700watts Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 In Minnesota. See my post above yours. I'm encouraged that they found something. I just hope they can track down the cause. They found the symptom now let's hope they find the problem. Document everything and prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Good luck man ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 A 3 amp draw should be easy to narrow down. I dont think it's a reason to lemon law the car but I understand your frustration. If they can't find anything (which I doubt will be the case) we can help you do a draw test as long as you have a multimeter with a milliamp setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 just because we weren't right in this case doesn't mean our info was worthless. its absolutely true that keeping a fob near or inside a parked car will drain the battery. The same thing is well covered on the Chevrolet SS forums (a previous car of mine so I was active on there for a while), FYI. I'm glad to hear the dealership stepped up and was willing to help, of course the "internet mechanics" missed this one, but we also didn't have tools to hook up and help in person. Can't always assume the car is at fault.... Good luck, OP, the dealer should be able to narrow that down for you! Keep us posted. I didn't that all of the previous posts were worthless, just that there were a bunch of them. Regardless of the BCM activity with a too-close fob, I've never heard of this draining a battery in short order. Are SS's having issues with batteries draining in a few days with fobs too close? That sounds like a major design problem. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 A 3 amp draw should be easy to narrow down. I dont think it's a reason to lemon law the car but I understand your frustration. If they can't find anything (which I doubt will be the case) we can help you do a draw test as long as you have a multimeter with a milliamp setting. I'm not even really that frustrated. I'm an engineer so I understand crap happens. Just having the advisor say it was me is what really pissed me off. That should not be the first line of defense when a customer comes in with an issue. And I have no intention of trying to lemon it unless they can't fix it and this continues to be a chronic issue. MN appears to be 4 repair attempts or 30 days out of service. Long ways from that. But I am keeping track just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldsoda Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I didn't that all of the previous posts were worthless, just that there were a bunch of them. Regardless of the BCM activity with a too-close fob, I've never heard of this draining a battery in short order. Are SS's having issues with batteries draining in a few days with fobs too close? That sounds like a major design problem. Yeah it's a big problem for the SS lol. So much so that they recommend you put the car in a "transportation mode" if you plan on going out of town to avoid the battery draining. I won't bore you with the threads as that's going pretty off topic for the OP's post, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Yeah it's a big problem for the SS lol. So much so that they recommend you put the car in a "transportation mode" if you plan on going out of town to avoid the battery draining. I won't bore you with the threads as that's going pretty off topic for the OP's post, lol. That's absurd! I can see it draining a battery in the range of month or months, not days. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEG Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I have a 2015 3.6 and have had battery die and replaced 3 times! First 2 times the car sat for 5-7 days. The third time only 4 days. Third time was my last straw. Have the extended warranty so got a jump through Subaru and they sent third party out to jump. Guy said something is draining the battery, shouldn't happen on 8 month old battery. I drove straight to dealer and they tried to blame me for leaving my iPhone charger and radar detector plugged in. I said there is no draw as they don't get power when the car is shut off, he continued to argue with me. I called Subaru America to complain this is third battery I've had to get in under 4 years and that's not normal. I used to drive Altimas and never had to replace a battery ....except for the one that cracked and leaked fluid. Subaru of America investigated and called back to reply the dealer is wrong and there is not draw if you leave electronics plugged in and they notified the dealer they were wrong. The dealer did a drain test and came up with nothing, never even mentioned anything about amps being drawn or anything. All the dealer told me was that there are no more new batteries on the market and all are refurbished and recharged.....which I find very hard to believe. I don't have a solution for my issue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammcinnis Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 ... they tried to blame me for leaving my iPhone charger and radar detector plugged in. I said there is no draw as they don't get power when the car is shut off, he continued to argue with me. ... All the dealer told me was that there are no more new batteries on the market and all are refurbished and recharged.... Find another dealer. FWIW, both the lead and sulfuric acid in automotive batteries is recycled. When you buy a new battery, more than 90% of the lead in it has been recycled, melted down, and re-refined, but that doesn't mean that the battery isn't "new." "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 You will need the following: A multimeter with mA setting 2 small vice grips Socket or wrench