.

[lazybummm]

Haha, this is like the never ending saga. Went to State Ref at LA Trade Tech, they are super nice there. Did a pre-test, and data checked out!! Finally. Looks like the tech did a full visual and was ready to do the full smog check, and BAR server went down, so they are instead having me go to a normal smog check, I thought I was gonna save 30 or 40 bucks, but I guess not.

 

BTW, for anyone that care, my secondary air injection went to ready on 2nd cold start. I was planning for 4 cold starts to make sure, but it went ready after 2nd cold start, the other ones pretty much went ready almost right away, and Evap does not need to be ready in CA

 

All in all, I think they just look at ROM ID.

Edited May 9, 2019 by lazybummm

[Gabo]

Haha, this is like the never ending saga. Went to State Ref at LA Trade Tech, they are super nice there. Did a pre-test, and data checked out!! Finally. Looks like the tech did a full visual and was ready to do the full smog check, and BAR server went down, so they are instead having me go to a normal smog check, I thought I was gonna save 30 or 40 bucks, but I guess not.

 

BTW, for anyone that care, my secondary air injection went to ready on 2nd cold start. I was planning for 4 cold starts to make sure, but it went ready after 2nd cold start, the other ones pretty much went ready almost right away, and Evap does not need to be ready in CA

 

All in all, I think they just look at ROM ID.

 

Super glad everything worked out, I'm sure you were stressing.

[m sprank]

Best way to reset all monitors. Start car cold and let idle for 30-60 seconds. Drive normally (no flogging it) to near by gas station (less than 1 mile). Fill tank. Drive normally to interstate highway. Drive on interstate highway obeying all traffic laws and speeds for approximately 35 miles. Exit interstate highway and proceed to drive approx 3 miles. Park it for the night. Return drive in morning repeating steps without filling tank. All monitors should be reset shortly prior to return destination.

 

 

 

Evap reset usually requires the tank to be filled.

[hadvw]

Car Gauge Pro + elm27 (or whatever it's called - bluetooth dongle that cost like $20-30 on ebay) includes OBD2 readiness monitors that show you the state of every monitor.

[lazybummm]

thanks again, everyone for your input and ideas. I finally passed smog today, can get my real CA plates now.

[Rhitter]

Has anyone being able to confirm if they see turned off "codes". I know they didn't last year.

[m sprank]

Afaik, not yet. However, many "turned off codes" cause a readiness monitor not to set. Thus, stopping the test from being performed.