mouseandcat Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Ok. Call this dealership out. Please. Matter of fact I'd call SOA just to see what they expect a dealership to suggest during a SB replacement. They may also give you the shop rates expected to pay. I think you've been taken. Be pushy. You should expect to see all the parts removed as proof as any reputable shop would do. Now my last dealership service was a long time past but the experience made me vow to never trust them again. Independents are better at it than they (unfortunalty) are if you can't perform this work yourself. dealership called back, wants $1,165 to replace the timing belt, pump, pulleys, gaskets. said parts at $700 and labor is $465. i asked if he thought I needed to change any of the belts and such, he said no, the tech said it looked fine. i pushed him on the engine being open and the rest being just bolts, not sure how he arrived at the $465. surprisingly he said well the belt is still on. I asked wouldn't it be easier if the belt wasn't on? He sorta mumbled something and i let an awkward pause go on for two seconds. since i don't have the precise knowledge about the issues coupled with a lack of confidence in their ability to address my concerns, i passed on the other work. i'll deal with it at an independent shop once warranty is up. i'm hoping they are right there isn't any oil on the belt (i specifically asked about that, not if the belt looked 'good'). and if they weren't forthcoming or couldn't tell, i hope it won't degrade the belt to the point of slipping. and certainly hope it doesn't fail and valve/pistons hit each other. i'll follow up with SOA again later next week. wish me and my legacy luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 FWIW, here's the service manual, http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/ 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Belt had to come off. So did all the tensioners for the SB service. This shop is not doing you any favors. Do you know if the belt was ever changed? If not this was the time to change all of these consumable parts. Service interval on the turbo units is 100K, not sure if it's different with NA, but probably not. BTW they can't get to the cam seal without taking off the belt and other parts to remove the left cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseandcat Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 Belt had to come off. So did all the tensioners for the SB service. This shop is not doing you any favors. Do you know if the belt was ever changed? If not this was the time to change all of these consumable parts. Service interval on the turbo units is 100K, not sure if it's different with NA, but probably not. BTW they can't get to the cam seal without taking off the belt and other parts to remove the left cover. interval for subaru 2.5i is 105K miles. i'm assuming it was done then. if replacement interval should be 60-80K, it'll be up for replacement ~ 20K more miles? i live in a condo so have covered parking but very little room and no real tools. but seems like elbow grease and the right socket wrenches could give me what i need to do the belt replacement in the garage in a 10-hour window (hopefully without hoa finding out). maybe by the time i need to replacement i'll have a better situation for working on the car. first thing i'll be doing in the new year is putting on a fumoto valve on the oil pan for easier oil changes. really paranoid about oil since the shortblock replacement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 100-105 close enough for the same. Yes. Be sure to do a couple of short changes. There are plenty of hints out here as to how to properly break in and check for issues. There are also plenty of workarounds (tool wise) doing the belt change. Only do so if you feel confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseandcat Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Intermediate update: oil leak is still not fixed. So in total I have been back to the dealer twice since they replaced the short block. Both times have been for the oil leak; both times they said it was the driver-side cam seal. It's our only car and while we don't use it daily, its a pain for me to go back, wait for word it's the cam seal, wait for the loaner, then drive back. I lose about 2.5 hours in total every time I go to the dealership. Mistakes happen, engines are complicated. First time I went back, no big deal. But second time? And now after the second time, the leak is still happening in the same two spots on the timing belt cover: I'm getting a bit irritated. The car is old and rusty but prior to the short block replacement there were no oil leaks. Suppose we take for fact the dealership's assessment that the driver side cam seal is leaking (I have no proof this is true), is there something else that could be causing the leak that changing the cam seal would not fix? I have read that the cam could be nicked or scratched while handling the seal or cam. Could an imperfection along the end of the cam cause the seal to not sit flush such that it causes a leak? From what I have read, oil on the timing belt is not good and I haven't asked them to change the timing belt and the dealership said they 'cleaned' it, whatever that means. I attached the invoice from the dealership to show the work they did last time around (with any identifying portions removed--for now). Guidance on any alternative causes of a cam seal leak will be greatly appreciated. edit 1: https://i.imgur.com/EWh6Sk8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Have you removed that plastic cover and looked to see if, in fact the timing belt is getting wet with oil ? Sounds like that seal has not been replaced ? or did I miss something in the post's above ? That seal may not have been replaced by either the new HG or the short block install. That seal would only have been replaced if the heads were rebuilt. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitexc Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 It states on the invoice that they replaced the seal and test drove the car for 11 miles with no leakage. Unfortunately, it sounds as though it needs another trip back to them , or even another dealer at this point. Explain to them that while the vehicle is older, etc, it never leaked any fluids prior to this engine repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Age doesn't matter, the seal should not leak that amount of oil in this short time. They screwed up. Call SOA and give them the invoice info and ask them for help in getting the dealership to repair the oil leak that you already paid them to fix. Worst case, call your local TV station, see if they have a person that will help with consumer problems. We have a local NBC channel that ask for consumer issues that don't get fixed. They keep a running total of the money they have saved people. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseandcat Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Thanks for the comments. I will have to talk with the dealership next week when I have time to go back to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moral hazard Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Did they put in a new PCV valve when they put in the new block? Maybe you have high crankcase pressure that's blowing out the seals. Or a tech who doesn't know how to correctly install the seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzr750r1 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Did they put in a new PCV valve when they put in the new block? Maybe you have high crankcase pressure that's blowing out the seals. Or a tech who doesn't know how to correctly install the seal. Really good point here. Report this repeated failure to SOA (Subaru of America). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouseandcat Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 Did they put in a new PCV valve when they put in the new block? Maybe you have high crankcase pressure that's blowing out the seals. Or a tech who doesn't know how to correctly install the seal. Update 2019-02-01: I dropped the car off again at the dealer, was out of town so couldn't do it earlier. The rep said he was confused as to why it kept leaking. I told him that as a lay-person I thought it was either: (1) incompetent install (2) leak through the cam seal is a symptom of another problem I asked and the rep said the last two times it was the same tech that installed it. I let them know that I dont really use the car and that they should take their time to explore causes of the leak through the cam seal. I also let them know that each time I saw a leak the day or two after driving it back home and that they should test drive the car more than 10 miles they have been since I live 10 miles away (leak may 'start' around 20-30 miles). An aside: as I waited outside to hand my keys off, I saw a parked, new-ish crosstrek with a rear passenger flat tire. I watched as a technician/rep get in, start it and head past me towards the garage. As he passed I asked if he thought they should put a spare on before driving it. He said 'no, that's how the customer brought it in.' It probably wasn't more than 1/8 mile and going slowly, so minimal chance of damage? but I figured in a controlled setting, why not just put a spare on? That struck me as odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Looks like you should find another shop to do your work if they have that kind of oddities going on. As for your oil leak - some seals are "double lipped" some are "single lipped" and the single lipped can be installed backwards so that they leak in one direction even at minor pressure but not the other. Pics below for illustrative purposes only. Double Lip: Single Lip: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttnio Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 they need a technician that knows or loves to work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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