to remove negative cable end Disconnect the negative terminal Vice grip one lead to the cable end and the other to the negative post on the battery Turn the multimeter on and to mA setting Make sure you leave the doors shut and monitor the reading. Most vehicles will put modules to sleep within 30 min while others can take 4 hours. I would say about an hour should be enough time to give you an idea of the draw. Start pulling fuses and leave them out while monitoring the draw. If all the fuses under the hood dont kill the draw, unhook one lead so you can open the door without blowing the fuse in the multimeter. Use a screwdriver to lock the latch, this will trick it into thinking the door is shut while you pull the interior fuses. Hint: take a picture of the fuse box so you know where the fuses go once you're all done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Find another dealer. FWIW, both the lead and sulfuric acid in automotive batteries is recycled. When you buy a new battery, more than 90% of the lead in it has been recycled, melted down, and re-refined, but that doesn't mean that the battery isn't "new." +1 There's no such thing as a refurb'd battery, in the traditional sense. Your dealer is ridiculous! With that said, I have to ask a few question: 1. Is your commute very short (i.e., single-digit miles) 2. Do you often listen to the radio or leave lights on with the engine off? 3. is there anything else that you do leave plugged in (e.g., chargers) with the key in the ACC position? You seem smart enough to know that no 12VDC sockets are powered while the key is off and out, but that doesn't necessarily mean you don't hang out at work, with the key on and charging your phone (or whatever), with the engine off. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I wonder if it could be some kind of short in the battery. I got a new battery from Subaru early last year, because at the time group 35 batteries were super hard to come by because of a long cold snap. If I let my car sit for more than 1-2 days in the late fall and early winter, the battery light will usually come on after starting the car, and go off after a few seconds. Or the battery light and brake light will come on if the car is really unhappy, and not go off until I turn the car off and on after some driving. My alternator has no problem supplying 13.9-14.2 volts under load, o'reillys tested both and claimed both the battery and alternator were fine, but I'm suspicious about the battery test results. My car always starts so I can't complain too much, but I don't know.. I just think Subaru batteries suck now. Whole reason I got one is because I was really impressed with my oem battery, but it seems they've gone downhill. I know this is not news to anyone in this section, I've read lots of complaints about the weak batteries here. *I forgot to say I did a parasitic drain test on my car a couple times, and I think it was somewhere around 20-30milliamps. I want to test it again sometime though to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 OK, an update for everyone. After some trials and tribulations not worth getting in to it appears as though the dealer believes the radio is the culprit. They have ordered a new radio but since it is Saturday they don't have an expected ETA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 OK, an update for everyone. After some trials and tribulations not worth getting in to it appears as though the dealer believes the radio is the culprit. They have ordered a new radio but since it is Saturday they don't have an expected ETA. The radio is drawing 3A while the vehicle is off!? '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 The radio is drawing 3A while the vehicle is off!? That's what they're telling me. They have seen something like this once before. I find out Tuesday how long it's going to take to get a new radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 OK, here's another update for those interested. This is going to be long, and potentially confusing, so skip if not interested. The car is back at the dealer for the 4th time. The "radio" as I called it was not the issue as the tech suspected. What I didn't realize when they told me that was what they actually said was "head unit". I did not realize some of the cars functionality went thru that unit. I thought it was just a radio. Nope. Anyway, what added to the number of the visits was that I had an aftermarket remote start installed, but I had it done after the vehicle had killed the battery twice, with me not yet not knowing there was a parasitic draw. If I had known that I would not have gone ahead and had the remote start installed. After some back and forth trips between the dealer and remote start installer I ended up having to take the entire remote start system out to appease Subaru. As I had contended, since the issue was there before the remote start was installed, the issue is not the remote start. The parasitic draw is still there even after the remote start was totally removed. The car has been at the dealer for four days now as part of visit number four. It has also been out of service for 21 days. In order to protect my interests I have initiated the Lemon Law proceedings in MN, which require four failed attempts at repair, even though visit number four is not yet over. So for those of you that provided guidance, thank you. Wish me luck as visit number four progresses. I'll let you know the ending, whether they track this issue down and repair the vehicle or if the Lemon Law process proceeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldsoda Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 wow... what a pain, sorry to hear about your experience. please do keep us