Derive Fined for Allowing OBD2 Disabling, Cobb next?

[covertrussian]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/09/after-market-car-tech-firm-sold-363000-emissions-cheating-devices-doj-says/

 

On Monday, the US Department of Justice (DOJ) announced a settlement with an after-market car technology company called Derive Systems. Derive was accused of selling 363,000 devices that could defeat the emissions control systems of any car. The settlement called for Derive to spend around $6 million correcting its sold and unsold software to prevent further emissions tampering, as well as pay a fine of $300,000.

 

 

Looks like even having the option to disable OBD2 emission protocols was enough to fine them, which means Cobb is probably gonna take away the ability to disable rear o2 sensors too.

[whitetiger]

didnt fully read the article, but if the company disclaimer states for off-road use only, does that get around the law?

[covertrussian]

My thoughts too, but they didn't mention "off road use only" clause. Looks like simply because it's a setting in the software they are fined. Which means any other tuner that gives you access to those settings will be impacted by this too

[whitetiger]

Doesn't cobb mention for off road use only? especially for stage 2 tunes which require removal of factory emissions equipment(cats), something technically illegal for on road use, anyways?

[covertrussian]

Their page for V3 doesn't say anything about on road or off road use: https://www.cobbtuning.com/products/accessport/subaru-accessport-v3-ap3-sub-004

 

Now technically you don't have to bypass any cats for stage 2 tunes, you can still buy an aftermarket downpipe with two cats. It's the single cat downpipes that are in the gray area, since EPA doesn't allow you to relocate to a new location, or remove any.

[covertrussian]

I'm not too familiar with Derive, but one of the comments shed more light:

 

The reason they went after this company is because their claim to fame was making it so that you could "roll coal". They explicitly said this in their advertisements. They didn't go after them because the fuel map could be changed, but because the whole purpose of their tuner was bypass emissions and spew out billowing clouds of black smoke.

 

I hate roll coalers and sadly because of them a precedent has been set for all other companies offering tuners.

[relative4]

Makes one think twice before buying a downpipe with the lower O2 bung upstream from the cat requiring the P0420 to be disabled.

[utc_pyro]

It appears the EPA going after the "Roll Coal" crowd, and particularly people advertising the stuff they sell bypassing emissions. The latter is big in the diesel scene, they got emission controls well after gas cars and seem to think they are taking away some fundamental human right.

 

Cobb, Hondata, ARP, Ecutek, ect don't really advertise that they can turn off emission controls. Hondata even has CARB approved tunes, so it's possible to tune and play nice with the emissions.

 

Annoyingly there is NISMO ECU for the Nissan Leaf that increases the output by performance by ~10%. You cant import it due to the EPA. These issue will still exist even after we're all electric.

 

 

Makes one think twice before buying a downpipe with the lower O2 bung upstream from the cat requiring the P0420 to be disabled.

 

 

I wouldn't worry as much as your AP isn't connected to the internet, and Cobb isn't actively updating tunes for our cars any more requiring an update. But Cobb might remove disabling the codes from OTS tunes and lock that to Access tuner Race in the future.

[covertrussian]

Problem is Cobb might be afraid of giving the option to disable O2 sensor, or any CEL's due to this ruling now, even for off road crowd.

 

My Nissan ECU actually can't disable anything OBD2 related (even CEL's) for this reason, the authors were afraid of EPA cracking down on them.

[GrimmSpeed]

Makes one think twice before buying a downpipe with the lower O2 bung upstream from the cat requiring the P0420 to be disabled.

 

You're going to find that the placement of the bung doesn't matter when you're talking about nearly all high flow aftermarket cats. Their efficiency doesn't match the OEM, and you'll get a code regardless. Defeating it mechanically is the inexpensive and easy alternative.

 

Chase

Engineering

[covertrussian]

I thought anything above 150cel count was still fine? Or are the newer (32 bit) cars more sensitive to it?

[relative4]

You're going to find that the placement of the bung doesn't matter when you're talking about nearly all high flow aftermarket cats. Their efficiency doesn't match the OEM, and you'll get a code regardless. Defeating it mechanically is the inexpensive and easy alternative.

 

Chase

Engineering

 

I've found that the high-flow cat in my new Cobb downpipe is effective enough to pass the Colorado sniffer test. It will probably remain that way a substantially shorter time than an OEM downpipe, but with "coal rollers" ruining it for everyone else, it's possible that convenient loopholes such as P0420 disablement may start closing, raising the "pay to play" prices.

[utc_pyro]

You're going to find that the placement of the bung doesn't matter when you're talking about nearly all high flow aftermarket cats. Their efficiency doesn't match the OEM, and you'll get a code regardless. Defeating it mechanically is the inexpensive and easy alternative.

 

Chase

Engineering

 

I know aftermarket ones aren't as effective, but my cheap ass CNT downpipe went for 6 years and ~85K miles before I needed to disable the code. There is a lot of tolerance in the system.

[GrimmSpeed]

Ours are 300 cell, and it really is hit or miss regardless of generation. I personally don't have a problem with it either (old GS catted DP, 04 FXT), but some people do have issues. And honestly I see it mostly on newer generations, but it still seems extremely scattered, so its hard to apply any "rules of thumb" here.

 

Regardless I'm still going with the "Everything is fine - on fire.jpg" route, while pretending not to be a little worried about our future as modders. No use in worrying just yet.

 

Chase

Engineering

[m sprank]

Derive is just the first. They now have the EPA blessing going forward. But not in Cali. I have all their internal memos and releases to dealers. It is heart breaking and maddening.

 

The EPA now has a model to follow. All others will have to abide to survive.

 

Cali has been crushing manufactures, distributors and retailers. Offroad use carries no weight. The responsibility is with those who make/market/sell and install.

 

If it keeps going the end is near. It was a deciding factor in the closing of Infamous Performance.