posted on what happens next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capttris Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Wow, what hassle. Please keep us posted. Before my Legacy, I had a 2001 Audi A6. It was family owned and dealer maintained since new so I knew it's history and it was well maintained with ALL PM services done. it didn't matter - the car developed more issues faster than I could troubleshoot and fix them. One of the issues was a parasitic draw that was killing the battery. I spent 1/2 a day with a multimeter measuring amps of each circuit with pulling every fuse and trying everything electrical you could imagine. I ended up bringing it to the dealer and the tech determined that it was one of the 3 Aux cooling fans that had failed and the motor was causing the draw. This was one of the final straws that led me to trade in the Audi for the Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 I won’t hear more until Monday but I got a text from a service manager last night. Any idea what a “backup unit below the radio” might be? That’s where they’re concentrating their efforts now. I don’t know if backup means redundancy or backing up the vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneFore9 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 The backup unit is probably the 8" floppy drive connected to the NAV unit. Used to update the map software. They probably left the last disk (1,356 of 1,356) in during the last update. With the disk in, the drive spins all the time. Though, 3 amps sounds a little low for an 8" drive. j/k Maybe something to do with the backup camera circuitry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 It looks like there's a "telematics control unit" below the radio, and inside of that there is a battery. telematics unit https://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-SUBARU-FORESTER-2-5L-AT-COMMUNICATION-TELEMATICS-CONTROL-MODULE-OEM/233015478892 57433A battery below, I can't find an actual picture of the battery. https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2019_Legacy-36L-CVT-4WD-R-Limited-Sedan/_52016_6703012/AUDIO-PARTS-RADIO-SYSTEM-16MY-/B15-860-04.html the battery isn't listed for the 2019's yet, but here's the listing for a 2017. https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2017_Legacy-36L-CVT-4WD-R-Limited-Sedan/BATTERY---Telematics-Telematics-battery-for-audio-system/62881315/57433SG000.html I assume it's there to power the starlink system in the event of a dead battery, or some emergency situation, after an accident, etc. It probably also helps save information stored in the head unit or starlink system if the battery in the engine bay is disconnected. Maybe the battery is defective, and the car is constantly trying to charge it, not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The backup unit is probably the 8" floppy drive connected to the NAV unit. Used to update the map software. They probably left the last disk (1,356 of 1,356) in during the last update. With the disk in, the drive spins all the time. Though, 3 amps sounds a little low for an 8" drive. j/k Maybe something to do with the backup camera circuitry? What a weird joke... '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 It looks like there's a "telematics control unit" below the radio, and inside of that there is a battery. telematics unit https://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-SUBARU-FORESTER-2-5L-AT-COMMUNICATION-TELEMATICS-CONTROL-MODULE-OEM/233015478892 57433A battery below, I can't find an actual picture of the battery. https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2019_Legacy-36L-CVT-4WD-R-Limited-Sedan/_52016_6703012/AUDIO-PARTS-RADIO-SYSTEM-16MY-/B15-860-04.html the battery isn't listed for the 2019's yet, but here's the listing for a 2017. https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2017_Legacy-36L-CVT-4WD-R-Limited-Sedan/BATTERY---Telematics-Telematics-battery-for-audio-system/62881315/57433SG000.html I assume it's there to power the starlink system in the event of a dead battery, or some emergency situation, after an accident, etc. It probably also helps save information stored in the head unit or starlink system if the battery in the engine bay is disconnected. Maybe the battery is defective, and the car is constantly trying to charge it, not sure. Thanks for the link with the parts diagram. That doesn't sound like a backup module but the location sure sounds correct. Hopefully I'll learn more Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Thanks for the link with the parts diagram. That doesn't sound like a backup module but the location sure sounds correct. Hopefully I'll learn more Monday. Swing and a miss. The replacement backup module arrived and the issue still persists. The tech is going to be working further with Subaru to resolve. My case has been escalated to a "Senior" person at Subaru. The saga continues........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 A dealership throwing parts at a car Did they say they isolated the draw? Sounds like a module not going to sleep. Surely they pulled fuses until the draw went away, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me Q Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 A dealership throwing parts at a car Did they say they isolated the draw? Sounds like a module not going to sleep. Surely they pulled fuses until the draw went away, right? With the module disconnected the draw goes away. I have no idea what the module is or what plugs into it. It seems that it is something that runs thru that module but I wouldn't have a clue what that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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